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	<title>Comments on: Rapid Charging Electric Cars: How Fast, How Soon?</title>
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		<title>By: Electric Car Roadtrip! Courtesy of SolarCity</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21428</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Electric Car Roadtrip! Courtesy of SolarCity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] stations are fast-charging, meaning that they feed electricity into the vehicles more speedily than standard wall outlets. But [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] stations are fast-charging, meaning that they feed electricity into the vehicles more speedily than standard wall outlets. But [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Better Place and Battery-Swapping Standards &#124; EnerBLOG</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Better Place and Battery-Swapping Standards &#124; EnerBLOG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 04:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] that the model seeks to address will be overcome in the near future (e.g. quick-charging and high-voltage infrastructure). Others are of the mind that swapping stations may be an expensive band aid for a broken bone. [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that the model seeks to address will be overcome in the near future (e.g. quick-charging and high-voltage infrastructure). Others are of the mind that swapping stations may be an expensive band aid for a broken bone. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;440V AC dangerous?  Only to people dumb enough to stick their fingers in sockets.  It&#039;s FAR more dangerous trusting the public to deal with a gasoline pumps.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t worry about it.  Electrical safety can be engineered in whatever voltage is used.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ultra fast-charge stations would work better for me than swapping batteries.  Why?  Battery swapping requires standardized batteries which will freeze design progress.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>440V AC dangerous?  Only to people dumb enough to stick their fingers in sockets.  It&#8217;s FAR more dangerous trusting the public to deal with a gasoline pumps.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t worry about it.  Electrical safety can be engineered in whatever voltage is used.</p>
<p>Ultra fast-charge stations would work better for me than swapping batteries.  Why?  Battery swapping requires standardized batteries which will freeze design progress.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Rapid charging is so easy you&#039;ll all fall over and laugh about this debate once charge points start to get installed. 99.99% of the infrastructure is already there connected to every building and running down every steet.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The reality is there is pretty much no NEED to have a 5 min rapid charger at any residential address, because an EV has all night to charge at home. So it will be commercial locations that install rapid chargers for EV drivers away from their home in need of a top up and in most cases these locations already have 480v 3 phase installed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s all too easy... and about 1/1,000,000 th the effort of installing a hydrogen infrastructure from scratch!&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rapid charging is so easy you&#8217;ll all fall over and laugh about this debate once charge points start to get installed. 99.99% of the infrastructure is already there connected to every building and running down every steet.</p>
<p>The reality is there is pretty much no NEED to have a 5 min rapid charger at any residential address, because an EV has all night to charge at home. So it will be commercial locations that install rapid chargers for EV drivers away from their home in need of a top up and in most cases these locations already have 480v 3 phase installed.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all too easy&#8230; and about 1/1,000,000 th the effort of installing a hydrogen infrastructure from scratch!</p>
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		<title>By: stopcrazypp</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21424</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stopcrazypp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;@bob gee
I don&#039;t know where you got 157 miles. The Roadster can go 244 miles EPA. The old number was 221. That means typical range is at least 200 miles per charge.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The battery pack has a capacity of 56kWh. At 80% charging efficiency that&#039;s 70kWh. Divide it by 200 miles and I get 350Wh/mi. Then I get 5.6 cents per mile which puts it exactly at your Civic&#039;s cost @ $1.94 per gallon.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Gasoline prices change fairly rapidly. Just last year the story would have been completely different, so it&#039;s hard to say which is worst, the electricity price&#039;s dependence on usage or the volatile gasoline prices. However, further down the line I think gas prices will rise much higher than electricity prices just because electricity sources are much more diverse.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The expensive batteries are definitely a concern, but I think battery prices (in relation to capacity) are still heading down (~5% / year in commodity cells, the more advanced cells don&#039;t seem to be getting cheaper yet but they aren&#039;t made in large volumes yet). $14k for a 56kWh pack is already a good price even for costs. A typical EV can do with a smaller 35kWh pack for 100+ miles of range which is $9k. That&#039;s not too bad, if battery prices keep going down, then a BEV-100 of near cost parity (referring to same size of car) becomes possible. Tesla&#039;s goal of releasing a $30k car seems like it should be achievable in a few years (I&#039;m waiting for that one, looking for a $30k EV, 5 door hatch preferred, size around the Civic, and must pass crash tests). EVs don&#039;t have to be small or impractical, the Tesla Model S is a great example.