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	<title>Comments on: Cleantech Counterpoint: How California Can Learn From Spain&#039;s Clean Power Folly</title>
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	<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/</link>
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		<title>By: Funky Monkeys Spain Solo</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Funky Monkeys Spain Solo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Hey Jeff&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Would love to hear your response to the comments from your contributors about Calzada&#039;s utterly discredited study. Turns out one of Spain&#039;s few actual industrial success stories is the renewable energy sector.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Regards&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jeff</p>
<p>Would love to hear your response to the comments from your contributors about Calzada&#8217;s utterly discredited study. Turns out one of Spain&#8217;s few actual industrial success stories is the renewable energy sector.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>By: lewis</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I bet if this happened INSIDE the US nothing would be published in the media.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At best we´d get a couple of articles in some blogs and that´s it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For the US can´t cope with the fact that other countries are taking the lead on greentech.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That´s why the US for example insists in corn and other crap as ethanol sources instead of just going for sugar cane, which is a time PROVEN technology.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So let us do the old american thing: &quot;If we can´t do it nobody else will!&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When the US takes its head out of its ass maybe it will be a world leader in greentech technologies and will not need to keep bashing projects abroad instead.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet if this happened INSIDE the US nothing would be published in the media.</p>
<p>At best we´d get a couple of articles in some blogs and that´s it.</p>
<p>For the US can´t cope with the fact that other countries are taking the lead on greentech.</p>
<p>That´s why the US for example insists in corn and other crap as ethanol sources instead of just going for sugar cane, which is a time PROVEN technology.</p>
<p>So let us do the old american thing: &#8220;If we can´t do it nobody else will!&#8221;</p>
<p>When the US takes its head out of its ass maybe it will be a world leader in greentech technologies and will not need to keep bashing projects abroad instead.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s also this rebuttal of Calzada&#039;s study by a minister of one of Spain&#039;s regions:
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/letter-from-navarra-ministerapril-2009.pdf&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Look forward to seeing your responses to these critiques soon Jeff.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also this rebuttal of Calzada&#8217;s study by a minister of one of Spain&#8217;s regions:<br />
<a href="http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/letter-from-navarra-ministerapril-2009.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/letter-from-navarra-ministerapril-2009.pdf</a></p>
<p>Look forward to seeing your responses to these critiques soon Jeff.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Jeff - how about responding to the critique of the Calzada study you quoted so approvingly that Bob Wallace posted a link to earlier?
http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; how about responding to the critique of the Calzada study you quoted so approvingly that Bob Wallace posted a link to earlier?<br />
<a href="http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm" rel="nofollow">http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Jeff - you don&#039;t seem too keen to respond to this valid critique of the Calzada study that you quote so positively that Bob Wallace also posted a link to above:
http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s another rebuttal of Calzada&#039;s study at http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/letter-from-navarra-ministerapril-2009.pdf&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I look forward to seeing your comments on these critiques of Calzada&#039;s study.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; you don&#8217;t seem too keen to respond to this valid critique of the Calzada study that you quote so positively that Bob Wallace also posted a link to above:<br />
<a href="http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm" rel="nofollow">http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm</a></p>
<p>There&#8217;s another rebuttal of Calzada&#8217;s study at <a href="http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/letter-from-navarra-ministerapril-2009.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/letter-from-navarra-ministerapril-2009.pdf</a></p>
<p>I look forward to seeing your comments on these critiques of Calzada&#8217;s study.</p>
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		<title>By: mika.</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mika.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Maybe a related problem is a “a billion or two” gets thrown around as if it were loose change instead of money that gets borrowed or taxed out of the economy? Maybe?&quot;

&lt;p&gt;It is loose change. We spend over a trillion a year subsidizing oil. Yes, trillion with a &quot;T&quot;. There&#039;s absolutely no excuse for the US to be in the ME, other than to subsidize the oil mafia thru this trillion dollar insurance policy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The solar and wind industries don&#039;t compete in a vacuum. They compete in an environment where entrenched mafias have a lock on funding, politicians, and policy. I myself am a Libertarian, and would like nothing better than the elimination of the IRS and the federal gov. But until that happens, articles like the one above serve as a little more than propaganda pieces for the entrenched mafia and the status quo.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Maybe a related problem is a “a billion or two” gets thrown around as if it were loose change instead of money that gets borrowed or taxed out of the economy? Maybe?&#8221;</p>
<p>It is loose change. We spend over a trillion a year subsidizing oil. Yes, trillion with a &#8220;T&#8221;. There&#8217;s absolutely no excuse for the US to be in the ME, other than to subsidize the oil mafia thru this trillion dollar insurance policy.</p>
<p>The solar and wind industries don&#8217;t compete in a vacuum. They compete in an environment where entrenched mafias have a lock on funding, politicians, and policy. I myself am a Libertarian, and would like nothing better than the elimination of the IRS and the federal gov. But until that happens, articles like the one above serve as a little more than propaganda pieces for the entrenched mafia and the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: mika.</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mika.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe a related problem is a “a billion or two” gets thrown around as if it were loose change instead of money that gets borrowed or taxed out of the economy? Maybe?

