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	<title>Comments on: Sorry, You Can&#039;t Drive That Canadian Car in Canada</title>
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	<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/</link>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathaniel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;P.S. That was directed to Alastair Carnegie, not Alistair Croll. An unfortunate coincidence of names.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. That was directed to Alastair Carnegie, not Alistair Croll. An unfortunate coincidence of names.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathaniel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;@Alastair: It&#039;s not obvious to you from that video that the cart is /not/ an over-unity device? Didn&#039;t you see how quickly the pendulum slowed down? That&#039;s not just friction. The pendulum is pushing the cart forwards, and losing energy as it does. No free energy here. Sure, you could drive the pendulums with motors, but it would be more efficient to just drive the wheels directly.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alastair: It&#8217;s not obvious to you from that video that the cart is /not/ an over-unity device? Didn&#8217;t you see how quickly the pendulum slowed down? That&#8217;s not just friction. The pendulum is pushing the cart forwards, and losing energy as it does. No free energy here. Sure, you could drive the pendulums with motors, but it would be more efficient to just drive the wheels directly.</p>
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		<title>By: Alastair Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alastair Carnegie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;The problem with all these electric concept cars, is that they are powered by &quot;Under-Unity&quot; Electric Motors.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There is absolutely no need for this! &quot;Over-Unity&quot; Drive Units are the SANE! way forward. One such device nearly a decade old (groan! we despair of the intransigency of engineers! Less charitable folk call it &#039;blind stupidity&#039;) has recently been presented on YouTube, by a Serbian Inventor of very high standing:-  &quot;Veljko Milković - Cart with a pendulum - Vehicles with internal and inertial drive&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The model illustrated in the video is just a single inclined pendulum demonstration of principle. 24 pendulum stacked disc variations are currently under investigation. The drive impulse is a result of &#039;centripetal acceleration&#039; but essentially the power comes from &#039;Gravity&#039; (Hunt Aviation&#039;s Gravity Powered Flight is another variety) The purpose of having as many as 24 pendulums, is so as to even out the thrust, which with a single pendulum is quite jerky. also it allows for counter-oscillation, which is more balanced. These &#039;inclined&#039; disc pendulums need not just oscilate, they may if desired rotate over the full 360 degrees.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of crucial importance, is that very little electrical power is required to ensure the pendulums &#039;make the extra inch over the top&quot; so to speak. After that gravity takes you to your destination. These stacked disks are cup-n-cone magnetically suspended at their circumference, eliminating bearing friction. They are driven by efficient three-phase segment motors. with a very short pulse for each oscilation. Regenerative charging is also contemplated. Braking also charges the battery. The vehicles are not expected to achieve any great velocity, but who cares, NO FUEL.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&#039;Gravity&#039; is NOT nothing, so please don&#039;t quote &quot;ex nihilo nihil fit&quot; (L) From out of nothing, nothing comes. &quot;Vide et crede&quot; instead! (see &amp; believe)&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with all these electric concept cars, is that they are powered by &#8220;Under-Unity&#8221; Electric Motors.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no need for this! &#8220;Over-Unity&#8221; Drive Units are the SANE! way forward. One such device nearly a decade old (groan! we despair of the intransigency of engineers! Less charitable folk call it &#8216;blind stupidity&#8217;) has recently been presented on YouTube, by a Serbian Inventor of very high standing:-  &#8220;Veljko Milković &#8211; Cart with a pendulum &#8211; Vehicles with internal and inertial drive&#8221;</p>
<p>The model illustrated in the video is just a single inclined pendulum demonstration of principle. 24 pendulum stacked disc variations are currently under investigation. The drive impulse is a result of &#8216;centripetal acceleration&#8217; but essentially the power comes from &#8216;Gravity&#8217; (Hunt Aviation&#8217;s Gravity Powered Flight is another variety) The purpose of having as many as 24 pendulums, is so as to even out the thrust, which with a single pendulum is quite jerky. also it allows for counter-oscillation, which is more balanced. These &#8216;inclined&#8217; disc pendulums need not just oscilate, they may if desired rotate over the full 360 degrees.</p>
