Watch Out iPad, Honeycomb Has 16 Tablet Apps!
The tablet war between Apple and Google is only just getting warmed up, but it’s going to take time before it becomes a full-scale conflict. Apple’s iPad has a good 10-month head-start over Google Honeycomb tablets, the first of which became available only yesterday. Motorola’s Xoom is the initial soldier in the Android army, and other Honeycomb tablets from LG, Samsung, Acer and others will soon enlist. So we’re sure to see a regiment or two join up with Android, but you can’t win a war solely with infantrymen. You need supporting personnel as well, and in this case, that means third-party developers. We’re only in the second day of the siege, but a quick scan of the Android Market shows a scant 16 tablet apps.
It’s great that the new Android Market has a section highlighting Android apps for tablets, but the shelves are definitely a little bare. There’s a good reason for this: It was only a few weeks ago that Google released the software toolkit for developers to write Honeycomb tablet apps. Mobile app programmers simply haven’t had time to digest the new features — and the APIs to use them — in Google’s operating system for tablets. However, I suspect there are actually more than 16 apps optimized for tablets. The Earthquake app, for example, is tablet-optimized, but doesn’t appear in the list above. Perhaps developers need to mark their app as “tablet ready” for inclusion this area of the store.
The tablet apps I’ve used — CNN, Pulse, Cordy and Accu Weather, among others — all do take advantage of the larger screen and new controls that Honeycomb provides. So from an end-user perspective, these apps are on the right track to help Google tablets compete against the iPad. There just aren’t enough of them yet, and that means potential buyers will primarily judge devices based on apps designed for the smaller screen. Unfortunately, the experience is generally a turn-off for some of the top-tier titles right now. Facebook’s home screen looks silly due to tiny icons on a relatively huge display. Twitter’s text is small and hard to read. And even the popular Angry Birds game appears slightly less crisp and more blocky on the Xoom’s 1280×800 resolution display. Both the native Google Books, as well as Amazon’s Kindle app do work well, so the e-book reading experience, at least, is solid.
accuweather
Will developers adjust their software to run on Google tablets? Of course they will, although Google should have worked with key development partners to have apps ready in advance of the first Honeycomb tablet launch, like Apple did. That didn’t appear to happen, so fixing the situation now is going to take time and effort. This means Android won’t win (or even be competitive in) the tablet war in the short term. For the time being, Apple and its 60,000 iPad apps (as of last month), have a huge lead in terms of developer and consumer interest. Google’s going to have to put much more effort into mustering the troops if it wants to be more competitive in the tablet wars.
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Oh that irony…
Well the truth it that Android has already about a 120.000 apps.
That’s ALL apps that are developed according to Google’s guidelines. They fully scale on a tablet. We could check this for month now with the Galaxy Tab.
And it’s NOT a simple pixel scale like on the iPad where you have a 2xbutton, but a real scale, like a window on the computer you make bigger.
And this isn’t new. It’s since Android 1.6 came out. So, plenty of apps will run just fine on any tablet size. Welcome to future oriented dev-kits.
I agree that many of the apps scale well – most of them are pretty solid on my 7-inch Galaxy Tab. But take a look at the Facebook screencap from the Xoom in the post. It looks ridiculous in my opinion.
Facebook is a $70 Billion company (according to some ridiculous evaluations). If they don’t want to have scalable thumbnails in their Android apps, that’s not some kind of argument any blogger should be able to use. Ridiculous to think by facebook as example.
Android 1.6 SDK introduced scaling apps for medium density screens. 10.1″ 1024×600 is medium density, even 10.1″ 1280×800 qualifies as medium density.
Android has many more scalable apps compared to iOS!! And stop the BS. Android Froyo Tablets are much better than iPad. Honeycomb is just a huge step up and the first real tablet OS ever designed. With design features in the OS that are not simply scaled up from smartphone.
Charbax…
You mention to “stop the BS”, then state the biggest BS I have yet to hear lol! Froyo tablets are much better than the iPad?? What world are you in?
Consumers should take Charbax’s statement for what it is: BS. Wait for iPad 2 which will be announced in a week on March 2nd. Don’t waste your money on a beta $800 tablet that is mediocre and named “Xoom”.
(@correctu) He is living in the real world. Lets not get it twisted, Although Honeycomb is the new flagship OS from Google, Froyo is still lightyears ahead of Apple’s dumbed down iOS for Ipad. Give me a Froyo tablet and I will use rockplayer to play every single video format known to man (even video formats for apple) without so much as a hiccup. I will download bit torrents, and use psyclone to calculate complex atmospheric psychrometric problems. I will use MixZing to play any audio format I choose including uncompressed wave files. I will use “where” to get the location of every store, restuarant, night club and movie theater in a 30 mile radius, use google navigator to take me there, and do it all at the same time while watching Avatar and pausing the movie between skype calls. Oh yeah, and don’t even get me started on DLNA and the crazy shit you can do with that. Don’t knock the Froyo OS until you have actually USED it, Dummy. And just think, all you got out of this post was: “What the hell is psychrometrics?”
Stop making excuses for Google. The current tablet apps are far too few. This will change quickly but the simple fact is that the 10 inch Android tablets will lack apps that are truly at home on this format for many more months. Scaling up is not sufficient. iPad apps, for example, take advantage of the screen real estate in their menu formatting, use of new UI features, etc. We DO NOT want Android app developers to think that their phone optimized apps can simply be scaled. I’d bet that iPad users rarely use 2X scaled apps. It was simply for some short term backwards compatibility. The hardware OEMs have been ready to launch for several months and it is surely disappointing for them that Apple will get to release it’s 2nd generation product when their first Gen (Honeycomb) tablets have so few apps built for them to go head to head in demos.
A few points about the “reviews” for the Motorola Xoom (not just on this site).
1. Rush to production/unfinished product/rough around the edges:
This is a first generation product. It will have a few bugs, just like the iPad did when it launched, and let us not forget that the Xoom & Honeycomb are implementing much more than the iPad did–a totally unique UI for a tablet Vs a scaled up iPod Touch iOS, standard ports-USB & HDMI Vs none for the iPad, dual cameras Vs none for the iPad, expansion slot Vs none for the iPad, dual-core processor Vs single for the iPad. All these things add additional coding. In a perfect world it would all work perfectly first time out of the gate; however, that just doesn’t happen and I’ve never seen it happen with a mobile Apple product–seems each generation has its issues.
2. Price:
At $800 it seems a little steep till we stop and compare it to a top netbook or the iPad. A good netbook will be around $350+ and most likely won’t be able to handle 1080p & graphic heavy games as the Tegra 2 can–due mostly to Intel mucking up the GPU side of things. This also has a HD camera, add a few more bucks for that. It uses solid state hard drive, add a few more for that. Add a few more for the 3G/4G, and some more for all the little things–gyroscope, accelerometer, barometer, etc . . . and we can see where the price starts to come in especially if it’s high quality.
Certainly I would like it to be much cheaper but Motorola apparently sees this product as comparable to an iPad and the price is similar, but with *much more kit.* If it’s high quality it will always cost more. And we have already seen some very cheap tablets. . . and there are some good inexpensive Android tablets, the Nook Color to name one, and more coming.
3. Apps:
Honeycomb can utilize any app that was properly designed in the first place without looking all wonky–like how the iPad displays an iPhone app as phone size or 2x with massive pixelation. Honeycomb does a much better job here; therefore, many apps won’t need to be “tabletized” for Honeycomb.
Furthermore, the argument about apps is old, tired, and faulty. This argument has been used by Apple & Apple fans against every device that has come to market since Apple has gained a substantial number of apps (90% of which are junk or bookmarks) however, Android still succeeded. And let us remember that Steve Jobs said they didn’t need apps because the iPhone had a great browser. Well, this is even more true for Honeycomb. Facebook app!? Twitter app!? There’s an app for that in Honeycomb. It’s called the browser! And with that in mind there are tons of apps available to Honeycomb out of the box, all outside of the market and mostly free ;)
There are lots of apps already available to be very productive with Honeycomb and all app stores are filled mostly with poor apps leaving maybe 10% decent apps. . . so enough with the 10K apps for x, y, or z. Does anyone know anyone who has 10k apps installed on a device?
