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	<title>Comments on: Better Place Pops the Hood, Gears Up for All-or-Nothing Rollout</title>
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		<title>By: Coulombs, Better Places of the World to Open Doors for Smaller Startups?</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22291</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coulombs, Better Places of the World to Open Doors for Smaller Startups?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 21:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] engineering contingent working in-house&#8221; doesn&#8217;t build all its own software. When we visited the Better Place headquarters earlier this year, Sidney Goodman, VP of automotive alliances, said, &#8220;We&#8217;re not [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] engineering contingent working in-house&#8221; doesn&#8217;t build all its own software. When we visited the Better Place headquarters earlier this year, Sidney Goodman, VP of automotive alliances, said, &#8220;We&#8217;re not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Watch History (Revolution or Flop?) as Better Place Unveils Battery Swap Station</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22290</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Watch History (Revolution or Flop?) as Better Place Unveils Battery Swap Station]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 22:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] battery swap station is one of the most controversial parts of Better Place&#8217;s plan. But Sidney Goodman, Vice President of Automotive Alliances for Better Place told us that skipping the battery exchange piece altogether would mean ditching the mass market. If drivers [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] battery swap station is one of the most controversial parts of Better Place&#8217;s plan. But Sidney Goodman, Vice President of Automotive Alliances for Better Place told us that skipping the battery exchange piece altogether would mean ditching the mass market. If drivers [...]</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22289</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[james]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I was talking about using compressed air ONLY for recharging on-board batteries when they run out low on juice. In other words, in place of the gas-run engine to run a generator in a Plug-in EV.
Doesn&#039;t that come across in my first comment? People seem to be responding by comparing an EV to a compressed air vehicle. Not what I had in mind.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking about using compressed air ONLY for recharging on-board batteries when they run out low on juice. In other words, in place of the gas-run engine to run a generator in a Plug-in EV.<br />
Doesn&#8217;t that come across in my first comment? People seem to be responding by comparing an EV to a compressed air vehicle. Not what I had in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22288</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Wow, a nice dose of Reality!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Solar PV is probably $5.00 per watt installed, so something able to charge 8 kw-hrs/day would be about 1kW or about $5000.  To displace about $1 of electricity per day.  Call it $2 to account for the carbon improvement.  Even so, that&#039;s 2500 days to pay for itself.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for the entropy in compressed air, etc., you aren&#039;t really comparing apples with apples.  Compressed air is a stored energy source (a &#039;fuel&#039;, if you will) and as such is considerably more convenient than the un-stored electricity powering the electric motor.  Unless you have an extension cord, that too has to be stored somewhere, like a battery or whatever.  The round-trip efficiency of charging/discharging a battery might be better than air compression, but the battery is more expensive than the compressed air tank.  So the calculation is a bit more complex.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Overall, any energy storage from renewable sources, be it via batteries, compressed air, or even hydrogen, is ungodly expensive compared with present day gasoline prices.  These costs are best mitigated by PHEV technology, which uses a small amount of stored renewable energy to do short drives, but uses the density of fossil fuels to provde the range needed by the consumer.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, a nice dose of Reality!</p>
<p>Solar PV is probably $5.00 per watt installed, so something able to charge 8 kw-hrs/day would be about 1kW or about $5000.  To displace about $1 of electricity per day.  Call it $2 to account for the carbon improvement.  Even so, that&#8217;s 2500 days to pay for itself.</p>
<p>As for the entropy in compressed air, etc., you aren&#8217;t really comparing apples with apples.  Compressed air is a stored energy source (a &#8216;fuel&#8217;, if you will) and as such is considerably more convenient than the un-stored electricity powering the electric motor.  Unless you have an extension cord, that too has to be stored somewhere, like a battery or whatever.  The round-trip efficiency of charging/discharging a battery might be better than air compression, but the battery is more expensive than the compressed air tank.  So the calculation is a bit more complex.</p>
<p>Overall, any energy storage from renewable sources, be it via batteries, compressed air, or even hydrogen, is ungodly expensive compared with present day gasoline prices.  These costs are best mitigated by PHEV technology, which uses a small amount of stored renewable energy to do short drives, but uses the density of fossil fuels to provde the range needed by the consumer.</p>
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		<title>By: Reality</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reality]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;James, I&#039;d love to see you cost out $$ the number of kW of solar PV capacity you&#039;d need to charge your vehicle everyday (which by the way you&#039;d have to charge during the day unless you plan on buying multiple expensive batteries to swap out.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for compressed air,  the entropy losses on this are ridiculous. They are 15% efficient vs 90% for an electric motor. With your carport idea you are going photons-to-DC to-compressor-to-mechanical energy in a custom car that runs on air. c&#039;mon..  And look at how shrimpy and slow these things are http://www.mdi.lu/english/&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Compare this to the $0.08 (or less) a kWh you&#039;d get charging your EV or PHEV car with grid electricity at night.  Solar carport? , get real..   It is economically unrealistic misdirection like yours that is eating away at the progress we are making educating America through this important transition.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, I&#8217;d love to see you cost out $$ the number of kW of solar PV capacity you&#8217;d need to charge your vehicle everyday (which by the way you&#8217;d have to charge during the day unless you plan on buying multiple expensive batteries to swap out.)</p>
<p>As for compressed air,  the entropy losses on this are ridiculous. They are 15% efficient vs 90% for an electric motor. With your carport idea you are going photons-to-DC to-compressor-to-mechanical energy in a custom car that runs on air. c&#8217;mon..  And look at how shrimpy and slow these things are <a href="http://www.mdi.lu/english/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mdi.lu/english/</a></p>
<p>Compare this to the $0.08 (or less) a kWh you&#8217;d get charging your EV or PHEV car with grid electricity at night.  Solar carport? , get real..   It is economically unrealistic misdirection like yours that is eating away at the progress we are making educating America through this important transition.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22286</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[james]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I agree with James above. And if you don&#039;t care to even use E85 fuel, why not use compressed air? Then you don&#039;t need to worry about unused fuel sitting in a tank for possibly a month or more when you are not taking any longer range trips. I read that fuel sitting in a tank could pose a problem. Carbon fiber tanks are safe and will not explode on impact- they just split open and release the air. And you can get air at any gas station currently (whether the pressure is sufficient, I don&#039;t know).