&lt;p&gt;It is loose change. We spend over a trillion a year subsidizing the oil. Yes, trillion with a &quot;T&quot;. There&#039;s absolutely no excuse for the US to be in the ME, other than to subsidize the oil mafia thru this trillion dollar insurance policy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The solar and wind industries don&#039;t compete in a vacuum. They compete in an environment where entrenched mafias have a lock on funding, politicians, and policy. I myself am a Libertarian, and would like nothing better than the elimination of the IRS and the federal gov. But until that happens, articles like the one above serve as a little more than propaganda pieces for the entrenched mafia and the status quo.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe a related problem is a “a billion or two” gets thrown around as if it were loose change instead of money that gets borrowed or taxed out of the economy? Maybe?</p>
<p>It is loose change. We spend over a trillion a year subsidizing the oil. Yes, trillion with a &#8220;T&#8221;. There&#8217;s absolutely no excuse for the US to be in the ME, other than to subsidize the oil mafia thru this trillion dollar insurance policy.</p>
<p>The solar and wind industries don&#8217;t compete in a vacuum. They compete in an environment where entrenched mafias have a lock on funding, politicians, and policy. I myself am a Libertarian, and would like nothing better than the elimination of the IRS and the federal gov. But until that happens, articles like the one above serve as a little more than propaganda pieces for the entrenched mafia and the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nolan</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Nolan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I agree with you, subsidies and tax credits for oil and natural gas industries are wrong and should be eliminated. Similarly, exemptions from Waxman-Markey of up to 15 years for coal power plants is a cynical measure with the sole purpose of buying votes to pass the bill. I plan on writing about biofuel market manipulation in a future column but suffice to say it hasn&#039;t exactly worked out to the benefit of taxpayers or the companies involved (e.g. VeraSun bankruptcy).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Car company bailouts and DOE low interest loans for car companies that can&#039;t otherwise sell debt on their own are little more than stripping dollars out of taxpayer wallets. I wrote in opposition of the first and second round of car company bailouts and when the next round comes due in 2010 I will be of the same position.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe a related problem is a &quot;a billion or two&quot; gets thrown around as if it were loose change instead of money that gets borrowed or taxed out of the economy? Maybe?&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, subsidies and tax credits for oil and natural gas industries are wrong and should be eliminated. Similarly, exemptions from Waxman-Markey of up to 15 years for coal power plants is a cynical measure with the sole purpose of buying votes to pass the bill. I plan on writing about biofuel market manipulation in a future column but suffice to say it hasn&#8217;t exactly worked out to the benefit of taxpayers or the companies involved (e.g. VeraSun bankruptcy).</p>
<p>Car company bailouts and DOE low interest loans for car companies that can&#8217;t otherwise sell debt on their own are little more than stripping dollars out of taxpayer wallets. I wrote in opposition of the first and second round of car company bailouts and when the next round comes due in 2010 I will be of the same position.</p>
<p>Maybe a related problem is a &#8220;a billion or two&#8221; gets thrown around as if it were loose change instead of money that gets borrowed or taxed out of the economy? Maybe?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;&quot;The idea that CA would be a net exporter of power isn’t plausible considering that are neighboring states already produce more than their domestic demand requires and with pricing essentially fixed producers would simply run below capacity because they can’t put power on the grid if there is no buyer to wheel it to.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, let&#039;s consider two of Ca&#039;s neighbors, Nevada which gets 50% of its electricity from coal and Arizona which gets 43% from coal.