4. Ease of use:
This argument is invalid. Easy to use is case specific. Honeycomb is easier to use for someone that needs information at a glance where iOS would require you entering and exiting multiple apps thus more difficult to use.
We may call iOS simpler but not necessarily “easier to use.” And simpler does not in any way necessarily mean better but rather, at least in this case for iOS, less flexible with less features, comparatively speaking. Yet, people will choose which one they needs based on their use case scenario and whichever one they choose they will still have to learn the device and OS.
5. Functionality
It seems overlook by all reviewers how much more functional Android can be than an iOS device for one specific reason–you can dock an Android device to a keyboard AND MOUSE. This makes Android easy to use with a proper dock for any type of document editing. Spreadsheets come to mind to just mention one that is a nightmare to use on an iPad.
Normally I don’t say much about product reviews and I tend to avoid the “Apple arguments” all together; however, there has been such bias in reviews as of late that I felt a few things needed to be pointed out. Reviewers of products ought to first substantiate the product on its own merits in relation to version, build quality, what it can do & not do, etc. . . and only after doing that should they venture into the comparison realm realizing that comparisons are relative to the specific user (yes Kevin, you are generally very good with this) and are generally only meaningful when comparing hardware as any reader can glean what an OS is like from a good review. Far too many reviews are coming across these days as, “it isn’t the way Apple did it therefore it’s not as good.” Well, here’s a news flash. . . seems the majority of the world is OK with doing it different ;)
For all the Apple fans, please don’t take this as a bashing of Apple or its products and turn this into a flame war. It isn’t about that. It’s just pointing out that the current reviews (not just on this site) on the Xoom are tending to be more about “Vs iPad” than about the Xoom & Honeycomb. Tech reviews have gotten ridiculous with the “Vs” reviews before even detailing the product. . . and the “__ Killer” has got to stop. No one cares other than the tech sites writing this stuff–it’s just flame bate an everyone knows it.
The general public reading your reviews wants to know about the device, in-depth. Not whether or not someone thinks it will outsell something else. If you do an in-depth review of the iPad & the Xoom without mentioning each other in the other review I’m certain the reader will come to their own conclusions about what each product can and can’t do, and they will choose the product that fits them the best. And maybe, just maybe, we will have more civility on the net concerning Apple & non-Apple products.
Question to you Kevin. . .
On Honeycomb’s multitasking, when you hit the button to go into multitasking there appears an arrow pointing down yet I haven’t seen a single reviewer tap it to see if the open apps scroll or not. Instead I’ve only read that the open apps will not scroll and you only can see the last five which would be odd. Please tap that down arrow when you go into multitasking, thank you.
All great points! As to your question on multitasking: I’ve tapped that soft button many, many times over the past few days. The down arrow simply “closes” the multitasking window view – it doesn’t scroll through recent apps. And to clarify: in landscape mode, it shows the 5 most recently used apps. In portrait mode it shows 7.
Thanks!
Personally, I consider not being able to go through all open apps a significant oversight.
I also think they should have a “kill app” link next to each app. Hopefully more will be coming quickly. . . honeycomb is barley out of the womb.
BTW, since Honeycomb runs a full version of Chrome can’t you install “Chrome web apps” and Chrome extensions? A few thousand of each, not that any are that great ;)
If so, then it seems like the tablet version of Android will begin to leverage Google’s next push for cloud apps–portable native client–as well as normal apps.
“[..] 1. Rush to production/unfinished product/rough around the edges: [..]”
This, in my opinion, was directed at the failed delivery of said key specs (SD Slot, 4G, Flash) and in no way says the production or quality of said device/OS.
It doesn’t matter if the features will be “included” in future releases or future patches…the fact is that this, whether in its first installment or not, did not come, fully functional with everything promised is what will put a damper on people’s decisions.
Too many people/sites are trying to compare this against the iPad and, to me, isn’t exactly a fair comparison since the iPad came out quite awhile before. If it took a company that many months to come up with a worthy competing product, you’d bet it should, in all respects, be that much better than the compared product. So, for all my opinions about the Xoom, I’ve reserved myself to not compare (trying very hard) it against anything except itself and its promised feature list.
Consider this: if you were to buy a car that said it’ll have power windows, power door locks, heated seats, and remote starter but when you got the car, it has this little piece of paper telling you to bring the car back to the dealer in three weeks to “upgrade” your manual door locks to power and that your windows, remote start, and seats will require a software update in a few weeks. How would you feel? Personally, I’d feel cheated.
So, all in all, while the Xoom shows promise, it still failed to deliver in all promised features.
No argument if a product claims x, y, or z and then doesn’t have it. . . that’s bothersome, and no one likes bugs. . . but I haven’t used a computer product yet that doesn’t have a few even after years of being on the market.
Flash, clearly stated in the add that it will be available with a future update.
4G. . . stated that it’s an upgrade later.
SD slot I don’t think was mentioned anywhere and that’s not right.
These types of “upgrades” are normal with many products. I don’t think Motorola was necessarily trying to hide anything or “get one over on customers,” though they probably could have been clearer with their communication–seems to be a Motorola issue.
Purchase a car and the salesman says we’ll throw in a free stereo upgrade but you will have to bring it back next week for that as they aren’t available today. Should you be made that you have to bring it back for that upgrade? Of course not, you know it’s an upgrade.
The key is that you know in advance of purchase. With most things about the Xoom we know before purchase–Flash & 4G are later upgrades, it’s a first generation device, it’s a first gen UI, etc. . . certainly anyone reading this site and other tech sites would know these things. The general public? Not sure how clear sales people are about these things and not sure if the “average user” would complain or think it’s normal.
The SD slot is definitely a dropped ball from what I’ve seen and read.
About Android outselling iPhone 2 to 1…
About 75% of ‘Android’ sales are in Asia and cost less than $120 full price. What do you think these phones deliver? The Internet? Not.
So, apples to apples, iPhone will outsell >>smartphone caliber<< Androids 2 to 1 through 2012 at least.
Wait for it.
@pk de cville
Don’t know where you are getting your facts. .
2010 ~67 million Android handsets were sold.
Of those 10 million were of the Samsung Galaxy line–a rather high end phone. Right there we are below your percentages and we haven’t gotten to the big sellers of 2010, HTC & Motorola.
Keep the dream alive with whatever delusional “facts” you need to make you sleep at night. . . wait for it. . . Android over 120 million sold in 2011 ;)
Oh, btw. . . sorry Apple can’t provide a reasonable product for the majority of the world. Since that is the basis of your argument.
Time for some corrections:
1) Re: “It will have a few bugs, just like the iPad did when it launched”
What bugs? There was nothing but kudos in reviews for the iPad when it first came out.. The Xoom is shoddy product.
Keep in mind when talking feature specs that you are comparing Xoom to the iPad that was made a year ago. In only a week, iPad 2 is being announced and features will be a plenty with an ecosystem that is already available.
2) $800 for an Android tablet is simply laughable. Why settle for an iPad ripoff when the iPad is cheaper (at a $500 price point) and the second iteration (iPad 2) is being announced this March 2nd?
3) Apple has 60,000 iPad applications (not to mention the 300,000+ applications that are on the iPhone & are iPad compatible)… Android tablets have 16 applications total. Seems Google spent more time astroturfing these websites rather than gathering developers.
4) The first time I landed my hands on an iPad, I was using it right away. There is NO learning curve whatsoever. And with your “insight” as follows:
“And simpler does not in any way necessarily mean better but rather, at least in this case for iOS, less flexible with less features, comparatively speaking.”
