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	<title>Comments on: IDC Numbers: Apple&#8217;s Doing Just Fine, Thank You</title>
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		<title>By: Partners in Grime</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Partners in Grime]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll take profits over market share any day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll take profits over market share any day.</p>
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		<title>By: vdb</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vdb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are two studies out,
one that projects a total decline of -3.1 and another -0.3 for the US ... both have Apple around -1.2 ...
If you look at the total market you see that you have 2 camps, those who lower pricing, and can&#039;t (or not enough) compensate with unit growth, and the ones that keep ASP unchanged ....
More interesting would be to create a new categorie of ultra portable devices ... and just look at the &quot;real&quot; PC numbers ...
Most of the people I know bought a netpc as a second/third machine not really expanding market share ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two studies out,<br />
one that projects a total decline of -3.1 and another -0.3 for the US &#8230; both have Apple around -1.2 &#8230;<br />
If you look at the total market you see that you have 2 camps, those who lower pricing, and can&#8217;t (or not enough) compensate with unit growth, and the ones that keep ASP unchanged &#8230;.<br />
More interesting would be to create a new categorie of ultra portable devices &#8230; and just look at the &#8220;real&#8221; PC numbers &#8230;<br />
Most of the people I know bought a netpc as a second/third machine not really expanding market share &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro Cardoso</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pedro Cardoso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 04:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure I agree with your interpretation at all. Take a look at this perspective, on the same data. The bottom line is, Apple has lost market share, and will continue to do so, as there is no room for a premium product in this consumer category.  The value proposition just simply is not supported, and to compare one&#039;s laptop to one&#039;s vehicle, from a socio-economic &quot;perceptionary&quot; perspective is just ridiculous.  Welcome your thoughts, here on my blog post I have provided..

http://blogs.itworldcanada.com/idol/2009/04/15/apple_falling_netbooks_soaring/

I do enjoy following your blog, and though there is typically an &quot;appple&quot; bias to your posts, this is accepted and most of the time, balanced appropriately.  This post however, appears to reflect a reluctance to face the brutal facts.  This brand is in trouble, and would be even with Jobs on the scene - but without him, believe the leading indicators are clearly &quot;on the wall&quot;...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I agree with your interpretation at all. Take a look at this perspective, on the same data. The bottom line is, Apple has lost market share, and will continue to do so, as there is no room for a premium product in this consumer category.  The value proposition just simply is not supported, and to compare one&#8217;s laptop to one&#8217;s vehicle, from a socio-economic &#8220;perceptionary&#8221; perspective is just ridiculous.  Welcome your thoughts, here on my blog post I have provided..</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.itworldcanada.com/idol/2009/04/15/apple_falling_netbooks_soaring/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.itworldcanada.com/idol/2009/04/15/apple_falling_netbooks_soaring/</a></p>
<p>I do enjoy following your blog, and though there is typically an &#8220;appple&#8221; bias to your posts, this is accepted and most of the time, balanced appropriately.  This post however, appears to reflect a reluctance to face the brutal facts.  This brand is in trouble, and would be even with Jobs on the scene &#8211; but without him, believe the leading indicators are clearly &#8220;on the wall&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Hogg</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Hogg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It takes a misreading of my post for one to draw that conclusion. I made this clear in my first comment above.&quot;

No, your explanations don&#039;t really relate to my comment. I&#039;m saying that you&#039;re insisting on some very specific re-reading of the numbers to make Apple look even more popular, because, gosh, it can&#039;t be that Apple&#039;s not at the top of this list, can it? Who cares if they&#039;re not at the top of the list? Their market segment went up, and they&#039;re still selling lots of computers. Investor confidence is high. Who cares if they&#039;re not kicking the competition&#039;s butts?

The apologist criticism is appropriate because you first off go to pains to say why none of the numbers matter at all because the structure of the chart is wrong, and that the Mac is separate and wonderful and unique and must be considered differently, then you list seven reasons why the numbers don&#039;t really matter again, which feels very much like an apologist&#039;s viewpoint. 

Again, why does it matter? Does it take away from your enjoyment of the computer you use? Of the Apple brand? Why do you even feel the need to redress the sales charts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It takes a misreading of my post for one to draw that conclusion. I made this clear in my first comment above.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, your explanations don&#8217;t really relate to my comment. I&#8217;m saying that you&#8217;re insisting on some very specific re-reading of the numbers to make Apple look even more popular, because, gosh, it can&#8217;t be that Apple&#8217;s not at the top of this list, can it? Who cares if they&#8217;re not at the top of the list? Their market segment went up, and they&#8217;re still selling lots of computers. Investor confidence is high. Who cares if they&#8217;re not kicking the competition&#8217;s butts?</p>
<p>The apologist criticism is appropriate because you first off go to pains to say why none of the numbers matter at all because the structure of the chart is wrong, and that the Mac is separate and wonderful and unique and must be considered differently, then you list seven reasons why the numbers don&#8217;t really matter again, which feels very much like an apologist&#8217;s viewpoint. </p>
<p>Again, why does it matter? Does it take away from your enjoyment of the computer you use? Of the Apple brand? Why do you even feel the need to redress the sales charts?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Hogg</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Hogg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@18