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Suppose CA produces a surplus of renewable electricity and Congress puts a price on carbon release which drives up the cost of burning coal.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;End result?  Coal plants in NV and AZ shut down.  Which is exactly what the whole world needs.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Possible?  Well, using some quick and dirty numbers&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Coal-electricity is $0.03 kWh&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wind-electricity $0.05 kWh (more like $0.03 kWh best case/best sites/newest tech)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;First Solar has been able to install solar at $0.075 kWh (without subsidies).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It wouldn&#039;t take much of a carbon pricing to move coal up to or above the price of wind.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And it makes no sense to run a coal plant full tilt boogie 24 hours a day and then sell only to peak demand hours.  Solar at $0.20 kWh would be a better financial decision.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The idea that CA would be a net exporter of power isn’t plausible considering that are neighboring states already produce more than their domestic demand requires and with pricing essentially fixed producers would simply run below capacity because they can’t put power on the grid if there is no buyer to wheel it to.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, let&#8217;s consider two of Ca&#8217;s neighbors, Nevada which gets 50% of its electricity from coal and Arizona which gets 43% from coal.</p>
<p>Suppose CA produces a surplus of renewable electricity and Congress puts a price on carbon release which drives up the cost of burning coal.</p>
<p>End result?  Coal plants in NV and AZ shut down.  Which is exactly what the whole world needs.</p>
<p>Possible?  Well, using some quick and dirty numbers</p>
<p>Coal-electricity is $0.03 kWh</p>
<p>Wind-electricity $0.05 kWh (more like $0.03 kWh best case/best sites/newest tech)</p>
<p>First Solar has been able to install solar at $0.075 kWh (without subsidies).</p>
<p>It wouldn&#8217;t take much of a carbon pricing to move coal up to or above the price of wind.</p>
<p>And it makes no sense to run a coal plant full tilt boogie 24 hours a day and then sell only to peak demand hours.  Solar at $0.20 kWh would be a better financial decision.</p>
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		<title>By: mika.</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/cleantech-counterpoint-how-california-can-learn-from-spains-clean-power-folly/#comment-27310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mika.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=42282#comment-27310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The result has been that it’s basically subsidized companies’ losses and the true costs of renewable energy development has not been passed on to the consumer.&quot;

&lt;p&gt;The subsidies the solar and wind energy industries receive are a tiny fraction of the subsidies and tax breaks the oil/nuke/NG/biofuel/coal energy suppliers receive. My contention is very simple. If we were to eliminate all subsidies, direct and indirect, I have no doubt that solar and wind would come on top. Perhaps, Jeff, instead of writing half truths and misdirections, you will address the trillion dollar subsidies the car/oil/military mafia receives vs the measly billion or two that the solar and wind energy industries receive.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The result has been that it’s basically subsidized companies’ losses and the true costs of renewable energy development has not been passed on to the consumer.&#8221;</p>
<p>The subsidies the solar and wind energy industries receive are a tiny fraction of the subsidies and tax breaks the oil/nuke/NG/biofuel/coal energy suppliers receive. My contention is very simple. If we were to eliminate all subsidies, direct and indirect, I have no doubt that solar and wind would come on top. Perhaps, Jeff, instead of writing half truths and misdirections, you will address the trillion dollar subsidies the car/oil/military mafia receives vs the measly billion or two that the solar and wind energy industries receive.</p>
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