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	<title>Comments on: YouTube Infrastructure Costs Vastly Overestimated: Report</title>
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		<title>By: Bloggasm &#187; The perils of predicting the profitability of internet companies</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473053</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bloggasm &#187; The perils of predicting the profitability of internet companies]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 03:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] some of which claim that YouTube is losing massive amounts of money while others estimate that it&#8217;s actually pulling in a profit. YouTube is much closer to breaking even than widely thought, says a firm with intimate knowledge of [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some of which claim that YouTube is losing massive amounts of money while others estimate that it&#8217;s actually pulling in a profit. YouTube is much closer to breaking even than widely thought, says a firm with intimate knowledge of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Analyst: YouTube Could Turn a Profit in 2010</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Analyst: YouTube Could Turn a Profit in 2010]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] with one analyst estimating that the unit could lose as much as $470 million in 2009 (though others refuted that number) &#8212; Google has been relatively pleased with the trajectory that YouTube has been on, at least [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] with one analyst estimating that the unit could lose as much as $470 million in 2009 (though others refuted that number) &#8212; Google has been relatively pleased with the trajectory that YouTube has been on, at least [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473051</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Do you know where I can buy you tube video&#039;s on dvd for dvd playing machines ?Those from 2007-2009 .?.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know where I can buy you tube video&#8217;s on dvd for dvd playing machines ?Those from 2007-2009 .?.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: john glenn</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473050</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Great article.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I wonder what&#039;s going to happen when energy costs go through the roof.  You may not believe it but its coming.  Soon!  Real Soon!&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.</p>
<p>I wonder what&#8217;s going to happen when energy costs go through the roof.  You may not believe it but its coming.  Soon!  Real Soon!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Citi Now Agrees YouTube Can Reach Profitability Soon</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Citi Now Agrees YouTube Can Reach Profitability Soon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] holding a call with RampRate, the IT services analysts who&#8217;d recently declared that YouTube&#8217;s costs were vastly overestimated, Citi issued a note saying it agreed. Google [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] holding a call with RampRate, the IT services analysts who&#8217;d recently declared that YouTube&#8217;s costs were vastly overestimated, Citi issued a note saying it agreed. Google [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Pirate Bay: Distributing the World&#8217;s Entertainment for $3,000 a Month</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473048</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Pirate Bay: Distributing the World&#8217;s Entertainment for $3,000 a Month]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473048</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] around $3,000. Compare that with recent reports that put YouTube&#8217;s bandwidth costs anywhere between $130,000 and a million dollar per day, and you&#8217;ll understand why I haven&#8217;t been able to get that [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] around $3,000. Compare that with recent reports that put YouTube&#8217;s bandwidth costs anywhere between $130,000 and a million dollar per day, and you&#8217;ll understand why I haven&#8217;t been able to get that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Google: YouTube Will Soon Be “Very Profitable” &#171; Klickabletv: digital media news</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473047</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Google: YouTube Will Soon Be “Very Profitable” &#171; Klickabletv: digital media news]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] estimating that YouTube could lose $470 million this year, however an infrastructure research firm disputed that report, saying the bank had underestimated Google’s ability to minimize [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] estimating that YouTube could lose $470 million this year, however an infrastructure research firm disputed that report, saying the bank had underestimated Google’s ability to minimize [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Google: YouTube Will Soon Be &#8220;Very Profitable&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473046</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Google: YouTube Will Soon Be &#8220;Very Profitable&#8221;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473046</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] estimating that YouTube could lose $470 million this year, however an infrastructure research firm disputed that report, saying the bank had underestimated Google&#8217;s ability to minimize [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] estimating that YouTube could lose $470 million this year, however an infrastructure research firm disputed that report, saying the bank had underestimated Google&#8217;s ability to minimize [...]</p>