Well, sure, if the numbers were different, then they&#039;d be different. So what? A netbook is a type of computer, so it makes sense to have them in a computer sales chart.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@18</p>
<p>Well, sure, if the numbers were different, then they&#8217;d be different. So what? A netbook is a type of computer, so it makes sense to have them in a computer sales chart.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Hogg</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Hogg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The Mac is a SUPERSET of a PC.&quot;

Supreme ego of that comment aside, it doesn&#039;t hold up, because a Mac is a PC, and as such can run on standard PC hardware. It&#039;s built using standard hardware. A person can install OS X on the same hardware that runs Linux and Windows. 

So if a Mac is a Superset of a PC, then so is a Dell, because you can install Windows, PC, and OS X. Should that also be taken off the list you show in the article? If so, then the &quot;PC industry&quot; experiences a good jump while the Mac and Dell industries take a dive ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Mac is a SUPERSET of a PC.&#8221;</p>
<p>Supreme ego of that comment aside, it doesn&#8217;t hold up, because a Mac is a PC, and as such can run on standard PC hardware. It&#8217;s built using standard hardware. A person can install OS X on the same hardware that runs Linux and Windows. </p>
<p>So if a Mac is a Superset of a PC, then so is a Dell, because you can install Windows, PC, and OS X. Should that also be taken off the list you show in the article? If so, then the &#8220;PC industry&#8221; experiences a good jump while the Mac and Dell industries take a dive &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tom B</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343909</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tom B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Mac line got a refresh part way through the quarter, which probably means the January numbers were lower than they could have been.

ALL the numbers are highly suspect for several reasons: Netbooks shouldn&#039;t be counted as PC&#039;s. A large fraction of them run LINUX instead of Windows. And the Netbooks, in capabilities can&#039;t be compared firectly to real laptops, because they basically have fewer features than an iPod Touch/iPhone, IMHO. If you take the Netbbok numbers OUT, PC shipments look pretty pathetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mac line got a refresh part way through the quarter, which probably means the January numbers were lower than they could have been.</p>
<p>ALL the numbers are highly suspect for several reasons: Netbooks shouldn&#8217;t be counted as PC&#8217;s. A large fraction of them run LINUX instead of Windows. And the Netbooks, in capabilities can&#8217;t be compared firectly to real laptops, because they basically have fewer features than an iPod Touch/iPhone, IMHO. If you take the Netbbok numbers OUT, PC shipments look pretty pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Pats</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343908</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pats]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with these statistics is right now they are estimates.  Apple does not report earnings until next week, and a small change will turn the negative to positive.  It is obvious Apple&#039;s rate of growth in the PC market has slowed, but Apple does a bit more then sell PCs so when you add up all the business segments Apple is growing at a very respectable rate for a recession.  Most companies have negative earnings during a recession and Apple reported their best quarter ever last quarter.  We spend way too much effort talking about netbooks and product categories.  If you look at use cases, the Itouch and Iphone can fill most if not all of the use cases for a netbook so if we add the 30M units into the mix the growth numbers and worldwide percentage might look slightly different.  The numbers crunchers at IDC make an arbitrary cutoff to use netbooks in the PC category, Iphones in the smart phone category and Itouch in the MP3 category.  Guess what if your using it to surf the web, you can use any of the devices I just described.  If your a stock holder then the revenue matters and for Apple it has about  30% of the US pc revenue.  If you are a buyer, buy what you want and hopefully you enjoy your purchase.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with these statistics is right now they are estimates.  Apple does not report earnings until next week, and a small change will turn the negative to positive.  It is obvious Apple&#8217;s rate of growth in the PC market has slowed, but Apple does a bit more then sell PCs so when you add up all the business segments Apple is growing at a very respectable rate for a recession.  Most companies have negative earnings during a recession and Apple reported their best quarter ever last quarter.  We spend way too much effort talking about netbooks and product categories.  If you look at use cases, the Itouch and Iphone can fill most if not all of the use cases for a netbook so if we add the 30M units into the mix the growth numbers and worldwide percentage might look slightly different.  The numbers crunchers at IDC make an arbitrary cutoff to use netbooks in the PC category, Iphones in the smart phone category and Itouch in the MP3 category.  Guess what if your using it to surf the web, you can use any of the devices I just described.  If your a stock holder then the revenue matters and for Apple it has about  30% of the US pc revenue.  If you are a buyer, buy what you want and hopefully you enjoy your purchase.</p>
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		<title>By: Constable Odo</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Constable Odo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apple should continue to sell computers exactly the same way they&#039;ve been selling them as long as they are making overall profits to keep the company well into the green.  I wonder if any of those PC makers have any long-range vision of running a profitable business.

