<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:go='http://ns.gigaom.com/'
xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Power Grid Is So Dumb That&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:44:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: @itinsecurity</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[@itinsecurity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 00:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I find this article a bit lacking in substance. While the arguments for keeping old lines are mentioned, they seem to be dismissed without thought, simply because &quot;the lines are old&quot;. I see no argument here for why the old lines are a problem, except for that the carriers don&#039;t think they pay well enough.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We all want reliable critical infrastructure. But that doesn&#039;t necessarily equate to being up-to-date on all forms of technology.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Why? Well, more than anything, we would like to see the power grid as reliable. This has consequences for a lot of the choices utilities companies make.
And if a change makes no economical sense either, there&#039;s even more reason not to change before one must.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Let&#039;s look at the three points in the article:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&quot;..these lines are generally very reliable.&quot;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Exactly. And they are so for several reasons, one of which is complexity (or the lack thereof). In a modern network, with it&#039;s layered protocol implementations, you get a lot more interconnected entities (HW and SW) that fail once in a while. Add to that a lot of dependencies and unexpectedly tight couplings, and your complexity goes up exponentially. Sometimes, you might gain reliability for the network as a whole, but at the cost of lowering the reliability for each single link. Also, the interdependencies between network components can lead to the occasional massive outage, taking down many links instead of just one. (I&#039;ve seen that happen on various network through the past 10 years).
Upgrading doesn&#039;t just cure old problems, it also brings you a whole lot of new ones to tackle.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Fees for new lines?
I&#039;ll give you a simple example:  where I live, that fee can rise well into six figures, adding decades to the time it takes get your ROI compared to the old lines.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Fear of change? Or of the cost of change?
Maybe, but being restrictive with changes to critical infrastructure is usually considered good practice.
Besides, this isn&#039;t really and argument for not upgrading to &quot;better&quot; lines, since older protocols usually can be emulated on those lines.
And if, in the end, the bandwidth requirements do not exceed what those antiquated modems can deliver, then you&#039;re left without much reason to change.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At some point, all of this old crap (yes, I don&#039;t argue with that) will have to be changed. In fact, the company I now work for already took that leap many years ago, so we&#039;re already past the &quot;antiquated modem&quot; stage. And now we&#039;re ready for yet another lift to newer and, we think, better technology, a change that is maybe a lot easier for us than many others, since we have a less &quot;ancient&quot; starting point. But these lifts have shown us that the picture is way more nuanced than you seem to think.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this article a bit lacking in substance. While the arguments for keeping old lines are mentioned, they seem to be dismissed without thought, simply because &#8220;the lines are old&#8221;. I see no argument here for why the old lines are a problem, except for that the carriers don&#8217;t think they pay well enough.</p>
<p>We all want reliable critical infrastructure. But that doesn&#8217;t necessarily equate to being up-to-date on all forms of technology.</p>
<p>Why? Well, more than anything, we would like to see the power grid as reliable. This has consequences for a lot of the choices utilities companies make.<br />
And if a change makes no economical sense either, there&#8217;s even more reason not to change before one must.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s look at the three points in the article:</p>
<ol>
<li>&#8220;..these lines are generally very reliable.&#8221;</li>
</ol>
<p>Exactly. And they are so for several reasons, one of which is complexity (or the lack thereof). In a modern network, with it&#8217;s layered protocol implementations, you get a lot more interconnected entities (HW and SW) that fail once in a while. Add to that a lot of dependencies and unexpectedly tight couplings, and your complexity goes up exponentially. Sometimes, you might gain reliability for the network as a whole, but at the cost of lowering the reliability for each single link. Also, the interdependencies between network components can lead to the occasional massive outage, taking down many links instead of just one. (I&#8217;ve seen that happen on various network through the past 10 years).<br />
Upgrading doesn&#8217;t just cure old problems, it also brings you a whole lot of new ones to tackle.</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>Fees for new lines?<br />
I&#8217;ll give you a simple example:  where I live, that fee can rise well into six figures, adding decades to the time it takes get your ROI compared to the old lines.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Fear of change? Or of the cost of change?<br />
Maybe, but being restrictive with changes to critical infrastructure is usually considered good practice.<br />
Besides, this isn&#8217;t really and argument for not upgrading to &#8220;better&#8221; lines, since older protocols usually can be emulated on those lines.<br />
And if, in the end, the bandwidth requirements do not exceed what those antiquated modems can deliver, then you&#8217;re left without much reason to change.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>At some point, all of this old crap (yes, I don&#8217;t argue with that) will have to be changed. In fact, the company I now work for already took that leap many years ago, so we&#8217;re already past the &#8220;antiquated modem&#8221; stage. And now we&#8217;re ready for yet another lift to newer and, we think, better technology, a change that is maybe a lot easier for us than many others, since we have a less &#8220;ancient&#8221; starting point. But these lifts have shown us that the picture is way more nuanced than you seem to think.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Power Grid Is So Dumb That . . . . &#171; SmartGrid Current</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Power Grid Is So Dumb That . . . . &#171; SmartGrid Current]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] Power Grid Is So Dumb That . . .&#160;.    Posted August 2, 2010 Filed under: Uncategorized &#124;   http://earth2tech.com/2010/07/29/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/     &#171; Cooper Industries Acquires [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Power Grid Is So Dumb That . . .&nbsp;.    Posted August 2, 2010 Filed under: Uncategorized |   <a href="http://earth2tech.com/2010/07/29/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/" rel="nofollow">http://earth2tech.com/2010/07/29/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/</a>     &laquo; Cooper Industries Acquires [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Windows Power Grid Worm is Just the Beginning</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34829</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Windows Power Grid Worm is Just the Beginning]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 02:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] The Power Grid Is So Dumb That . . .&#160;. [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Power Grid Is So Dumb That . . .&nbsp;. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Todays Minute</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34820</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todays Minute]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Next Half Century...&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I found your entry interesting thus I&#039;ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog :)...&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Next Half Century&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I found your entry interesting thus I&#8217;ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog :)&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Budde</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Budde]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;In Australia we are trying to combined smart grids with the roll out of the national broadband network. This is a link to a paper that has been developed by Smart Grid Australia on the issue.