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Only in the backdrop of the economy it might seem like the money is better spent elsewhere, but since the funds were specifically set aside for advanced technology vehicles I think Tesla deserves as much a chance at it as the other company applying for the money. Also hopefully by the end of 2011 (when the Model S car is due) our economy has recovered somewhat. EVs are as good as a technology as any of the others to support. PHEVs/EREVs can fill the gap and provide a cheaper alternative to BEVs until battery prices decline enough to take out the ICE. The only other similar alternative is hydrogen and the economics on those cars are even worst so far.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bob gee<br />
I don&#8217;t know where you got 157 miles. The Roadster can go 244 miles EPA. The old number was 221. That means typical range is at least 200 miles per charge.</p>
<p>The battery pack has a capacity of 56kWh. At 80% charging efficiency that&#8217;s 70kWh. Divide it by 200 miles and I get 350Wh/mi. Then I get 5.6 cents per mile which puts it exactly at your Civic&#8217;s cost @ $1.94 per gallon.</p>
<p>Gasoline prices change fairly rapidly. Just last year the story would have been completely different, so it&#8217;s hard to say which is worst, the electricity price&#8217;s dependence on usage or the volatile gasoline prices. However, further down the line I think gas prices will rise much higher than electricity prices just because electricity sources are much more diverse.</p>
<p>The expensive batteries are definitely a concern, but I think battery prices (in relation to capacity) are still heading down (~5% / year in commodity cells, the more advanced cells don&#8217;t seem to be getting cheaper yet but they aren&#8217;t made in large volumes yet). $14k for a 56kWh pack is already a good price even for costs. A typical EV can do with a smaller 35kWh pack for 100+ miles of range which is $9k. That&#8217;s not too bad, if battery prices keep going down, then a BEV-100 of near cost parity (referring to same size of car) becomes possible. Tesla&#8217;s goal of releasing a $30k car seems like it should be achievable in a few years (I&#8217;m waiting for that one, looking for a $30k EV, 5 door hatch preferred, size around the Civic, and must pass crash tests). EVs don&#8217;t have to be small or impractical, the Tesla Model S is a great example.</p>
<p>Only in the backdrop of the economy it might seem like the money is better spent elsewhere, but since the funds were specifically set aside for advanced technology vehicles I think Tesla deserves as much a chance at it as the other company applying for the money. Also hopefully by the end of 2011 (when the Model S car is due) our economy has recovered somewhat. EVs are as good as a technology as any of the others to support. PHEVs/EREVs can fill the gap and provide a cheaper alternative to BEVs until battery prices decline enough to take out the ICE. The only other similar alternative is hydrogen and the economics on those cars are even worst so far.</p>
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		<title>By: bob gee</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bob gee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Without accessories running, the Tesla Roadster consumes 275 Wh/mi of energy from a battery. While government data suggests the retail price of electricity is somewhere around 10 cents per KWH, the addition of taxes and fees puts the price somewhere aorund 16 cents per KWH on my electric bill. The price goes up with demand and usage.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;With accessories running, the Tesla Roadster will consume around 350 Wh/mi from the battery, but it takes about 440 Wh from the electric company to provide the 350 Wh per mile because of losses in the charging process. That&#039;s 7 cents worth of electricity per mile driven. With a 55KWH battery, range is only 157 miles.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My Honda Civic averages 34+ MPG over a year period. At $1.94 a gallon , that&#039;s 5.7 cents a a mile, 1.3 cents per mile cheaper than driving an EV of similar wieght.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The thing that bothers me the most about Tesla is not the range or cost of driving an EV. It&#039;s that Elon Musk might risk $350 million US taxpayer dollars on something that will end up costing consumers more money. The taxpayers gain absolutely nothing, not even a stake in the company, just the risk. Why should my hard earned money go to support his hobby?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lithium battery pricing is currently projected to drop to $1 per KWH by the end of 2009. Ultimately, some believe a cost, not price, of $0.25 might be achievable. That&#039;s still at least a $13,750 per electric vehicle cost for a range of 157 miles in a very small, impractical vehicle, using the most optimistic projection. It gets worse in a larger vehicle.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;With our current economy, I guess it&#039;s no longer a secret that politicians and executives running our country are not very good at simple math. Maybe throwing more money away is expected. Elon Musk is going to get about $5 of my hard earned money based on my fair share of taxes. I should at least own $5 worth of Tesla in return.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m depressed.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without accessories running, the Tesla Roadster consumes 275 Wh/mi of energy from a battery. While government data suggests the retail price of electricity is somewhere around 10 cents per KWH, the addition of taxes and fees puts the price somewhere aorund 16 cents per KWH on my electric bill. The price goes up with demand and usage.</p>
