Reader Help Needed — What’s Best Way to Cover Big House With Broadband?
This community has the smartest tech people around, and is a good place to pose a problem one of our readers needs to solve. I will let Sanjay speak for himself:
I am an avid reader of jkOnTheRun from India (New Delhi) for the last few years and visit the site daily….I am just moving into a large house (9000 square feet over two floor with lots of concrete) built on a 3 acre plot of land…..
Wanted your help or suitable link to a resource on whats the most powerful Wifi Router to use so that I get coverage on both the floors of the house ….. i have a 8 mbps DSL line from my telecom service provider…
Thank you in advance
What is the best way to cover such a large, multi-story dwelling made of concrete? I am confident we’ll get the best solutions for Sanjay to consider, even though it’s a pretty big problem. Leave your suggestions for Sanjay in the comments.
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Cable it.
What about several Apple Airport Express devices? I believe they can be configured to operate as a mesh, so just buy a few and sprinkle them around the house.
Added benefit: audio output on each one that can be controlled separately (shareware for non-iTunes applications).
At $99 each it isn’t cheap, but it sounds simple.
what about running a few wired drops and connecting wireless access points to them? i’ve tried a couple of repeaters and they work but there was definitely some loss of quality.
I might wire each floor separately with it’s own wireless router and then maybe use bridges to distribute the signal on each floor as that’s a lot of square footage.
Why not set up a wifi repeater or two? There are several tutorials online that explain how to set this up. I would also get routers that support the DD-WRT or Tomato Firmware so you can dial up the signal on each router.
Unless you’re pleasantly surprised that the signal can get between the floors, I think we’re easily talking multiple APs. You’ll have to map out just how far the signal can go.
In general, one thing I’ve done is run two APs and use powerline networking to connect the two APs. I haven’t used powerline in awhile, so I am unsure of the current speeds possible but it’s more than adequate for Internet surfing.
Otherwise, you may find the signal can reach between floors and you’ll need something like a bridge or something that will extend the wireless signal from the other floor. The most brain-dead idea off-hand is something like the Apple Extreme Base Station and one or more Apple Airport Express devices around the house.
Hope this helps! And anyone else, please feel free to correct me!
@tcv
Homeplug or ethernet over powerline.
You can buy this tech from the likes of DLink, Belkin, Linksys and many many more if you look on eBay.
The tech uses your mains power cabling to get your packets from one side of the house to the other. Much more reliable than wireless, just as secure (if not more so) and it does not care about thick walls.
You can pick up a pair of 200mbits adapters for not much cash on ebay (you won’t get a full 200mbits but seeing that you only need 8mbits, this will still give you plenty).
Simples
For that size I would suggest considering the Symbol/Motorolla WS2000 switch with up to six power-over-ethernet (POE) antennas. Sounds like they will need two per floor to insure good coverage, with another placed outside if desired.
I would use WDS (wireless distribution system) to mesh the wireless (lots of routers support it), that way there is no drop off between WAPs (Wireless Access Points). If you still have dead spots you could use powerline to link WAPs to the LAN
I would do a combo, some HD homeplug, maybe just two to start. Put ONE straight into a GIGE router, like an airport or something, but PLEASE start with GIGE at the router. Linksys makes some nice GIGE port routers as well.
With that homeplug HD run, put another one UPSTAIRS in the middle of the upstairs floors. At THAT location upstairs, put ANOTHER AP, possibly with the same SSID (this is fine, as long as there isn’t much overlap) or a different SSID/UPSTAIRS.
For the upstairs, you should be pretty well covered. If not, either upstairs or downstairs, you can pop in some nice AIRPORT EXPRESS AP’s that will do WDS, meaning they simply act as repeaters for the primary Aiport basestations. I think the linksys products do WDS as well, but make sure that the standards are the same.
I really like the apple AE’s since they also act as digital audio out itunes streaming devices, as long as they are within an optical cables reach of your stereo. You can even control your itunes with a iphone or ipod touch from anywhere on the LAN, to change songs and setup playlists, etc.