Please tell me how iOS has less features when ANDROID ONLY HAS 16 APPLICATIONS IN TOTAL! Your disinformation is very telling. I call astroturfing on ya.
And finally 5) Regarding your tidbit:
“It seems overlook by all reviewers how much more functional Android can be than an iOS device for one specific reason–you can dock an Android device to a keyboard AND MOUSE.”
Apple since day one of the iPad’s inception had available a keyboard that the iPad can dock into. The whole point of having a touch input device such as a tablet is to not have a need for a mouse. Your input on this matter is very telling.. and shows you are either a paid shill, or you have never experienced an iPad in the first place. (I’d place my bets on the first one)
Regarding “Far too many reviews are coming across these days as, “it isn’t the way Apple did it therefore it’s not as good.” Well, here’s a news flash. . . seems the majority of the world is OK with doing it different ;)”
Who? The two dozen Xoom sufferers who have 16 applications to play with. Heres a newsflash, and I reiterate with gravity here: iPad has 60,000 applications and counting compared to just 16 for Xoom.
Please don’t confuse consumers that don’t want to waste money on a product that isn’t ready for sale (i.e. Xoom)..
On March 2nd, iPad 2 is going to be unveiled. Funny how you don’t touch on this fact. Smart consumers will wait for iPad 2.
Wow. . . so many remarks that go right at the heart of what I was speaking about. Apparently just too many people like yourself are zealots these days and common sense leaves the building.
Android smartphones currently outsell the iPhone 2 to 1. Windows has 90% of the desktop market. Apple? So, apparently the majority say loud and clear that they are find with the non-Apple way of doing things.
Android features Vs iOS features — these are OS features, not apps and apps, especially on iOS, do not add OS features. . . you know, like true multitasking, widgets, file management, etc.
iPad WiFi ring a bell?
The rest of your rhetoric isn’t worth replying to and honestly I thought long and hard about bothering with this bit, but you are so off base it needs a little clarification.
lol! Look who’s calling who a zealot Mr. A few points…
We’re talking about tablets, right? Apple’s iPad owns 93% of the tablet market. Windows is losing market share to Apple’s Mac OS X in the desktop market. Check the trends.
Applications add features to your tablet. Widgets and file management belong on a desktop computer. Consumers don’t want that clutter on a tablet (the tablet market share numbers show this).
Your response doesn’t have any traction. Wait for the iPad 2 to come out on March 2nd.
“Keep in mind when talking feature specs that you are comparing Xoom to the iPad that was made a year ago … Apple has 60,000 iPad applications (not to mention the 300,000+ applications that are on the iPhone & are iPad compatible)… Android tablets have 16 applications total.”
So we shouldn’t compare the Xoom to the 1st gen Ipad-a fair point-because the Ipad is almost a year old, but we should compare the 60,000 Ipad applications, which accumulated over the past year, to the 16 Xoom applications that accumulated over the past day?
A little consistency and fairness would be nice here. I’m considering both the Ipad 2 and the Xoom and I must say, the vitriol from Apple fans toward anything that isn’t Apple is a real turn off. For individuals so certain that Apple products are always going to be better, you guys sure do waste a lot of time commenting on Xoom and Android articles.
…”Android smartphones currently outsell the iPhone 2 to 1. ” (below)
This myth seems to be permeating more and more blogs and sites, so much that many people are actually starting to seriously believe it.
In every market where the iPhone exists on more than one carrier, it is outselling all Android devices combined by a healthy margin. In the US, in recent months, its sales numbers have caught up to the iPhone (and we aren’t counting other iOS devices here), but since the Verizon iPhone announcement, Android sales volume has been dropping noticeably, in anticipation. Earlier today, Verizon Wireless CEO stated that the iPhone launch was by far the most successful launch in carrier’s history (which is amazing, considering that the model is eight months old at this point, and is competing against brand new 2011 Android models).
I can completely understand the need of Android zealots to see their favourite platform succeed. But thinking and wishing it doesn’t actually make it so.
You guys can argue back and forth all you want about which one is better. But at the end of the day Joe Smoe is only going to see 1 thing. Price. Not too many people are willing to go into another contract along side their cell phone so that they can get a Xoom at $600 and even less should be willing to spend $800 for it off contract. Especially when you consider that they all look similar to an iPad, the average consumer will recognize this as imitation even if only on a subconscious level. Before the iPad there was nothing, then after the iPad there was a bunch of devices that looked very similar. Society has been programmed to defer to What they perceive to be original, and authentic. That is why you don’t hear people saying “no, this is actually a fake Rolex, I just like it for the design”. Even though logically that would be very acceptable. Last year this time the argument on one side was that the iPad will never sell beyond the early adopter/small-apple-diehards. This year it is that the competitors have better specs. But when its brand new tech it always comes down to one thing. Price.
If you don’t agree, it doesn’t matter, in a few weeks time we’ll have Q.E.D.
@correctu
” Apple has 60,000 iPad applications (not to mention the 300,000+ applications that are on the iPhone & are iPad compatible)… Android tablets have 16 applications total.”
According to all the reviews I’ve read, Honeycomb (Android 3.0) has the same ability to scale all of the current Android apps to the Xoom’s larger screen. It’s quite convenient for your argument that you failed to mention this fact. Therefore, your claim that Android has 16 applications total is outright false and misleading.
@A few points…
“These types of “upgrades” are normal with many products. I don’t think Motorola was necessarily trying to hide anything or “get one over on customers,” though they probably could have been clearer with their communication–seems to be a Motorola issue.”
No they are not. These sorts of upgrades (non functioning SD, FLASH as a feature but not yet available, etc) are NOT normal upgrades. The 4G is marginally OK as an upgrade depending on why the issue exists.
Motorola wanted to be first out the door and also be out before iPad2. Plain and simple, Motorola could not wait to finish the device and decided to release it early to be first on the block.
Once again, IT IS ABOUT USER EXPERIENCE in this market. Apple has shown that and they are masters of that. It is not about feature lists and bullet points. Motorola has not heard and is still being run by techies and MBAs. They should have waited until they had a solid product that provided a great user experience.
Please see my post below–the key for me is battery life (which makes the Xoom a weak option for people who want to purchase a tablet)
What amazes me is people making excuses for the Xoom. Why? Is Google sending you a check to defend their half-baked excuse for a tablet?
Seriously, you’re making excuses for a product that costs WAY more, requires $20 from Verizon before you can even use it, has an unproven and very new OS and has but 1/60,000th of apps available for it.
If there was a brawl over who’s crazier about products I’m pretty sure Apple fanboys would be trumped by the blind dedication of Android sickos as I’m sure if the shoe was on the other foot you’d be harping on Apple being too much and offering nothing. Instead you find every possible reason to defend a product that’s made a horrid first impression.
You have told one lie after another – from the claim there is no difference between iOS for the iPhone and the iPad to the claim a handful of apps is equivalent to 60,000 apps to the claim the Xoom is of “better quality.”
iOS for the iPad is specifically designed to implement attributes of the tablet. The majority of iPad apps are useful. There are fewer unserious apps for it. But, it is not true that 90% of the apps for the iPhone are detritus, either. And, the all aluminum and glass design of the iPad is higher quality than the largely plastic Xoom. It, like Mac laptops, is durable and elegant at the same time.
Truth of the matter is Apple would likely spend more money manufacturing an iPad than Motorola does for the Xoom, but for the fact it can buy the components at the best price because it dominates the market for touch screens, aluminum casing, flash memory, etc. So, Apple can sell its products lower priced with a respectable margin.
I understand the strategy of ignoring someone who goes on at length telling tales because that person is clearly not rational, but will still debunk the worst of this nonsense.