<p>With accessories running, the Tesla Roadster will consume around 350 Wh/mi from the battery, but it takes about 440 Wh from the electric company to provide the 350 Wh per mile because of losses in the charging process. That&#8217;s 7 cents worth of electricity per mile driven. With a 55KWH battery, range is only 157 miles.</p>
<p>My Honda Civic averages 34+ MPG over a year period. At $1.94 a gallon , that&#8217;s 5.7 cents a a mile, 1.3 cents per mile cheaper than driving an EV of similar wieght.</p>
<p>The thing that bothers me the most about Tesla is not the range or cost of driving an EV. It&#8217;s that Elon Musk might risk $350 million US taxpayer dollars on something that will end up costing consumers more money. The taxpayers gain absolutely nothing, not even a stake in the company, just the risk. Why should my hard earned money go to support his hobby?</p>
<p>Lithium battery pricing is currently projected to drop to $1 per KWH by the end of 2009. Ultimately, some believe a cost, not price, of $0.25 might be achievable. That&#8217;s still at least a $13,750 per electric vehicle cost for a range of 157 miles in a very small, impractical vehicle, using the most optimistic projection. It gets worse in a larger vehicle.</p>
<p>With our current economy, I guess it&#8217;s no longer a secret that politicians and executives running our country are not very good at simple math. Maybe throwing more money away is expected. Elon Musk is going to get about $5 of my hard earned money based on my fair share of taxes. I should at least own $5 worth of Tesla in return.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m depressed.</p>
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		<title>By: House Dems Unveil Climate Plan: Carbon Cuts, National RPS and More $$$</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[House Dems Unveil Climate Plan: Carbon Cuts, National RPS and More $$$]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] EV demonstration projects, including charging infrastructure. (The draft calls out two examples: fast-charging infrastructure and battery exchange stations &#8212; a possible boon for Better [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] EV demonstration projects, including charging infrastructure. (The draft calls out two examples: fast-charging infrastructure and battery exchange stations &#8212; a possible boon for Better [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rapid Charging Electric Cars: How Fast, How Soon? &#124; AUTOSTOMPER.COM</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rapid Charging Electric Cars: How Fast, How Soon? &#124; AUTOSTOMPER.COM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] Originally posted here:  Rapid Charging Electric Cars: How Fast, How Soon? [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Originally posted here:  Rapid Charging Electric Cars: How Fast, How Soon? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BoomTownBiloxi</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21420</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BoomTownBiloxi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;You can charge it in the night... what&#039;s the fear of change?&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can charge it in the night&#8230; what&#8217;s the fear of change?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;This is definitely the biggest hurtle that EVs have in my mind. My parents live about 180 miles away, which is well outside the range of most electric cars. If I&#039;d have to plan on stopping somewhere for an hour in the middle of a 3 hour drive, just to refuel, I&#039;d feel pretty compelled to stick with a gasoline/diesel vehicle.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And even if a car&#039;s range is 100 miles, on a day where there is a strong headwind, I&#039;d probably have to stop twice to recharge. That&#039;s a deal breaker for me.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is definitely the biggest hurtle that EVs have in my mind. My parents live about 180 miles away, which is well outside the range of most electric cars. If I&#8217;d have to plan on stopping somewhere for an hour in the middle of a 3 hour drive, just to refuel, I&#8217;d feel pretty compelled to stick with a gasoline/diesel vehicle.</p>
<p>And even if a car&#8217;s range is 100 miles, on a day where there is a strong headwind, I&#8217;d probably have to stop twice to recharge. That&#8217;s a deal breaker for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/rapid-charging-electric-cars-how-fast-how-soon/#comment-21418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=27440#comment-21418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t want to wait for my car to charge. I want to plug it in when I&#039;m doing other things, be it at home or at the mall.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Charging should be passive, not only charging when the battery is completely dead, but constantly keeping your battery topped off by charging little bits, everywhere your park.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For longer trips, when in-between (active) charging is necessary, the maximum acceptable waiting time would be 20-30 minutes for me.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to wait for my car to charge. I want to plug it in when I&#8217;m doing other things, be it at home or at the mall.</p>
<p>Charging should be passive, not only charging when the battery is completely dead, but constantly keeping your battery topped off by charging little bits, everywhere your park.</p>
<p>For longer trips, when in-between (active) charging is necessary, the maximum acceptable waiting time would be 20-30 minutes for me.</p>
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