<p>Of crucial importance, is that very little electrical power is required to ensure the pendulums &#8216;make the extra inch over the top&#8221; so to speak. After that gravity takes you to your destination. These stacked disks are cup-n-cone magnetically suspended at their circumference, eliminating bearing friction. They are driven by efficient three-phase segment motors. with a very short pulse for each oscilation. Regenerative charging is also contemplated. Braking also charges the battery. The vehicles are not expected to achieve any great velocity, but who cares, NO FUEL.</p>
<p>&#8216;Gravity&#8217; is NOT nothing, so please don&#8217;t quote &#8220;ex nihilo nihil fit&#8221; (L) From out of nothing, nothing comes. &#8220;Vide et crede&#8221; instead! (see &amp; believe)</p>
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		<title>By: The Rise of the UltraCapacitor &#171; Earth2Tech</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8765</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Rise of the UltraCapacitor &#171; Earth2Tech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] off the tank at the gas station would make electric vehicles much more practical and attractive. Canadian electric car firm called Zenn has signed a deal with EEStor to replace the current lead-acid batteries in its small urban [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] off the tank at the gas station would make electric vehicles much more practical and attractive. Canadian electric car firm called Zenn has signed a deal with EEStor to replace the current lead-acid batteries in its small urban [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Electric Car Roundup: Dyson Vacuums, ZENNs Come Home &#38; Brits Plug In &#171; Earth2Tech</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8764</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Electric Car Roundup: Dyson Vacuums, ZENNs Come Home &#38; Brits Plug In &#171; Earth2Tech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] low speeds and aren&#8217;t allowed on many roads. But Canadian electric automaker ZENN Motor could finally see its cars being driven on its home turf. The Québec Ministry of Transportation has announced  a three-year pilot project allowing [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] low speeds and aren&#8217;t allowed on many roads. But Canadian electric automaker ZENN Motor could finally see its cars being driven on its home turf. The Québec Ministry of Transportation has announced  a three-year pilot project allowing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: THERMOS(R) ECO-LOGIC LIVING &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Small Step for Man a Giant Leap for Fuel Economy!!</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[THERMOS(R) ECO-LOGIC LIVING &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Small Step for Man a Giant Leap for Fuel Economy!!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] of follow the leader when it comes to climate change.  They can begin by tackling the issue of LSV&#8217;s or Low Speed Vehicles by allow them on all Canadian roads.  As it stands right now the Canadian Government has recently [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of follow the leader when it comes to climate change.  They can begin by tackling the issue of LSV&#8217;s or Low Speed Vehicles by allow them on all Canadian roads.  As it stands right now the Canadian Government has recently [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EEStor&#8217;s Batteries Enlisted for Battlefield &#171; Earth2Tech</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8762</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EEStor&#8217;s Batteries Enlisted for Battlefield &#171; Earth2Tech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] year EEStor was scheduled to start delivering the battery systems to Canadian electric carmaker ZENN Motors but in September pushed back commercial production dates to late 2008, which the Lockheed press [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] year EEStor was scheduled to start delivering the battery systems to Canadian electric carmaker ZENN Motors but in September pushed back commercial production dates to late 2008, which the Lockheed press [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Voelcker</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8761</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Voelcker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8761</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Alistair: I&#039;m sorry, but this is sloppy journalism: &quot;...lithium ion batteries (the same ones used in many laptops) have a nasty habit of bursting into flames when pierced, as evidenced by recent laptop battery recalls&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Please note that the broad class of &quot;lithium ion batteries&quot; includes several different chemistries. It is those batteries with cobalt--the ones commonly used in mobile phones &amp; laptops--that are most susceptible to thermal runaway, a la the flaming-laptop videos.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Other chemistries, including manganese and iron-phosphate, do not share this problem. The crucial question: If a cell suffers an internal short, is there enough oxygen bound into the chemistry to allow it to self-oxidize (i.e. burn) without external air to feed it?