Does anyone know how this idea would work out? Since they have developed cars that run solely on compressed air, I would think just running a generator would work very well.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with James above. And if you don&#8217;t care to even use E85 fuel, why not use compressed air? Then you don&#8217;t need to worry about unused fuel sitting in a tank for possibly a month or more when you are not taking any longer range trips. I read that fuel sitting in a tank could pose a problem. Carbon fiber tanks are safe and will not explode on impact- they just split open and release the air. And you can get air at any gas station currently (whether the pressure is sufficient, I don&#8217;t know).<br />
Does anyone know how this idea would work out? Since they have developed cars that run solely on compressed air, I would think just running a generator would work very well.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve been against Better Place from the start.  No thanks to shackling my car to yet another corporate entity.  I plan to build a solar carport for my car and be done with both the oil and power companies.  If I have to tap the grid occasionally, so be it, but let&#039;s cut off giant conglomerates trying to control our future.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been against Better Place from the start.  No thanks to shackling my car to yet another corporate entity.  I plan to build a solar carport for my car and be done with both the oil and power companies.  If I have to tap the grid occasionally, so be it, but let&#8217;s cut off giant conglomerates trying to control our future.</p>
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		<title>By: What to read on the GigaOM network</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What to read on the GigaOM network]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] to play with (NewTeeVee) Apple OLED notebooks forthcoming, according to LG staffer (TheAppleBlog) Better Place gears up for all-or-nothing rollout (Earth2Tech)    [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to play with (NewTeeVee) Apple OLED notebooks forthcoming, according to LG staffer (TheAppleBlog) Better Place gears up for all-or-nothing rollout (Earth2Tech)    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Sidney Goodmen&#039;s logic is flawed.  If the vehicle is a plug-in hybrid, and the owner has a charge station at home, then typically, the vehicle would get charged at home for the daily miles driven and there would be no need to go to a fueling station AT ALL.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps PBP is supported by the gas station lobby, to find a reason to stop and buy that soda or bag of chips.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;GM has long understood that visiting a service station is a hated experience for drivers, and one that drivers wish to avoid.  PHEVs would reduce these visits.  Battery change stations seek to extend it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The plain truth is that without the battery change stations, BPB is really nothing at all; just a company seeking to socialize and control a fueling strategy with no net benefit to the consumer.  PHEVs accomplish everything BPB seeks to do with lower cost, and less social control.  Run them (the PHEVs) on E85 if you wish if you are concerned about gasoline usage.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sidney Goodmen&#8217;s logic is flawed.  If the vehicle is a plug-in hybrid, and the owner has a charge station at home, then typically, the vehicle would get charged at home for the daily miles driven and there would be no need to go to a fueling station AT ALL.</p>
<p>Perhaps PBP is supported by the gas station lobby, to find a reason to stop and buy that soda or bag of chips.</p>
<p>GM has long understood that visiting a service station is a hated experience for drivers, and one that drivers wish to avoid.  PHEVs would reduce these visits.  Battery change stations seek to extend it.</p>
<p>The plain truth is that without the battery change stations, BPB is really nothing at all; just a company seeking to socialize and control a fueling strategy with no net benefit to the consumer.  PHEVs accomplish everything BPB seeks to do with lower cost, and less social control.  Run them (the PHEVs) on E85 if you wish if you are concerned about gasoline usage.</p>
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		<title>By: Vuki777</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/cleantech/better-place-pops-the-hood-gears-up-for-all-or-nothing-rollout/#comment-22282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vuki777]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earth2tech.com/?p=29526#comment-22282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Better Place is in a difficult position - their solution is too expensive and too impractical. Even the only Auto Manufacturer that&#039;s working with them, Nissan, has been signing agreements with ECOtality - a manufacturer of EV fast-chargers.&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better Place is in a difficult position &#8211; their solution is too expensive and too impractical. Even the only Auto Manufacturer that&#8217;s working with them, Nissan, has been signing agreements with ECOtality &#8211; a manufacturer of EV fast-chargers.</p>
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