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		<title>By: YouTube dobler til 2GB for opplastede filer &#124; Timepoint.no</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[YouTube dobler til 2GB for opplastede filer &#124; Timepoint.no]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] I dag tjener Google penger på partnerprogrammer og innholdsannonseringen fra Adwords som går på YouTube. Økonomer har lenge ment at YouTube er et tapsprosjekt pga høye båndbredde utgifter, men nå nesten halverer en ny rapport disse kostnadene. Les mer på NeewTeeWee [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I dag tjener Google penger på partnerprogrammer og innholdsannonseringen fra Adwords som går på YouTube. Økonomer har lenge ment at YouTube er et tapsprosjekt pga høye båndbredde utgifter, men nå nesten halverer en ny rapport disse kostnadene. Les mer på NeewTeeWee [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Destin</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fred Destin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;It is clear to me that YouTube can indeed negotiate free peering agreements.  They are certainly building large POPs and buying some dedicated links for peak usage, where off peak can be used for standard free peering agreements with the carriers.  I think this is a safe assumption.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I am on the board of a large video sharing company and I can assume the following with confidence: I would be VERY suprised if  YouTube were spending more than 50 cents per thousand videos streamed on their run-of-the-mill short videos, and the cost is more probably 25-30 cents.  On a global CDN their commit rates probably allow them to cover Asian traffic &quot;for free&quot; etc leading to averaging down the overall cost.  Assuming they are streaming indeed $1bn videos per day their bandwidth costs should be somewhere between $90M and $180M -- which fits the above estimate.  Very back of the envelope.  The Ramprate estimate looks flattering to me but the CSFB analysts were clearly looking to grab headlines.  Hardware opex also looks insanely cheap: I think CSFB&#039;s guess is much better here and indeed there has to be some DB and so on.  Transcoding falls under hardware kit and is dirt cheap.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;By contrast I would also be amazed if the company really cost $300M to run including content deals.  If they have 300 folks, salary costs cannot be more than $45M which leaves a LOT of juice for content deals.  On balance, $400M feels like a worst case estimate to run this business.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If they did make $200M last year, you can hardly see them doubling this in 2009 (these kinds of volumes NEED direct selling if you want a decent rate card, even for YT / G).  So $300M topline ?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Probably still losing money but closing the gap fast.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Once they are breakeven, the world can then quietly assess the full extent of what just happened to broadcasting !&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is clear to me that YouTube can indeed negotiate free peering agreements.  They are certainly building large POPs and buying some dedicated links for peak usage, where off peak can be used for standard free peering agreements with the carriers.  I think this is a safe assumption.</p>
<p>I am on the board of a large video sharing company and I can assume the following with confidence: I would be VERY suprised if  YouTube were spending more than 50 cents per thousand videos streamed on their run-of-the-mill short videos, and the cost is more probably 25-30 cents.  On a global CDN their commit rates probably allow them to cover Asian traffic &#8220;for free&#8221; etc leading to averaging down the overall cost.  Assuming they are streaming indeed $1bn videos per day their bandwidth costs should be somewhere between $90M and $180M &#8212; which fits the above estimate.  Very back of the envelope.  The Ramprate estimate looks flattering to me but the CSFB analysts were clearly looking to grab headlines.  Hardware opex also looks insanely cheap: I think CSFB&#8217;s guess is much better here and indeed there has to be some DB and so on.  Transcoding falls under hardware kit and is dirt cheap.</p>
<p>By contrast I would also be amazed if the company really cost $300M to run including content deals.  If they have 300 folks, salary costs cannot be more than $45M which leaves a LOT of juice for content deals.  On balance, $400M feels like a worst case estimate to run this business.</p>
<p>If they did make $200M last year, you can hardly see them doubling this in 2009 (these kinds of volumes NEED direct selling if you want a decent rate card, even for YT / G).  So $300M topline ?</p>
<p>Probably still losing money but closing the gap fast.</p>