So, AP’s on each floor and homeplug to connect the floors. This will give you the best throughput and solid connections short of pulling copper.
Powerline may not work or may not work effectively depending on the number of circuits and distance of the runs. MoCA is a better option. Personally, I have a Time Capsule as my base station and an Airport Extreme and bridge mode which extends my network and also gives me Ethernet jacks for some non-wireless devices.
http://www.infopackets.com/news/software/windows_tips/2009/20091224_extend_wireless_wired_network_share_internet_2_routers.htm
David over at infopackets shows how to use multiple routers/access points to extend coverage.
Sorry his name is Dennis not David
If you think you’ll ever need to do any HD video streaming, I would vote NO for Powerline, as I have some recent experience with it.
The main problems are half-plex and line interference. The fact that packets can only go one way at a time means that it is only suitable for low bandwidth or one-way streaming type of applications, which can quickly be a problem if you get something like slingbox or a Media Center Extender. Also, the newer “HD” and “Gigabit” iterations only increase speed at the expense of sensitivity to interference. So you either have slow (i.e. can’t stream video) or short (i.e. only between power outlets on the same wall). Turn on your dishwasher or washing machine and watch packets get dropped.
Ultimately running CAT5e or CAT6 is worth it, especially if you own the house. You get gigabit, duplex, and a solid connection. If all the walls are concrete (like my condo) and you can’t go under the baseboards, consider wiremold tracks. They look good once installed and are completely paintable.
My 1 bedroom + den condo is set up as follows: HDHomerun dual ATSC networked tuner on the balcony connected to a dual-band N bridge, which uses the clean 5 GHz band to connect to my dual-band N router in the living room. Xbox 360 and cable internet are both connected there under the TV. Then I have white Legrand Wiremold covering a Cat5e wire that goes up the wall to the ceiling, then laterally along the top of the walls around several corners to the den at the other side of the apartment, drops down and provides a gigabit connection to our Media Center PC. The router also provides a simple 802.11g/n network for our laptops.
The HDHomerun mostly provides one-way traffic (streaming up to 2 free digital TV channels and receiving the occasional command packet to start, stop, change channels, etc.) so 802.11n 5GHz is suitable. But the Media Center PC back in the den has to receive these streams, record them and/or send them back out to the Xbox 360 running Media Center Extender – all the while doing other always-on PC kind of stuff (downloads, etc.) So that’s a duplex job.
Belkin Powerline HD wouldn’t even form a connection from the balcony outdoor outlet to the living room outlet, nor from the living room outlet back to the den.
I agree full CAT5 around the entire house is the perfect solution but it’s a big task if you have a large property and unless you want to do a load of plastering and redecorating afterwards, surface mount CAT5 just looks nasty.
Any form of WiFi is only as good as the signal so whilst 802.11n may look great on paper, a few concrete walls will make this unsuitable for video or anything needing high bandwidth.
As such, powerline and wifi both have similar problems however I have found that in a large house with thick walls, even over a couple of ring mains and via a distribution box, homeplug 200mbits is still good for a “consistent” 40mbits which is plenty for HD video and much better than anything WiFi can throw at it.
I’d contract with AT&T — they know how to provide great coverage ;)
That’s right! Luke Wilson says so…
Have you seen THE Map !!!
I personally have found Wifi to be mostly useful for guests. It just doesn’t have enough bandwidth to keep all my gadgets happy. I have two permanent Wifi users: Wii and PSP. Everything else is wired into a Gigabit network.
The Gigabit gives me the ability to handle large file transfers between gadgets and the low latency to get the most speed possible out of the 50Mbps cable modem. For things like streaming 1080p media to my PS3 Gigabit is the only solution. The PS3′s built in Wifi G class adaptor could never provide enough bandwidth during action sequences.
I use a combination of powerline ethernet and some wireless routers (flashed with dd-wrt firmware) for both floors of my house and this seems to work well for me.