Yeah, the amazing Android/Honeycomb tablets are just wiping up the iPad left and right, say the Droidtards. They compare a brand new Motorola Xoom to a year-old iPad and they think they’ve got some hot property. Android tablets don’t have spit when it comes to tablet optimized apps. Honeycomb itself is nothing but immature and barely past beta tablet OS. Big deal, so it’s got lots of widgets and customizable home screens. Like as if most non-tech consumers need that crap. I hope that when the iPad 2 is introduced it kicks the crap out of all those wannabe Android tablets. It’s really annoying to listen to how all these vaporware Android tablets are going to take over the tablet market in 2011.
It’s not going to happen because there aren’t even enough components to go around. If Apple has already cornered most of the displays (60% supposedly), what’s that going to leave for the rest of the tablet vendors? 40% divided by a half dozen major tablet vendors. Not much in the way of component supply for Android tablets.
I hope consumers stay smart and go with the iPad since it’s already proven itself to be highly usable and reliable in many sectors of business. Definitely, consumers will be guaranteed good customer service from Apple. Most of these tablet vendors just rushed and threw together some hardware without even giving it much thought and they think they’re all going to come up with iPad killers. That’s some rather deluded thinking on their part.
I think the part about non-tech customers wanting the “crap” that is widgets and customizable homescreens is completely untrue. Whats so difficult about looking at the screen and having the info roll in without having to open an app that it requires a tech-oriented consumer.
What a lot of us in the Apple world fail to understand about “AndroidAdmiration”, is that Google is providing them with open source software devices that they can play/with, tinker/with, customize and otherwise give them freedoms that they cannot get from Apple.
Just my take,
Harvey
And a bad take at that Harvey since it’s based on nothing. You can play, tinker and customize iPads, too.
This is in response to correctu.
The point I was making was about an open source experience.
I am one of the tinkerers. I tinker and customize my usage on my iPodTouch well beyond Apple’s ability to impose limitations.
One of the rages going on now is over Apple’s imposing content control on iOS devices. I control content on my Touch. Apple has no ability to control that. I have a browser and a DropBox.
If what I said has no meaning to you, that doesn’t mean it has no meaning. After all, I said:
Just my take,
Harvey
“What a lot of us in the Apple world fail to understand about “AndroidAdmiration”, is that Google is providing them with open source software devices that they can play/with, tinker/with, customize and otherwise give them freedoms that they cannot get from Apple.”
Here’s my take. The sample to which you refer represents less than one-tenth of one percent of people who use any type of computing device.
Good luck with that.
NYScientist,
I clearly stated “otherwise gives them freedoms that they cannot get from Apple”.
The vast majority of computer users in the world use Windows. They are used to having huge freedoms of choice in OEM’s competing feature sets, form and usage choices. They live their their computing lives in “freedoms that they cannot get from Apple”. Where do you get that they are less than one tenth of one percent of all people who use computing devices?
Google/Android is giving them all of those choices I just said. The only real difference is that it isn’t the Wide World of Windows now.
Just my take,
Harvey
@Harvey Gartner
Windows users are tied into MS. Most Windows users don’t use Windows because of any alleged “Freedoms”, but because their friends use it, or they use it at work, or that is basically all they know, or they are seduced by the “low price” they see at Wal-Mart or Target or Best Buy on a “Windows” machine. NYScientist is correct: the percentage of people who care about the “alleged” “Freedoms” you talk about is very very small compared to the smart phone using public and is not enough alone to drive the Android market. And do you really want Android to be the “Windows” if the smart phone world? A race to the bottom and a feature war with features no one really cares about (as line items — they may care about what those features can do for them but that is not what you read when you hear about Android — you get the actual HW feature list as the selling point). The geeks and modders are the vocal Android fans but are a very small minority of actual purchasers and are not enough to drive an Android economy.
I really want to know how Apple is imposing content control? I have a browser on my iPhone as well and Apple make no efforts to control what I look at. Same in the YouTube app. (They are only controlling the in-app selling of content to take a cut — they are not controlling the content and apps are free to sell content outside the app).
There are people who will buy Android based tablets. That is fine. New competition is always good to drive innovation on all sides. I do not feel threatened in the least as an iPhone/iPad user by Android successes. Xoom and Honeycomb undoubtedly have good points and features that will appeal to some groups of people and they will make good use of it. That in no way diminishes my iPad experience.
In some ways I’m combining your two posts here.
I compare the world of Windows and the world Of Android as being similar because they are both licensed to multiple OEM’s.
I don’t accept that Windows was a “race to the bottom”. Take laptops, for instance, I can walk into a Best Buy and see competition at the bottom that include prices and quality in the 300/400 $ range. I also know that Windows laptop competition includes Sony VAiO’s that cost a small fortune. In no way, to me, a “race to the bottom”. The Windows world includes competition across huge differences of cost, quality, form, function,etc. HP makes desktop number crunchers that go over the top of a MacPro. You’ll pay for that power and quality.
I live almost totally in an Apple world. I bought a mac mini with Snow Leopard Server and gave it to one of my nieces to run so we can have a family “cloud”. 5iPhones, 3 iPads, MacBooks, PowerBooks, MacBookPros, two iMacs, 1 MacPro, 7 AppleTV2s, AirPortExpresses, etc and growing as more family members come in. My computer is a MacBook and I chose an iPodTouch 3G 64GB for my hand held. I’m entrenched in Apple.
I also applaud what Google is doing with Android. It insures wide ranges of choices in the “handheld/tablet competition that is going on now. If the competition is iOS vs Android, the choices begin, for me, with open or closed philosophies. There are clearly two. Google’s and Apple’s. There are others trying to get in. None offer any effective competition now.
If there exists competition between Google and Apple, I don’t quite see it that way. For me, Apple only competes within Apple. Google is giving their product for free. Not a very good corporate philosophy to add profits to their bottom line. Google is doing what they’re doing for other reasons. The competition I see here is between the licensed OEM’s, themselves, and their attempt to compete with Apple.
The “alleged” freedoms I was talking about seem obvious to me in a Windows world. Freedom to chose form factors, usage factors, prices, feature sets, build qualities, OEMs, etc. Those freedoms of choice are real to me even if they are only “alleged” to you.
In this new paradigm that I call handhelds/tablets, Android is providing OEMs to pick and choose for themselves what their product is. There will be many choices delivered. Some will have USBs, some will have HDMI, and on and on. There is going to be a wide range of choices, which I equate with freedom of choice. Apple limits choice. For me, neither is right or wrong, only different. Others see this differently.
As to Apple controlling content on my Touch, they can’t. I can get any content to my Touch. What Apple can control is whether or not that content comes thru the elegant use of an App or not. Not the content itself. I control that.
The Xoom is being sold and soon we will be hearing of actual user experiences. I think many will like or even love it. Motorola is a company whose radios and phones I’ve used for a very long time. They may or may not have a successful product in the Xoom, but I see no way for it to have sales comparable to the iPad. Xoom comes attached with a Telco. Apple is selling wi-fi iPads like crazy. Xoom not offering anything but a promise to deliver. I see that as very limiting inre iPad. Also other OEMs to compete against some time soon. If I had to characterize Motorola’s chances, “iffy” comes to mind. I wish Motorola success, I’m just doubtful.
I admire Apple’s way. I admire Google’s way. I’m not looking for winners and losers, I’m looking for successes and failures.
Just my take,
Harvey
@Laughing_Boy48
“Yeah, the amazing Android/Honeycomb tablets are just wiping up the iPad left and right, say the Droidtards.”
Laughing Boy, this is known as an ad hominem argument and is a classic logical fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
“It’s really annoying to listen to how all these vaporware Android tablets are going to take over the tablet market in 2011.”
Tell me, do you scold other Apple fans-or yourself-for constantly talking about the Ipad2? How about the Ipad3? (Cnet already has articles that discuss both). As far as I know, neither one is available for purchase. Moreover, no one even knows for sure the specs of the Ipad2. If the Android tablets are “vaporware” because they haven’t yet been released or finalized, how is the Ipad2-or Ipad3-not vaporware?
