Comments on: Vegas Clean Energy Summit: Tale of Two Biofuels

By: Big Auto & Oil to DC: Relax on the Ethanol Blend

Big Auto & Oil to DC: Relax on the Ethanol Blend — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:50:31 +0000

[...] a difference in priorities for the corn ethanol vs. cellulosic ethanol industries. As Katie reported from the Las Vegas Clean Energy Summit this summer, getting even an incremental uptick in ethanol [...]

By: The Biggest Barrier to a Better Grid: Paperwork

The Biggest Barrier to a Better Grid: Paperwork — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:01:40 +0000

[...] done at the political level. Politicians are starting to take notice of all the roadblocks. At the National Clean Energy Summit in Las Vegas earlier this month, Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said he wouldn’t back an energy [...]

By: LittleWally

LittleWally — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:44:14 +0000

The ethanol industry knew full well when they got their last govt mandate in 2007 that the blend wall would be an issue before they reached the 15 billion gallon cap, but back then they said that E85 could be rapidly implemented with FFVs (which was also completely fanciful). Now it’s 2009, and their E85 fantasy is confirmed (i.e., excess capacity beyond the blend wall cannot be taken up by FFVs, mostly because it is always overpriced), so they are crying that their mandates and subsidies need to keep growing. It is their classic bait and switch approach to getting what they want.

That is great for any industry to have the gov’t to generously subsidize and also keep forcing folks to buy your product, but it’s probably not very sound energy policy. Cellulsoic ethanol is STILL 5 years away, like it always has been, even after billions of gov’t grants and subsidies. E15 may be ok for most cars, but EPA sure has not completed all of the studies it would need to in order to verify that. Once all the studies are done and we know what E15 really means (not just to new cars, but all 300 million cars, and the 10′s of millions of small gasoline engines like lawnmowers and chainsaws), then we can figure out if our current ethanol obsession really makes sense. Also, it’s not just about engines, it’s also about understanding E15′s effects on air quality. What is the big rush to more ethanol mandates?

Why not just take a breather for a few years and freeze corn ethanol where it is, and guarantee that only cellulosic fuels will qualify for all future additional mandated biofuel volumes. That way cellulosic can grow the way it should. And in all likelihood, by the time cellulosic ethanol actually can show it maybe works (5 yrs), we will also have learned how to convert biomass into gasoline that doesn’t have the same kind of compatibility and low energy content problems that ethanol has. Current issue of Science (Aug 14) has a good summary of these ‘green gasolines’ ( see http://tinyurl.com/l28sua ). Oh, or we’ll also be pretty close to a good electric car in 5 yrs as well, and those don’t need to use any ethanol.

By: Tyler Hamilton

Tyler Hamilton — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:07:57 +0000

Brazil has a blend limit of 26 per cent for non-flex-fuel vehicles, so apparently it's not just a big deal in other countries. I agree with the previous commenting, there's been no evidence brought forward that a 15 per cent blend is going to do damage to cars.

By: Katie Fehrenbacher

Katie Fehrenbacher — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:15:34 +0000

Thanks Nathan,
Some good points. I don’t necessarily think E15 is an issue that corn and cellulosic are fighting over, just that the corn ethanol guys seem to be the ones prominently pushing this. If for just the basic fact that cellulosic isn’t ready to sell to that demand yet.
I admit I havent done extensive research on how the E15 blend will effect non flex fuel gear, which is why I pointed to Kate’s article that mentions as such, as I think she’s been following that closely.
In terms of how bad the year has been for ethanol, perhaps disastrous is a strong word – let’s just say “bad” then.

By: nathanschock

nathanschock — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:39:16 +0000

Katie,
I respectfully disagree with a couple of points in your post. First, both cellulosic and corn ethanol (both of which Gen. Clark & Growth Energy represent) are united behind increasing the blend level up to E15. I was at the Summit, and I heard them both singing the same tune on this one. Even Secretary Chu recently spoke in favor of E15.

Second, while there have been some bankruptcies in the corn ethanol industry, has the year really been “disastrous?” Ethanol will increase production from 9 billion gallons last year to 11.75 billion this year, more than a 23% increase. I know you guys have been preoccupied with your ethanol death watch, but that’s a big jump up.

Second, if E15 “can damage engines and equipment that are not flex-fuel compatible,” why don’t any of the studies conducted by industry, government or higher education show that? Take a look at all of the supporting science for E15: http://www.growthenergy.org/2009/e15/learnmore.asp.