I had a similar question myself. I ended up using a pair of Linksys wrt-54g routers and the dd-wrt firmware. It allows for a primary router, then allows the second, third and soon to be wireless repeaters. It also will forward the dhcp requests.
This setup allows for a primary configuration for dhcp, dns, etc.
It has worked well for me for 3 years or more.
I would recommend a mesh network of 802.11n Access Points running at 5Ghz. The 5Ghz BW is important as it penetrates concrete much easier than 2.4Ghz, this is the reason West Point Military Academy initially chose 802.11a instead of 802.11b when they first installed WiFi on campus. The reason you want 802.11n instead of a/b/g is because it uses 3 antennas at the same time to greatly improve throughput, especially for streaming devices. So in summary, as others have already stated, this is so simple a caveman could do it.
802.11n @5Ghz
:-P
I would cable it, and use access points around the house, together with wall sockets.
That’s what ibwould say – combination of hard-wired jacks and routers maybe.
A great wireless router from a company called Ruckus Wireless. Serious I do RF for a living and I have covered entire Hotel properties with just 2 of these things. They are not cheap but they are great. About $700.00US
On Powerline, just remember that they will only work if all the devices are on the same circuit on your breaker. I ran into this with some of the older Trendnet 85Mbit Powerline adapters, had to put them all on the same circuit before they would work.
Also, it seems (at least with my own building wiring, YMMV) I can’t connect both to a surge protector or UPS. I can connect a single unit of my pair to a surge, but not both.
I agree with most of the posts, you are going to need to run cable to several locations then attach a few access points to the end of the cabling. Then set up a WDS between the access points.
Get a Apple Extreme or Time Capsule Router. Then you add Airports to extend the signal for other areas that don’t have signal. Very easy to setup with either Mac or Windows.
I’m doubtful that powerline is going to be an option, knowing the kind of electrical wiring common there from personal experience.
Looking at the size of the house, and figuring that he probably wants to be able to get a decent signal outside so he can enjoy the extra area he has It looks like he’s going to need a few things.
A good router (Preferable N, However G is also good if you don’t need Video streaming) which supports WDS (Might be worth checking if its general or only works with a few specific models, which was an expensive lesson to learn.)
Then Repeaters / Other routers connected Via Gigabyte Ethernet if possible, otherwise wireless to extend the network.
If going the wireless route and planning to do it yourself, Apple’s Airport Extreme and Airport Expresses provide a pretty easy Plug and play solution with each other, and the Airport utility is pretty straightforward to use. They are however pretty expensive in India, so it might turn to be an expensive proposition.
Another option is to get a professional company to come and do the setup, configuration and testing for you. The service is probably only going to cost you Rs.2-5000 ($40-$100) over the cost of the hardware. The harder part will probably be finding a reliable company to do it for you, but it should not be to difficult.
I’ve done a similar setup in our place. I used the Wavion WS 410 / WBs 2400. It can cover distances more than 2 Kms. It is not cheap at about INR 1,42,000 from a Wavion dealer. But it solves the problem with a single access point. Only other option would be to go with multiple Linksys WRT610N (costs around INR 9,500)or Linksys WRT 320N (costs around INR 7,000) running dd-wrt.
Thank you Friends…..that was really useful….appreciate so much effort all of you took in helping me out…Wishing you a prosperous and health 2010
Why not considering VPL, which transmits bandwidthintensive data easily and securely over the existing electrical wiring ?
It might not be the most “mobile” solution, for you’ll need a VPL adapter for each computer you want to connect, but it will provide you with a constant bandwidth wherever you are in your house.
use a high power one watt router. if you are outside the US check the laws and see if they have a maximum output power. if they do not go to someone like radiolabs.com and ask them to do a high power router with some repeaters and antennas, this would cover the whole area.
I’ve had no problem running full HD around the house with the netgear “hd” powerline boxes, this is also an older house, but definitely on one circuit which is required.
of COURSE running CAT6e everywhere would be best, but man that would cost some serious coin these days after a house is built.