Vaporware is generally considered a derogative term, and applying it to all future Android tablets is a logical fallacy known as “Poisoning the well.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
What’s sad is that you actually make a few good points in your post. Honeycomb is definitely closer to beta than finished (based upon my actual experience with the product), and Apple does have an advantage with parts, as it is well known that they purchased large quantities of parts. Of course, some of their parts suppliers are also “vaporware” android tablet makers, such as Samsung.
“That’s some rather deluded thinking on their part.”
Logical fallacies are deluded thinking.
Of course, 99% of android apps barely work on android phones – hence, while the telcos are willing to give away free android phones to lock in contracts, actual android users barely download or use many apps (android 13% of the app market) so most android developers are not even going to bother to scale up apps in a market that is slightly larger than the RIM & symbian marketplace.
As Samsung discovered there is no android tablet market outside a few thousand rooters and DIYers – as Moto will discover in the next month. The android tablet market is in the $99 to $349 market, otherwise android linuxers will just buy a PC netbook to wipe at $399. They clearly distain a media store (ripping or p2p movies & music) and don’t use the android app store so what exactly is the point of a android tablet? Even the best reviews point it’s not a robust OS, the inconsistency of widget, apps, zoom, rotation, battery life, etc, etc … and add to the fact there is no one sync, no one media store and no one app store + 16 apps … who exactly wants to buy an android tablet for more than $349?
So, like the mp3 market where there is no telco subsidy, people who have to pay with their own cash choose the ipod, in the tablet it will be the ipad taking 90% of the revenue market share and about 75% of the overall market share – leaving the 100 android, RIM, WIN 7 and WebOS sellers to fight over who gets to $99 first and the remaining 25% of the market.
There will be the ONE, the ipod or ipad and the rest … and as Apple adds more CDMA phones and LTE phones in 6 months, Moto is already pegging their android sales at a much lower rate. Android’s free ride of no iphone competition is over and once China Mobile 600 million customers can buy an iphone, the playing field will be level. Android will certainly grab symbian shares as telcos will pay zero versus $20 to symbian but consumers already know, android is a nice free mobile Os but not the best. Android development will fall even further behind as Google has to vet that each new line of code is not based on code that belongs to Oracle or Apple going forward. Android has essentially peaked.
It’s fine to have a differing opinion, but please, don’t debase the conversation with such major inaccuracies:
“99% of android apps barely work on android phones” Simply not even close to true. I’ve been using Android devices for 14 months and rarely have a problem with apps working.
“As Samsung discovered there is no android tablet market outside a few thousand rooters and DIYers” How exactly did they discover this? They took a non-tablet OS and still were able to sell 2m units to carriers with a 2% return rate. We don’t know exactly how many of the 2m were sold, but I think it’s more than a few thousand.
“They took a non-tablet OS and still were able to sell 2m units to carriers with a 2% return rate. ”
Pure BS.
How can anyone take someone seriously when they state that 99 percent of Android apps barely work on Android apps?
You know you can just run Facebook in the browser. It’s quite nice. You may want to select the full site option since Facebook ids the Xoom as an “Aria”. (You’ll notice there’s no Facebook app for the iPad either)
Try a Google search.. there are quite a few Facebook apps for iPad unlike the Xoom. Friendly Plus and Facely to name a couple.
You miss my point. Why would I need an app?Facebook.com works perfectly fine in the browser.
Why would you need an app? Because it is much faster, simpler and easier to tap on the Facebook app and get there, rather than opening browser, looking for the bookmark, waiting for the facebook page to load before anything can be done.
There are many myopic people who don’t realise that the browser paradigm has already peaked, and most of the services we used to get through the browser will get their dedicated little apps. Much more faster, efficient, elegant and reliable.
@Predrag
You know you can create a bookmark to any website like Facebook.com on the homescreen? Exactly no more work nor any faster than launching a magical app.
If there were any advantage to having a native Facebook app on the iPad don’t you think they would have made one?
I guess Zuckerberg and I are both myopic!
“If there were any advantage to having a native Facebook app on the iPad don’t you think they would have made one?
I guess Zuckerberg and I are both myopic!”
Please read what you are replying to… there are Facebook apps. And they’re on the iPad. The advantages of these apps are explained quite well by Predrag above.
XOOM allows for Adobe Air and Flash, which means it already has far more apps then the entire iOS eco-system.
?????
I tried googling for AIr and Flash app, and I couldn’t find any. All I could find are web sites that use Flash. Obviously, a web site is NO app. You can’t tap it and get there right away; you have to open a browser, find the bookmark, wait for the page (and the Flash code) to load, before you can do anything. An app resides on your device and loads immediately. The difference may be semantic to some, but it is fundamental.
Android in the long run will fail. On both phones and tablets. The biggest reason is the fragmented user experience. Android phones are designed and built to fulfill feature checklist, not to provide a user experience that solves the customers problems. Addiionally, each manufacturer changes the UI so that there is no single Android experience. Lastly, the manufacturers have little incentive to provide regular OS updates as they make no money on that and the pissed off customers belong to the carriers so there is no direct pressure for updates. The manufacturers would rather sell you a new phone. How many Android phones are there out there still running 2.1 and have no 2.2 update available even though 2.2 has been out for months? All of this leads to a sub-optimal user experience. The above issues are Aldo likely to affect tablets as well.
Apple creates and designs to the user experience first, not a feature checklist some marketers made up. This is why Apple products have become the benchmark that others try to emulate and beat. But they don’t understand that the complete user experience I the magic potion. They think betting the feature list of th iPhone or iPad is what will bring them success.
And to whoever said that 90% of iOS app are junk or placeholders or bookmarks: you have no idea what you ar talking about. Not every app is rated an A of course but the rich selection of apps that are meaningful and useful to some subset of customers encompasses most off the App Store.
I stopped reading your comment after the first line… Pure idiocy…
Sorry “Get a clue”, I do have a clue. In the long run, Android will fail for the very reasons I gave. Your trite one line reply with no refutation of my points is telling. You cannot refute so just blather on about idiocy.
iPhone, a single device by a single manufacturer, is outselling the Android system from all manufacturers combined, in most of those markets outside the US where it is available across multiple carriers. In the US, Android from ALL manufacturers across all carriers barely was beating the iPhone on one carrier. Now that the iPhone is on Verizon (and likely T-Mobile and Sprint in the future with an iPhone 5 device or latest iPhone 6 device in 2012), we’ll see if Android can keep it up. Already there are reports that Android sales are dropping on Verizon and Motorola has already released lowered forecasts. That after just the 8 month old iPhone 4 came out on Verizon. That has nothing to do with what will happen when the iPhone 5 shows up this summer.
The fact is that Android phones are being sold as “throw away” phones by most manufacturers and carriers, with little or no updates to the OS being made. The manufacturers cannot afford to waste money porting Googles latest release to their older phones and the carriers cannot afford porting that to their system. They make no money on that. And they have to sell you new phones. Apple’s whole focus is “user experience” and with a single evolving device it is easy to keep last years devices updated since the device is similar enough to the newly released device that the software can keep up and it also does not need to be ported from a reference release.
Tinkerers and hobbyists rightly like Android. But there are not enough tinkerers and hobbyists (or emotional based Apple haters) around to support Android across all the manufacturers and carriers that need it to succeed. The rest of the world just expects the phone to work, be updated as needed, and to provided a consistent experience across handsets (ie, when you upgrade to a new one). This is to say nothing of the usefulness of a complete App Store with vetted (most likely secure) apps that people trust and buy. (Compared to the wild west Google market filled with copyright infringing content bombs, malware infested apps, ringtone placeholders, etc. so that finding the useful apps that are there [and there are useful apps] is harder and more dangerous.)