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It appears that Toyota, with its long-term battery partner Panasonic, initially bet on the wrong Li-ion chemistry, one that included cobalt. GM, on the other hand, is pursuing two different chemistries for its Volt batteries via development contracts with LG Chem and A123 Systems.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See the longer article on Li-ion batteries for automotive use in the link connected to my name for more detail.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alistair: I&#8217;m sorry, but this is sloppy journalism: &#8220;&#8230;lithium ion batteries (the same ones used in many laptops) have a nasty habit of bursting into flames when pierced, as evidenced by recent laptop battery recalls&#8221;</p>
<p>Please note that the broad class of &#8220;lithium ion batteries&#8221; includes several different chemistries. It is those batteries with cobalt&#8211;the ones commonly used in mobile phones &amp; laptops&#8211;that are most susceptible to thermal runaway, a la the flaming-laptop videos.</p>
<p>Other chemistries, including manganese and iron-phosphate, do not share this problem. The crucial question: If a cell suffers an internal short, is there enough oxygen bound into the chemistry to allow it to self-oxidize (i.e. burn) without external air to feed it?</p>
<p>It appears that Toyota, with its long-term battery partner Panasonic, initially bet on the wrong Li-ion chemistry, one that included cobalt. GM, on the other hand, is pursuing two different chemistries for its Volt batteries via development contracts with LG Chem and A123 Systems.</p>
<p>See the longer article on Li-ion batteries for automotive use in the link connected to my name for more detail.</p>
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		<title>By: EP</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8760</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Thanks, but is it really that grievous? One of the points I was trying to make was &quot;loss&quot; isn&#039;t just about how many watts are lost over the transmission wires, it&#039;s how much does it cost, in all, factoring in loss-across-wires (7.5%? Ok. I&#039;ll go with that) plus cost of the grid (I have no idea) plus cost to homes to upgrade to have more power, plus cost to the utility companies to really scale the whole grid up?
Currently, just the cost of cost-per-kW going over the grid is as high as 2.5c / kW - that&#039;s what it costs to produce the power locally, given diesel and a BSFC of about .25 (common).  I.E. if it was free to produce the power (fully amortized hydro electricity?) it&#039;s still costing you (in dollars) about the same to SEND that power, than it would cost someone to produce locally.  So, basically, I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s really outragious to claim that producing that much power locally can be more efficient.  It&#039;s arguable, but not far-fetched.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, but is it really that grievous? One of the points I was trying to make was &#8220;loss&#8221; isn&#8217;t just about how many watts are lost over the transmission wires, it&#8217;s how much does it cost, in all, factoring in loss-across-wires (7.5%? Ok. I&#8217;ll go with that) plus cost of the grid (I have no idea) plus cost to homes to upgrade to have more power, plus cost to the utility companies to really scale the whole grid up?<br />
Currently, just the cost of cost-per-kW going over the grid is as high as 2.5c / kW &#8211; that&#8217;s what it costs to produce the power locally, given diesel and a BSFC of about .25 (common).  I.E. if it was free to produce the power (fully amortized hydro electricity?) it&#8217;s still costing you (in dollars) about the same to SEND that power, than it would cost someone to produce locally.  So, basically, I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s really outragious to claim that producing that much power locally can be more efficient.  It&#8217;s arguable, but not far-fetched.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/sorry-you-cant-drive-that-canadian-car-in-canada/#comment-8759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Good point about the high amp requirements.  However, that is really a grievous exaggeration of power line losses.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also good point about the optimum-operation engines.  That&#039;s basically what most diesel locomotives are: mobile power electric power plants where the electricity just powers electric motors on the wheels.  And I think that&#039;s what many of the hybrid city buses use too, but I&#039;m not sure.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about the high amp requirements.  However, that is really a grievous exaggeration of power line losses.</p>
<p>Also good point about the optimum-operation engines.  That&#8217;s basically what most diesel locomotives are: mobile power electric power plants where the electricity just powers electric motors on the wheels.  And I think that&#8217;s what many of the hybrid city buses use too, but I&#8217;m not sure.</p>
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