All That's Left of Zenn Is EEStor Speculation and Hope

30 Comments

When Darryl Siry, former Chief Marketing Officer for electric car maker Tesla, calculated the “implied value” for secretive ultracapacitor maker EEStor at over $1.5 billion, based on the entirety of Zenn Motor’s market cap, he was being somewhat cheeky. But the reasoning behind the calculation is the reality: The Canadian electric vehicle maker has given up on its previous car business and placed its entire fortunes on the promises of EEStor.

Last month Zenn CEO Ian Clifford told reporters of his change in strategy, and that Zenn would no longer plan to sell its own higher-speed electric vehicle (the cityZENN car), and would also “shift focus away” from the low-speed electric it currently sells. While Clifford has had this vision of an “Intel Inside model” with EEStor for awhile (selling the ultracaps for other companies’ cars the way Intel’s chips are used in many companies’ PCs) he had not yet let the world know that he was trimming away any part of the company not based on the EEStor technology.

So, as Siry put it, that announcement was “a moment of clarity for Zenn – recognition that the entire value of the company lies with its speculative bet on EEStor’s game changing technology claims, and not with the expected value of its now abandoned car business.” Hence the equivalent of Zenn’s stock and market cap with EEStor’s hoped for value.

Clifford, readily admits that fact, and tells Toronto Star reporter Tyler Hamilton in an article this week:

The entire aspect of our business model is dependent on EEStor commercializing that technology. . . The transformative moment is with the commercial proof, and then the whole tenor of the discussion changes to the excitement about the reality.

Clifford says he is now in “the same waiting game as everybody else,” and just waiting for the delivery of the first commercial unit from EEStor before the end of the year — so about two and a half months from now.

During a lunch a few months ago Siry and I were chatting about how some of the entrepreneurs and investors he and I have worked and talked with in Silicon Valley have such an unbelievably high tolerance for risk (notably his former boss Elon Musk). I remember both of us grimacing at the thought of being under that kind of pressure of raising and losing millions. Clifford must be feeling that kind of pressure every day at this point — with the added stress that he has absolutely no control over the situation.

30 Comments

Rob

It seems to me that those who trash eestor online may be the ones
playing the eestor lottery and hoping to lower the price before
thier buy in – just a thought.

Kevin

Yeah, Rob. It’s only a big conspiracy that keeps Zenn stock price down as all the bashers snap up the discounted shares, because they all see ZNN as a potential gold mine, not a piece of garbage.

I follow that same reasoning when I buy cars. I check the consumer reports, and pick the worst ones, because those are secretly the best ones. That’s why I always just laugh at passing motorists when I’m standing at the side of the road wrenching on my Chevette. I know that I really have the better car.

Kevin

I think Clifford is in a position that’s all to common with CEOs. Either he’s really bad at his job and wasted all his shareholder’s money on EEStor without proper due diligence, or he’s a white collar criminal who knows that EEStor has nothing, but continues to mislead gullible investors to prop up the share price.

The market cap of Zenn is a paradox. It’s as high as it is because the EESU is so unlikely anyone can pick up a few hundred shares as lottery tickets. However, that’s also the tip-off that this whole story is a sham.

The opacity of EEStor and Zenn makes very little sense. With any real proof that the EEStor material has the properties they claim, Zenn and EEStor would instantly be worth billions.

Mr. Bill Clinton

I don’t know how you can tell my posts have anger…if you view telling the truth about EESCAM as showing anger, I would say that is your problem.

There is nothing to be upbeat about Zenn and EESTor. They have been scamming investors for the last six years. Dick Weir CEO of EESCAM has been living off investors money the last 20 years. The last two business’s Dick was involved with went out of business and lost millions for it’s investors.

BTW-I did identify myself. I am Bill Clinton from California. There are several Bill Clinton’s residing in this state. If you don’t believe me, that is your problem. Would you believe me if I put a bag over my head and write a blog about EESCAM?