http://www.smartgridaustralia.com.au/uploads/documents/SGA_INWG_NBN_Considerations_Paper_Final.pdf&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Australia we are trying to combined smart grids with the roll out of the national broadband network. This is a link to a paper that has been developed by Smart Grid Australia on the issue.<br />
<a href="http://www.smartgridaustralia.com.au/uploads/documents/SGA_INWG_NBN_Considerations_Paper_Final.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.smartgridaustralia.com.au/uploads/documents/SGA_INWG_NBN_Considerations_Paper_Final.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neill</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34817</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;The SCADA system in the city where I worked previously was all run on a 1Gbps fiber network. So it is possible to do.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SCADA system in the city where I worked previously was all run on a 1Gbps fiber network. So it is possible to do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sfmitch</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sfmitch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I remember when I lusted after 1200 Baud modems.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At the time, I could only afford the 300 Baud Modem, the 1200 Baud was out of my reach (I was in 5th grade).&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when I lusted after 1200 Baud modems.</p>
<p>At the time, I could only afford the 300 Baud Modem, the 1200 Baud was out of my reach (I was in 5th grade).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Reck</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-power-grid-is-so-dumb-that/#comment-34815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Reck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=62921#comment-34815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Interesting article Katie. Most laymen would never guess how antiquated parts of the power system still are.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Power Grid is so dumb...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Once not too too long ago I actually saw pneumatic controls in operation in a fossil plant control room.  When I bragged to the operators that my company could interface a predictive controls technology to just about any control system, he swung open the cabinet doors under the control panel and stepped back.  I just stared with my mouth open at the spaghetti pile of capillary tubing and valves, not even understanding what I was looking at. He got laugh.  Here is an example picture of some simple pneumatic controls I found on flickr:  http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2522484481_7ae8fe0d82.jpg&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Power Grid is so dumb...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The ultimate example of &quot;if it&#039;s not broke...&quot; has got to be NASA&#039;s Space shuttle (with iron core memory - yes little iron rings on a grid work of fine wires). http://www.popsci.com/node/31716&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe they could upgrade the substation comm-link to twice the baud -- 2400 baud modems -- for a slightly &quot;Less Stupid&quot; Grid.  I think there might still be a pile of working 2400 modems in an old box in my basement.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Disclaimer:
Nothing in this post should be construed as a technology recommendation. All technology involves different degrees of risk. You should be aware of your risk tolerance level and operational situations at all times. Furthermore, you should read all manuals and test systems regularly. Test any and all technology carefully before making any upgrade decisions. Check eBay for better technology deals http://bit.ly/boa4ho  ;) LOL&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article Katie. Most laymen would never guess how antiquated parts of the power system still are.</p>
<p>The Power Grid is so dumb&#8230;</p>
<p>Once not too too long ago I actually saw pneumatic controls in operation in a fossil plant control room.  When I bragged to the operators that my company could interface a predictive controls technology to just about any control system, he swung open the cabinet doors under the control panel and stepped back.  I just stared with my mouth open at the spaghetti pile of capillary tubing and valves, not even understanding what I was looking at. He got laugh.  Here is an example picture of some simple pneumatic controls I found on flickr:  <a href="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2522484481_7ae8fe0d82.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2522484481_7ae8fe0d82.jpg</a></p>
<p>The Power Grid is so dumb&#8230;</p>
<p>The ultimate example of &#8220;if it&#8217;s not broke&#8230;&#8221; has got to be NASA&#8217;s Space shuttle (with iron core memory &#8211; yes little iron rings on a grid work of fine wires). <a href="http://www.popsci.com/node/31716" rel="nofollow">http://www.popsci.com/node/31716</a></p>
<p>Maybe they could upgrade the substation comm-link to twice the baud &#8212; 2400 baud modems &#8212; for a slightly &#8220;Less Stupid&#8221; Grid.  I think there might still be a pile of working 2400 modems in an old box in my basement.</p>
<p>Disclaimer:<br />
Nothing in this post should be construed as a technology recommendation. All technology involves different degrees of risk. You should be aware of your risk tolerance level and operational situations at all times. Furthermore, you should read all manuals and test systems regularly. Test any and all technology carefully before making any upgrade decisions. Check eBay for better technology deals <a href="http://bit.ly/boa4ho" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/boa4ho</a>  ;) LOL</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