The average Joe consumer does not mod his phone (and even most tech people don’t either actually — I am a long time SW developer and also run a hosting business using open source unix and I don’t mod my phone by jailbreaking etc) nor tinker with it. He uses it as a phone, consumes media, email, surfs, and plays games or uses other apps he finds useful. All of which are iOS strengths. (With that I am not saying Android cannot do those things — what I am saying is that tinkering is not high on the list of most users so the assumed advantage of that is irrelevant).
I hope Android does well because competition is good for everyone. It pushes Apple to make improvements and innovations more so than they would if they were sailing alone. But in the long run (lets revisit this in a few years) Android will be a commercial failure.
I do have to correct a few sentences though.
“Aldo” should be “also”. “I magic potion” should be “is the magic potion.” “They think betting the feature list” should be “They think besting the feature list”. My bad typos at 1:30am typing in bed. Sorry, eyes to tired to notice.
Will manufacturers’ differential makes them difficult to run?
Yes I too think it’s unfair to compare this tablet with the iPad. It’s a worst tablet even though it came 10 months *after* the iPad… It’s not fair, but the iPad, like the iPhone, came first in their respective categories, so it’s always been an endless catch-up game for Android to follow iOS… And there’s still a lot to improve in the apps department as the above review clearly states… It’s not fair, the iPad is simply the best one out there ;)
@Neven Orwitz
Wow…the tribalism invoked by Apple brand loyalty (and to some extent Droid as well) is truly disturbing and on clear display throughout these comments. Neven, there are several tablets scheduled to be released throughout 2011 besides the Xoom. My guess is that you are already convinced that the Ipad is better, even though you haven’t tested or compared (through reviews or in person) these tablets with the Ipad. I think it’s time for you and others on this thread to look in the mirror and ask yourselves whether this is truly the way to form an intelligent opinion about something-gadgets or otherwise. As I said above, I’m interested in the best tablet for my needs, whether it is Apple or a different company. I’m exploring all my options and considering everything. I’ve read lots of comparisons over the past few weeks. To say that the Xoom is a “worst” tablet than the Ipad isn’t even fair. It’s intellectually dishonest, as is Correctu’s comment that it is a “shoddy product.” A Droid fan who completely discounts the huge volume of apps available for Apple products is similarly dishonest. Let’s gain some perspective here people. These are corporations who have one main goal-to get our money. Turning the purchasing of tech gadgets into an in group/out group shouting match is just plain stupid.
You hit it on the head. It’s about what will work best for you however, it seems these days that that isn’t acceptable. You must use an Apple product or else. Some Android fans are coming off the same these days, sad.
That was my main point in posting something. . . that a review would serve us (the readers) best if it was in-depth about that device instead of an attempt to get clicks or a flame war going by introducing “Apple” into the headline. Just as this article has turned into.
A title like “Watch Out iPad, Honeycomb Has 16 Tablet Apps!” servers no purpose other than to start a flame war. It’s not even accurate. Sure, 16 apps may be listed in the app Market as tablet ready but that does not mean there are only 16 apps that are fully functional for an Android tablet. I honestly don’t expect titles like that from Kevin, techcrunch and engadget yes.
Other sites dedicated more to Android served up that same information with titles like “The wave of games continues for Android tablets.” It can be positive or negative depending on your perspective. It doesn’t have to be flame bate.
Personally, the Xoom doesn’t do much for me, though I am impressed with Honeycomb and agree that bugs need to be fixed asap. One of the major features to a good tablet is a good docking system, IMO. For me something like Asus’ Transformer is a much better fit however, I realize that is my personal preference and for others they may not want or need a dock, keyboard, or anything else other than the tablet. Secondly, I rarely every buy first generation products–they almost always have issues, but again that’s my personal preference.
I guess I just got a little tired of articles like this one, and flame wars like this one. . . anything that has Apple & Android in the title turns into a ridiculous flame war and those readers wanting to have an intelligent conversation in the comments generally can’t.
As you say “Turning the purchasing of tech gadgets into an in group/out group shouting match is just plain stupid.”
@A few points. . .
You’ve made some good, cogent points on this thread. Yes, I see Droid fans doing this too sometimes, but it seems to be particularly pervasive in the Apple fan community. Anyone who doubts this should simply scan the comment sections of any Engadget or Cnet article that concerns Apple or Google.
I looked at the Xoom on launch day and really like Honeycomb, but it does seem to have a few bugs that need to be worked out. Overall, I was impressed with the hardware and software, but just couldn’t get myself to spend $800 on it without the sd card or flash working. Also, I wasn’t too thrilled about having to send it back to Motorola for 6 days to do the 4g hardware upgrade.
@lordfenriz
Droid fans swarm Apple articles just as much and spew anti-Apple stuff (as do MS fans). It is just part and parcel.
I agree with your points. . . I wouldn’t purchase the Xoom in its current state unless I was a developer or loved flashing the ROM. And I’m accused of being a shill?!?!?! I also think the price is a little steep, partly due to the carriers, but that’s Moto’s choice and mine to say, I’ll wait for the Asus Transformer, thanks. Luckily people that want a Honeycomb tablet will have 30+ to choose from over the next year–I can’t wait for Tegra 3 to get out, quad core mobile goodness.
Sadly I know what you mean at engadget, techcrunch is as bad–constant flame wars. That’s why I don’t frequent those sites any longer. Sadly a few from TC have made there way here. For some reason some people just can’t let any comment or article mentioning Apple go by without some insulting statement, thus my statement below about zealotry–they’re just gadgets and competition will improve all gadgets. iOS no doubt has improved because of Android competition and vise versa, not to mention the hardware improvements largely due to Android’s open adoption among hardware manufacturers.
@Chadbag
“Wow…the tribalism invoked by Apple brand loyalty (and to some extent Droid as well)…”
“Yes, I see Droid fans doing this too sometimes…”
From my posts above. True, droid fans can be just as nasty. It’s sad really.
“In the long run, Android will fail…”
I wish I had your crystal ball. It would make my life much easier.
@lordfenriz
Regarding the crystal ball. I wish I had one too! I could make a killing in the stock market.
In another set of replies in this article I laid out while Android will eventually be a failure. The reasons are mostly commercial. Success is not assured the cool technically great solution. That is what Android is. While I personally believe iOS is the better technical solution under the hood SW wise, that is irrelevant and Android is sophisticated and provides a highly advanced technical solution. But the business end is where it will fail.
Android companies are run by MBA bean counters and feature list pushers. Not by people who put user experience first. So you get a race to the bottom on price so nobody makes money (witness Windows — HPs PC margins in their latest quarter were around 6.x% compared to Apple’s much higher margins — which companies need to be successful. And the physical quality of most Windows PCs is not very good and there is a reasonably high failure rate of components — again due to a race to the bottom on price — Android is the Windows of the phone/tablet world without the advantage of the MS monopoly for 10+ years to give them a headstart. I have read but not confirmed that HTC has a high rate of failure on their Android devices as an example). The various Android companies seem to be more concerned with feature checklists to show they are the coolest, hippest device. But with low margins on HW and high costs of porting SW to their devices and keeping already released devices up to date, they make all sorts of deals to allow carriers to ruin the user experience with crapware installs, funky non standard UI, etc. All stuff that lessens the user experience in exchange for a few extra bucks from the carriers to try and make money on the deal. Apple is all about making a painless and easy to use user experience. Never mind that they also have very high tech (retina display, small and compact solid feeling phone, OS X which is probably the best system out there now under the hood). That easy to use user experience is what brings the general consumer back again and again (attach rates for existing customers is very high on iPhone). Android does not offer that and probably can’t. Google provides a basis OS in order to expand their search, not provide a seamless experience to the user. Each handset maker is in it to sell little boxes with handsets, and since Android is across multiple makers, it is hard to get devices that really are unique compared to the other Android devices. They are not in it to provide a compelling user experience. Each carrier demands control over the devices it carries so you get further fragmentation of the user experience with bloat/crapware, non standard UI, etc. And as I mentioned, the track record of manufacturers and carriers actually providing ongoing OS updates to older devices is not very good. Some have happened but there are lots of Android devices out there stuck on 1.x or 2.1 with no foreseeable upgrade path. All of this leads to low margins, hard to make money for the manufacturers, and a piss poor user experience for everyone except the tinkerers and modders who LIKE to download new ROMs and mess around. All good and well but they are not a big enough piece of the market to make it financially viable.