Mr. Bill Clinton

Ms. Clinton Nash

Ulterior motives are an interesting thought. I cannot tell you what mine are other than to express my thoughts about ZENNN and EESTOR, thoughts that are upbeat and expectant. Your posts are clearly tinged with anger and sarcasm and you don’t identify yourself. That makes me suspicious. No way to sell any idea, a thought or even attract the opposite sex, in my book.
Once again you correct me and I concur; the EESTOR and LMT agreement is to provide an EESU that will fit into pockets on the vest. LMT will presumably hire folks who will physically insert the EESUs into the pockets. You are right twice, and now you have split ends!
By the way, my brother is named Bill and my name Clinton did come from the Arkansas governorship, but in 1853. Sarcasm just is not the best way to go…

Mr. Bill Clinton

Ms. Clinton Nash is spreading lies to pump Zenn/EESCAM. LMT (Lockheed Martin) has no such contract with EESCAM to produce an electrified vest for our soldiers in combat.
Ms. Clinton Nash, why don’t you go spread your BS on the blogger with the bag over his head, Baghead’s site. They will buy your baloney there.

Ms. Clinton Nash

Such hostility is not necessary. You are right, poser, I stated contract; the correct term is agreement. Please split the hair for me. And by the way, it was interesting to read the news in the LMT employee rag.

Mr. Bill Clinton

Ms. Clinton Nash,
There is no “agreement”, nothing, nada between EESCAM and LMT to produce an electrified vest for our soldiers in combat, which leads me to believe your ulterior motive is to pump EESCAM.

FYI-EESCAM’s Dick Weir and Carl Nelson hasn’t been able to produce anything in the last 20 years except HYPE, PRESS RELEASES and WAIT TILL END OF YEAR BS, and that I know is to be is.

Rick

IMO, the real issue is mass producing and commercializing a product (EESU) that works in the lab. Too often this is the most difficult & time consuming process. It is fraught with failures and competitors that beat them to the market.

EEStor has NO choice but to hold their product close to the chest until they figure out how to mass produce it efficiently, with quality and in quantity.

This why Dick’s conversations are focused on the production of the product. I believe that he has a working model. He just needs to be able to produce them and that is the tough part.

Driving around with 3,500 volts and 50 kwh in under your hood or on some utility line is dangerous to say the least. Mass producing something like this without getting sued out of existence for product failure is real hard.

Peg

Rick-
I’ve been following EEstor for a while and must say that your
explanation of the situation is the most reasonable I have heard.
Thank you for the enlightenment.

Ms. Clinton Nash

Right on, Rick! I like what you say. Not only does ZENN have to figure out how to retrofit the EESU to a variety of vehicles, they have to standardize the plugin fittings (plural) that will go on the vehicles, standardize the instruction manuals for the shops that will retrofit the vehicles, find the manufacturing facility that can produce with speed and efficiency the EESUs, and so on. The logistics of gearing up for such an enormous enterprise is surely daunting at the minimum. How would a cross country trip be feasible in an electric car unless the ability to plug in and recharge were available at all gas or recharging stations? Who will coordinate that once all cars are retrofitted with EESUs? I can just imagine the stampede once the EESU is produced and announced. Not only will ZENN profit from the retrofitting, but the almost 11% interest in EESTOR will yield big numbers once all things electric use the EESUs, including the electrified vest that LMT (Lockheed Martin) has contracted with EESTOR to produce for our soldiers in combat, such as my Army PFC son and Marine recruit daughter will use.

Brad

It is far better to wait for an EESU to be delivered to Zenn and tested to see if it works, than to invest now in Zenn stock. Znn.To is up and down like a toilet seat. The non-authorized disclosure of Dick Weir’s phone call sent the stock up from $4 to $6 in a few weeks. Now if Weir had a public interview and expressed the same time frame, then we would have something viable. But do we really believe everything Dick Weir said in his off the record phone call he made to an investment house to hype his battery? I think DW actually believe the things he said on the phone. Whether he can deliver on them is another question.

Will EEStor deliver on time? Probably not. I wonder what odds the bookies are giving on EEStor meeting the Dec 31st deadline? 2:1? 3:1?
We will all know in 71 days one way or the other.

Brad

Steven Bell

Back to the main topic…what about Lockheed? They also have a contract with EEStor?

I can’t deny that it looks fishy but I think we’re all just dying to see something like this really happen and experience in our lifetime the effect this would have on our society, economy and geopolitics.

We’re kind of stuck in an in between state where the collapse has been averted and the recession may be over but we’re waiting for the next big thing to come along to psychologically drive the next period of growth and prosperity.

