Comments on: Lessons From a Wind Power Milestone

By: Casey Verdant

Casey Verdant — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 03:36:17 +0000

Windmills aren’t just for Don Quixote! Great news from Platts that more than 50% of Spain’s energy comes from wind power.

If you’re interested in wind energy, check out http://www.greencollareconomy.com. It has hundreds of case studies on emerging green technology and wind farms. It’s also the largest b2b green directory on the web.

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:54:46 +0000

Found a great site (courtesy of the Carbon Commentary link above).

On this page you can pick a date and see Spanish wind performance across a 30 hour period, updated every 3 minutes.

It gives lie to the wind suddenly starts and stops stuff. It shows one what happens when you link together a number of wind farms over a wide geographical area.

http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp#

There’s some other very good stuff on this site. You can see the daily prediction of what demand will be and then see the actual demand posted at three minute intervals.

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:50:04 +0000

Perhaps you don't understand large wind because you sell small wind?

Larger the blade sweep, more bang for the buck is the simple answer. That's why commercial blades get longer and longer as time goes on.

Plus getting up high into unobstructed air helps a lot. Some that small wind isn't going to do.

Transmission loss is a minor problem.

Make the lines large enough, even going to HVDC if the carry is long.

Create on-farm storage so that peaks can be stored and shipped when wind is lower. That means smaller diameter wire can be used - match it to average flow, not size it for peak output.

By: eric erwind

eric erwind — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:19:26 +0000

Hurricane Wind Power low rpm grid tied wind generators and turbines make power locally so all the power is not lost in line resistance...sometimes I do not understand all the attention on large wind

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:47:58 +0000

Here’s, what seem to me, to be a more balanced article on Spain’s wind turbines. It points out that Spain was not able to deal with high winds in November 2008 and had to shut down some turbines.

But this November 2009 event was well handled by their grid and they were able to either utilize the power or store the excess with pump-up hydro.

And the article gives a nice description of the severe storm that hit the area last January and during which some turbines had to be shut down for their protection.

Spain is currently hampered by not being well connected to the rest of Europe. But as the European SuperGrid develops this will make Spain’s wind parks even more functional.

Good read – good timeline graphs – recommend….
http://www.carboncommentary.com/2009/11/15/853

By: MTReese

MTReese — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:36:41 +0000

@Paul and Bob--Thanks for your comments. Part of the reason I think the Spanish wind industry is continually touting its success is to justify its preferred position, not just in terms of preference on the grid, but also with regard to subsidies the industry receives. Another reason is, well, their efforts have been successful. They've built a huge amount of wind capacity and sometimes, in the wee hours, there's enough wind blowing to generate a lot of energy (perhaps with some help by taking some units offline as Rick suggested).

By: MTReese

MTReese — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:17:09 +0000

@Rick--The Platts article reported 11,546 MW of total generation by wind at 14:30 on November 8th. Tellingly, to your point re backing down generation units, the article went on to say: "Spanish market sources said that had the country's electricity network not been so flexible then over-the-counter day-ahead power prices may have even entered negative territory." Day-ahead prices on November 6 hit a 32-month low ($40.10/Mhr), according to the article.

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:02:47 +0000

"What is this ‘one source must dominate’ argument?"

Whenever I see it, it seems to be a creation of the nuclear industry. In their fight to get us to spend taxpayer money to build new reactors they try to focus on the argument that wind, alone, won't fill our grid.

Part of their FUD strategy....

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:38:53 +0000

What is this ‘one source must dominate’ argument?

Wind turbines in Spain routinely account for a significant percentage of total power used, but Spain also runs Nuclear, Coal, Solar. They reset this % record regularly.

Spain has over 16 GW worth of turbines installed (a large coal plant is 1GW) and in 2008 Wind energy alone covered 11.5% of total demand. They are aiming to have 21 GW wind capacity installed and cover 30% of the nations total annual demand!

http://electric-vehicles-cars-bikes.blogspot.com/2009/03/spain-sets-new-wind-power-record.html

By: Rick

Rick — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:38:20 +0000

Interesting points but what were missing were the numbers. I understand what 50% is but I'm curious as to how many megawatts of demand was being served that early Sunday morning and how many megawatts of wind was being generated. Worthy of note would have been comparing scale between say California and Spain. Further, I'm curious how many generation units had to be backed down to their minimum output to allow the unpredictable wind to serve load before having to ramp those same units up 5 hours later. Finally, mentioning what the hourly price of the energy for those five hours was would be helpful. I enjoyed it though, thanks.