@A few points…
Yes, Verizon’s involvement is terrible. I really just want a wifi only version. True, Nvidia claims that quad core processors will be available by the end of the year, so there will probably be a lot great tablets by next Christmas. Hopefully cheaper as well.
You’re right, the competition is good for everyone. I don’t quite understand why so many people want their particular brand to dominate the market. If Apple releases the Ipad3 before their usual year to year cycle-and there are already rumblings that they might-it will no doubt be a response to the Android tablets that will surely utilize the quad core processors in time for the holiday season.
@Chadbag
You make a lot of good points about fragmentation and slow software updates (Google needs to get better about this, as do the hardware partners) but you seem to assume a little too readily that everyone who buys Apple is doing it for the superior software, or better user experience. There is also the trend factor. I’m sure you won’t deny that Apple is extraordinarily trendy at the moment. I want to say upfront that I think they make really great hardware and software so that you don’t take the following analogy too far, but imagine a fan of Twilight stating that people keep coming back to the Twilight series because it is a superior literary masterpiece. Even if this is true (and I’m not saying that it is), it completely discounts the trend factor. Apple has a trend factor that no other company can match at the moment, if ever. Because there is such a strong trend factor, there is no way to tell whether an individual buys Apple because he/she thinks it is the best product, or because he/she thinks it is the “coolest” product.
You have a lot of correlation-lots of people buying from a company that also happens to make high end software/hardware-but I’m not so sure you have causation, as there are many other reasons besides the great hardware/software that people may be buying Apple at the moment.
And this only takes the general consumer into account. Apple also has a very strong fan base that other companies don’t have. Many Apple fans will buy Apple products-good or bad-because that’s what fans of any product/music band/movie star/ do. I’m sure that most Stephen King books sell well, even the particularly bad ones, because he has a large fan base.
This is just an anecdote, so take it with a grain of salt, but I know a few people who buy Apple products simply because there are more fancy cases and accessories made for them. As I said, this is just an anecdote, but it only takes one anecdote to falsify the general claim that all Apple purchasers do so because of the clean UI.
Again, good points about fragmentation and slow software updates (Samsung in particular has been particularly bad with the update to Froyo), but I still sense a little Apple fandom coming from your posts, and it may be coloring your view of some things.
@lordfenriz
Just a note. I did not say clean or better UI (which I happen to think is true, but also not important for this discussion). I said better user experience (UE). The plethora of cases/accessories is part of the user experience, for better or for worse.
With regards fandom. There are some people who buy Apple just because it is Apple or because somebody else they know bought it and they want to be part of the trend. But there is not enough of that to make Apple successful by itself. People keep coming back, and it is due to the overall user experience. If they were being fooled, taking a bite out of a sour apple (excuse the pun), they would not necessarily come back. (And there are iPhone/iPad people who move to Android and like it better — that is fine, their user experience needs are different than Apple provides). But overall they do come back. I know lots and lots of people who have started using Apple products in the last few years. Some moved from Windows to OS X. Some are iPhone users. Most are not technically advanced “nerd” users but are every day need to get work done users. Most of them are very happy with their iPhone / iPad / Mac. It is easy to use, “just works” most of the time, and is a pleasant user experience.
Most of the Android people I know are (not necessarily in order of magnitude or important) either Apple haters, or geeks and modders, or prefer T-Mobile or Sprint or (until recently) Verizon, or whatever, or got a better deal (2 for 1) and think that all phones are either the same so low price wins, or that all phones suck so the low price wins. That is my experience (and as a phone junkie with a plethora of phones in my metaphorical desk drawer gathering dust I tend to seek out and engage phone users in my circle of acquaintances (at church, online where I hang out, which is mostly non-tech forums [firearms for example], in the extended family, etc)). Most of the people I know who rave about Android are either tech geeks (most of them) and seek out the newest, flashiest best spec things that they can play with and mod (and more power to them), or are Apple haters, or non AT&T people.
I am not trying to say why iOS and Apple are better. That would be a different discussion. I am just trying to say why they will be more successful in the market than Android and why Android in the end will be a commercial failure of sorts.
one thing I have not mentioned is the app market. Lots of developers are having problems making really good apps that people will buy for Android. Not for technical reasons, but because a lot of Android people don’t believe in paying for apps ( I did not say that everyone is like that! ). Its a mindset. Paid apps per phone is much higher on iPhone. And Google tries to convince developers to make their bucks with in-app advertising (last thing I want in a useful app are ads though I don’t mind them in the occasional free game I am trying out — if I really like the game I tend to buy the non ad version). That is a turn off to lots of users. I do not know this personally but have read many comments that the Android Market from Google is full of mostly crap with the real gems hard to find. Crap = copyright infringing “ringtone” or other “content” apps, malware vector apps, etc. because of the lack of vetting. I know lots of Android developers are saying that they are not making much money. It is a hard sell the way it is set up now. And Google gets its money from search and advertising so there is no real incentive to invest to make a tier 1 experience out of it. The Apple App Store has some cookie cutter type apps, but those are disappearing and the quality is much higher and the developers are making more on their efforts, which leads to more and better apps. Google really needs to take control of the Google App Market (or whatever its exact name is) and impose some order and control and vetting and invest some money in a better and compelling experience. (Of course that would alienate many of the geek type users who like Android).
@Chadbag
Again, you make a lot of good points, and some not so good points. Google definitely needs to do better with the Android Market. I’ve used both and the Apple store is better. I won’t go into everything, because these posts are getting a little long.
However, I want to caution you about some of the evidence you are citing. Most of your evidence seems to be anecdotal in nature:
“Most of the Android people I know…”
“Most of the people I know who rave about Android are either tech geeks (most of them) and seek out the newest, flashiest best spec things that they can play with and mod (and more power to them), or are Apple haters, or non AT&T people.”
“I know lots and lots of people who have started using Apple products in the last few years.”
I cited an anecdote about the cases and accessories to falsify your claim that everyone goes to Apple for user experience (I know you think this is user experience, but I disagree. Really, are unique cases really something you would credit to Apple in the same way that you credit them for a polished UI?)
Anecdotes are an acceptable means to falsify a general claim, because it only takes one instance to falsify something. I can falsify the general claim that all Labrador Retrievers are brown by providing one instance of a yellow Labrador. However, if I wanted to claim that all or most Labrador Retrievers are calm and good with children, I need a much larger sample size than one, or even one hundred. With people it is even more difficult.
You’re using your personal anecdotes (“most of the people I talk to/know”) to make sweeping general claims about Apple users and Android users. In other words, you’re trying to prove, not falsify, and even if you know two thousand Iphone users, and two thousand Android,you still don’t know enough users to make such sweeping generalizations.
Again, you make a lot of good and cogent points, but I want to caution you about some of your evidence. I could just as easily say:
“All the people I know who buy Apple products just like the attention that Apple products bring…”
“All the Droid users I know are nerds and are therefore smarter than most Apple users…”
“All the people I meet who don’t go to church have no morals and are creepy people…”
“All the people I meet who go to church claim to have morals, but then act in immoral ways…”
I think you get my point. I can, however, say something like this:
“I met a really smart programmer the other day who uses nothing buy Apple, so I guess all Apple users aren’t dumb.”
Sorry the post is so long.