<p>Once they are breakeven, the world can then quietly assess the full extent of what just happened to broadcasting !</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Thyaga</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thyaga]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I have no idea how long google will be able to  subsidize youtube users by paying for the infratructure. Google paid $1.65 b for youtube in Q4 2006. Looking back, it was a great exit for investors in youtube. This may turn out to be a bad investment for google investors.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea how long google will be able to  subsidize youtube users by paying for the infratructure. Google paid $1.65 b for youtube in Q4 2006. Looking back, it was a great exit for investors in youtube. This may turn out to be a bad investment for google investors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Liz Gannes</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz Gannes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Hi Dan, this report leaves all of Credit Suisse&#039;s other estimates the same (see &quot;content &amp; overhead&quot; in the chart), and just adjusts the infrastructure costs. As for Google execs&#039; comments, we feel confident saying that their infrastructure costs have been overestimated. But we wouldn&#039;t publish comments that are off the record.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dan, this report leaves all of Credit Suisse&#8217;s other estimates the same (see &#8220;content &amp; overhead&#8221; in the chart), and just adjusts the infrastructure costs. As for Google execs&#8217; comments, we feel confident saying that their infrastructure costs have been overestimated. But we wouldn&#8217;t publish comments that are off the record.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan Rayburn</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Rayburn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;One other note, execs I&#039;ve spoken to at YouTube say they are spending at least $500K a day on bandwidth/peering, which would put their yearly total at $182M, which is double the RampRate estimate and half of the Credit Suisse estimate.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other note, execs I&#8217;ve spoken to at YouTube say they are spending at least $500K a day on bandwidth/peering, which would put their yearly total at $182M, which is double the RampRate estimate and half of the Credit Suisse estimate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan Rayburn</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Rayburn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;The numbers on all of this can be debated many ways as no one truly knows. But, talk to any Google exec off the record about YouTube and they will all tell you that YouTube is no where near close to breaking even in 2009. They are very clear about that.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, while many want to debate YouTube&#039;s bandwidth and hardware costs, what about their content licensing costs? Transcoding costs? Database costs? That&#039;s something the Credit Suisse report included but I don&#039;t know if this one does or not. There is more to YouTube costs than just bandwidth&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The numbers on all of this can be debated many ways as no one truly knows. But, talk to any Google exec off the record about YouTube and they will all tell you that YouTube is no where near close to breaking even in 2009. They are very clear about that.</p>
<p>Also, while many want to debate YouTube&#8217;s bandwidth and hardware costs, what about their content licensing costs? Transcoding costs? Database costs? That&#8217;s something the Credit Suisse report included but I don&#8217;t know if this one does or not. There is more to YouTube costs than just bandwidth</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jon Smirl</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon Smirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Can someone explain why Level3 and AT&amp;T would peer with Google for free? Peering is about the symmetric exchange of traffic volumes. There is no way Google&#039;s traffic is anywhere close to being symmetrical.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe Google can construct a balanced load by pairing YouTube traffic with web crawling.  But they Google would still fail the second part of a peering agreement which is for the connected networks to increase each other&#039;s connectivity.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s nothing in this for Level3 and AT&amp;T so why would they do it? Instead they can charge Google for the bandwidth and collect a pile of money. There&#039;s little Google can do but pay the bill.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain why Level3 and AT&amp;T would peer with Google for free? Peering is about the symmetric exchange of traffic volumes. There is no way Google&#8217;s traffic is anywhere close to being symmetrical.</p>
<p>Maybe Google can construct a balanced load by pairing YouTube traffic with web crawling.  But they Google would still fail the second part of a peering agreement which is for the connected networks to increase each other&#8217;s connectivity.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing in this for Level3 and AT&amp;T so why would they do it? Instead they can charge Google for the bandwidth and collect a pile of money. There&#8217;s little Google can do but pay the bill.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Finance Geek » Wild Primate Attacks TechCrunch Writer</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/video/youtube-infrastructure-costs-vastly-overestimated-report-2/#comment-473038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Finance Geek » Wild Primate Attacks TechCrunch Writer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newteevee.com/?p=26748#comment-473038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] YouTube isn&#8217;t as expensive to run as you think [NewTeeVee] [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] YouTube isn&#8217;t as expensive to run as you think [NewTeeVee] [...]</p>
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