Mort

I found out a little to late that eestor was a scam. I wish zenn luck but I had to part ways with eestor.

Ms. Clinton Nash

Will the real Mort Topher please stand up, because a real Texan would never drop a comment like that and not present credentials, a 10 gallon hat or a pair of spurs.

waltinseattle

what i first locked onto and have been thinking over…and seeing some hints elsewhere that its a real phenom, its not just my cynical/hyperobservant take on Zenn …is this.

They quit manufacturing and went for the packaging and marketing. They went for the lean and they eschewed the cash intensive fabrication and all that old economy tedium.

They decided they were valuable for being there and not for doing the grunt work of delivering goods. They wanted to be in the ivory office with the view, and not on the shop floor when the bad days “happened.”

Which is fine. But the angst is that this is so prevalent in post industrial america, this belief that we can get rich by 1. selling how to get rich books, 2. get rich selling merchandise we never have to buy, see or ship(as heard often on radio) or other variations on bill and teds excellent corporation.

Maybe I’m being too hard on Tesla Inc. Never met the persons. Its just this thing that seems to pervasive in “business” now we don’t do industry so comfortably. Anybody else share the perspective ?

Steven Bell

I COMPLETELY second that.

I worked for a company that manufactured showerheads for major retailers like Lowe’s and Home Depot. They were under constant and intense competitive pressure, especially as China developed. However, they were very agile and the owner had impeccable instincts in product design and aesthetics. They could have gone on forever developing new products every few years, charging a fair margin and outsourcing after several years of forced price reductions.

Unfortunately the VP of Ops I worked for developed exactly the attitude that you’re describing. He had the neat idea of saving a few cents on product development by having a company in China develop the key injection molds. Then he reasoned “if they were doing the molds why not supply the parts?” Then when the parts didn’t fit together he reasoned they should supply the assemblies. The next thing you know, he’s pitching the owner of the company that they should be a “marketing” company and a “virtual manufacturer” ie. a purchasing department.

I don’t know where they got the conceit that Lowe’s and the others wouldn’t have the intelligence to go directly to our Chinese vendor and cut us out once we weren’t really adding any more value to the process…

I completely agree with your point – a company has to add some sort of value to deserve to exist.

Steven Bell

and yes…I don’t work there any more because they no longer exist :(

Rick

There is a significant difference. Zenn provided the startup capital. Your company didn’t. Zenn has the rights to whatever product EEStor produces. Your company didn’t. Zenn took the risk. Yours didn’t. Your company gave away their product.

Baghead Brendan

“NOW IN THE SAME WAITING GAME AS EVERYBODY ELSE”

Ian Clifford must have amnesia. Can someone remind Ian he/Zenn has been in this “waiting game” since 2006 for EESCAM to deliver:

“[ZENN president Ian Clifford] He is confident that EEStor will pull the wraps of their mysterious “battery” very soon; his exact word was “imminent” and that I could, in fact, hold my breath for their announcement. “(Bill Moore, EV World, November 29, 2006) http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1145

EESTOR “to deliver production units, the end of calendar 07, they appear to be on track with that” from Ian Clifford’s mouth. YOUTUBE video September 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rpkLLRK8c

Penny Gruber

In 2004 FGC ( Zenn before the name change ) chose as their partner a ridiculous hydrogen from zinc and acid scam called Alternate Energy Corp. AEC was pitching the idea of hauling around tons ( yes tons ) of water, acid, and metal pellets to generate hydrogen on demand. No AEC did not deliver either. Who but just about anyone with even a very modest science education would have known that using expensive and heavy refined metals and water is a completely impractical and uneconomical way to fuel a car? FGC would have us believe that they never had such thoughts.

007

Moved on from debunking Steorn now have we Penny. Having a crack at debunking EESTOR for kicks these days I see.

Penny Gruber

Steorn’s own jury put the final nail in Steorn’s coffin. Don’t tell me you still believe in that scam.

Mark

EEStor, are playing a loosing game. They have been working on this for years now an they haven’t given even the slightest tadbit to show they have anything. I expect something to appear in Wikileaks saying it was all a scam.

Jonathan

My bet is that EEStor doesn’t deliver by the end of the year. They have failed on so many deadlines.

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