@lordfenriz
“I cited an anecdote about the cases and accessories to falsify your claim that everyone goes to Apple for user experience (I know you think this is user experience, but I disagree. Really, are unique cases really something you would credit to Apple in the same way that you credit them for a polished UI?)”
Of course it is part of the user experience. Everything the user does and experiences is part of the user experience, for better or for worse. This is why Apple has a special program to approve accessories and cases and stuff.
User Experience is the total sum experience the user has with the device. If you buy the latest whizbang fancy device but cannot find any cool cases for it, you will be disappointed. (Generic you, not necessarily you lordfenriz).
Most “data” used in these discussions will be at least somewhat anecdotal because a lot of what is being discussed is hard to quantify. And I use anecdotes only to show general trends and I try and gather anecdotes from a wide spectrum of sources. Finding a counter anecdote does not nullify anything unless it can be shown that it is a widespread phenonomen (even when anecdotal). I am only looking at general trends. Personal experience / my own circle of acquaintances. News articles. Blogs. etc. I do not doubt that Android has lots of smart intelligent users. In fact I know they do. The ones I know tend to be the more geeky sort (not said in any way to disparage anyone — I am a geek myself) and less the normal joe average guy. In the long run, appealing to the geeky sort only will result in market failure as there are not enough of the geeky tech sort to result in commercial success for the large companies competing. (And iPhone also attracts the geek sort as well — I know a bunch of those people too).
Anyway, get the tablet that best meets your needs. Android is not a failure yet and will probably take a few years to wind down and your tablet will be long obsolete by then anyway and will have served you well.
@Chadbag
I’ll make one last comment and will then let it stand.
“Of course it is part of the user experience. Everything the user does and experiences is part of the user experience, for better or for worse. This is why Apple has a special program to approve accessories and cases and stuff.”
I think you’re misunderstanding me, or perhaps I didn’t explain my point. I agree that it is part of the user experience, but I disagree that you should credit Apple for this portion of the user experience in the same way that you credit them for all their engineering and software decisions/creativity. No company really has control over how many third party companies decide to make accessories for their product. If Apple made all the cases themselves, I would see your point and agree, but they don’t. You’re really going to give Apple credit when a person chooses an iphone because she can get her favorite Kate Spade design on a case? I think you’re stretching it here.
“Finding a counter anecdote does not nullify anything unless it can be shown that it is a widespread phenonomen (even when anecdotal)”
Sure it does. It only takes one instance to falsify an absolute general claim. If I claim that all Android users are cheap and don’t want to pay for apps, you only need to find one Android user who pays for lots of apps to falsify my claim. That’s why falsification is more powerful than trying to “prove” something. Moreover, that’s why Science focuses more on falsification.
I try not to be a cheerleader for any of these companies. Once you start considering yourself an Apple guy, Mac, PC, Republican, Democrat, etc.; it creates blind spots in your thinking. That’s usually when the confirmation bias sets in and you find yourself seeking out evidence that confirms your beliefs, and discounting/avoiding evidence that might conflict with your beliefs. I’m not saying this is the case with you, but it’s something to think about. I enjoyed chatting with you.
@lordfenriz
“You’re really going to give Apple credit when a person chooses an iphone because she can get her favorite Kate Spade design on a case? I think you’re stretching it here.”
Sure. Apple put a lot of intelligence into getting there “Made for iPod/iPhone” license program right. Easy to license. Professional support. Huge sales of devices.
Apple devices deserve that UE ‘just the case’ 5 star experience. They earned it because they envisioned, planned, deployed, and maintained the whole program.
Know any other device maker doing the same and making the millions Apple’s making? Give Apple a hand and celebrate the total Apple UE.
OTOH, Android’s UE is still in open development, give them a couple of years and they’ll get there. (You’ll know when there are no free Androids or Android BOGO free offers.)
@lordfenriz
In reply to the falsification nullification bit: I never claimed all or any absolutes, just “in general” type statements, so finding a single counter example does not nullify my statement. Finding lots and lots of counter examples compared to the overall population (scientific population, not world or US population) would probably do so.
In reply to the case bit. I do give credit to Apple. Apple has a very strong accessory certification program. This leads to better accessories. They also have a strong product lineup, without lots and lots of sub variants and models, so it is easy and financially beneficial to make accessories for it. Kate Spade company does not have to make a billion (exaggerated number of course) different cases to cover the Apple market like they would have to do to cover the Android market. It is a beneficial arrangement for both parties and supported by both parties that makes the whole “eco system” (how I hate that word) a better proposition for the customer. It is not Apple’s responsibility alone, but they play a role in it. If the iOS or Android UI did not make the sale, but the Kate Spade case did, then Apple sold an iPhone or iPad or whatever anyway.
Anyway, it has been a pleasure. Time will tell if Android is a flash in the pan (maybe the Linux of cell phones — not many companies make much money on Linux but it does hold its small marketshare and endures and even prospers to a degree on servers) or a rousing success over time.
I agree with Dish that it is all about price–most consumers will not buy a more expensive product unless it does something far better, does something in addition to, etc.
The key point that I do not hear discussed very often, and I will say will be one of the 5 major reasons why this Motorola Xoom product will go to the same electronic nursing home as the Zune, is battery life. The iPad has terrific battery life, even when watching video, and that is a key feature for making it “user friendly.”
You get what you want: if you want multi-tasking and support for Flash, you get short battery life. I don’t think that people who buy tablets will want a product that has a short battery life.
Battery life for the Xoom is rather good from what I’ve seen from reviews. ~8 hours for continuous HD video playback–remember it can do 1080p. And for regular use you will see around 14 to 20 hours battery life. Because of the Tegra 2 dual-core your battery life can be exceptional or average depending on how heavy you are using those cores and the gpu in the T2.
I’m interested to see what Kevin gets after using it for a week or so. The batteries do need a little conditioning before they will give consistent measurable results.
For exceptional battery life you would want something like the Notion Ink Adam with a Pixel Qi screen, however; haven’t been hearing the best things about the Adam.
8 hours without flash. I wonder how many will it last with flash installed… Yeah
@Neven Ortwitz
The new version of Flash for mobile (10.2 I believe) actually does better than standard video players as far as efficiency from recent tests I’ve seen. Adobe has actually stepped up to the plate, finally, for mobile flash. They’ve done a lot for hardware acceleration and efficiency thus the battery drain for a flash video vs H.264 will be no different.
Nicer yet is that Honeycomb has the full Chrome browser so you can set flash to play only when clicked so you don’t have all those annoying ads and auto-start videos. It’s a win win for Honeycomb. . . that is, when flash is finally finished for it.
You keep lying about the HD specs for the Xoom, among other things. The Xoom plays 720p HD just like the current iPad. It has the ability to output 1080p when connected to a monitor that supports that.
We will see how the iPad 2 handles video sooner than you will like.
“And for regular use you will see around 14 to 20 hours battery life. ”
This claim about the Xoom is just plain delusional. If it gets only eight hours without Flash, it will get fewer hours with it.
@Podesta
Being able to play 1080p has nothing to do with the screen resolution. The Xoom can play a 1080p video, of course you will only see 720p via the screen or 1080p via hdmi. The point is, you can play a 1080p file. The iPad cannot. That’s all due to the processor, not the screen!
If you have ever played a 1080p file on a device even though the screen resolution may not support it you will have noticed that the CPU works harder than a lower resolution file.
That’s the point.
If you are getting 8 hours of battery via 1080p then it may be higher viewing 720p (the Xoom’s native screen resolution not its native playback ability–big difference).
No one has show test on this as of yet. However, to call someone a liar because you don’t understand basic tech issues is really uncalled for!
I realize you specifically reference video playback, but battery life reports have been largely positive on the Xoom and really close to what I have experienced with the iPad.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4191/motorola-xoom-review-first-honeycomb-tablet-arrives/14