It&#039;s a lot easier to increase market share than it is to increase profit margins.  If a company is willing to practically give away it&#039;s products and don&#039;t concern themselves with losing money on each product they sell, then it&#039;s easy to gain market share from people that are only interested in paying less money.  It&#039;s much harder to make profits unless you can prove to potential buyers your product has some higher intrinsic value.

You can tell customers it&#039;s got better parts or you&#039;ll offer better customer service or the whole package just works better than the average product.  Maybe a lot of it is due to advertising hype.  But one thing that does stand out with Apple products is that apparently far more customers are happy with using Apple products than similar Windows PCs.  Windows PC fanboy users say that Apple Mac buyers are being tricked, in some way, into paying more for almost exactly the same quality product.  Yet, overall, Windows PC users don&#039;t give their computers the same high-quality rating that Mac users do.

There must be something to that.  Does Apple put some sort of pheremone in their computers to make users enjoy them more and rate them higher?

I&#039;m not a Windows PC hater.  I use Windows XP in BootCamp on my MacBook Pro and I have absolutely no problems with it.  I run Kaspersky AV and have never had a problem with malware or virii since installing it.  I&#039;ve never seen a BSOD in the years I&#039;ve used Windows but I do reinstall Windows every couple of years or so.  However, I just like using Macs since they&#039;ve always been reliable for me for 20 plus years or so.

So, since I can afford at least some range of Macintosh computer I would never consider switching to a Windows PC.  I would never want Apple to just lower prices if they&#039;re going to cut corners in some way.  A refurb is usually a few hundred dollars cheaper, so I could always purchase one of those.

I don&#039;t feel I&#039;m being tricked into buying an Apple computer for more money.  I&#039;m an Apple shareholder and I&#039;m going to support the company.  If the stock goes up, then the computer gets paid for when I sell SOME of my stock.  Besides, after all these years, I like being part of the &quot;cool&quot; crowd.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple should continue to sell computers exactly the same way they&#8217;ve been selling them as long as they are making overall profits to keep the company well into the green.  I wonder if any of those PC makers have any long-range vision of running a profitable business.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a lot easier to increase market share than it is to increase profit margins.  If a company is willing to practically give away it&#8217;s products and don&#8217;t concern themselves with losing money on each product they sell, then it&#8217;s easy to gain market share from people that are only interested in paying less money.  It&#8217;s much harder to make profits unless you can prove to potential buyers your product has some higher intrinsic value.</p>
<p>You can tell customers it&#8217;s got better parts or you&#8217;ll offer better customer service or the whole package just works better than the average product.  Maybe a lot of it is due to advertising hype.  But one thing that does stand out with Apple products is that apparently far more customers are happy with using Apple products than similar Windows PCs.  Windows PC fanboy users say that Apple Mac buyers are being tricked, in some way, into paying more for almost exactly the same quality product.  Yet, overall, Windows PC users don&#8217;t give their computers the same high-quality rating that Mac users do.</p>
<p>There must be something to that.  Does Apple put some sort of pheremone in their computers to make users enjoy them more and rate them higher?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a Windows PC hater.  I use Windows XP in BootCamp on my MacBook Pro and I have absolutely no problems with it.  I run Kaspersky AV and have never had a problem with malware or virii since installing it.  I&#8217;ve never seen a BSOD in the years I&#8217;ve used Windows but I do reinstall Windows every couple of years or so.  However, I just like using Macs since they&#8217;ve always been reliable for me for 20 plus years or so.</p>
<p>So, since I can afford at least some range of Macintosh computer I would never consider switching to a Windows PC.  I would never want Apple to just lower prices if they&#8217;re going to cut corners in some way.  A refurb is usually a few hundred dollars cheaper, so I could always purchase one of those.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t feel I&#8217;m being tricked into buying an Apple computer for more money.  I&#8217;m an Apple shareholder and I&#8217;m going to support the company.  If the stock goes up, then the computer gets paid for when I sell SOME of my stock.  Besides, after all these years, I like being part of the &#8220;cool&#8221; crowd.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Reestman</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/apple/idc-numbers-apples-doing-just-fine-thank-you/#comment-343906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Reestman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/?p=21740#comment-343906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brian, 

&quot;A Mac IS a PC.&quot; 

Microsoft, with the PC vendors and marketing machine, are spending hundreds of millions of dollars disagreeing with you. The &quot;I&#039;m a PC&quot; campaign does not include Macs. 

Your statement is misleading at best. The Mac is a SUPERSET of a PC. Sure, it can run the Windows and Linuxes of the world, which PCs can do. But it also runs the Mac OS, with all its advantages, and affords the tight integration between hardware and software which is the hallmark of the Mac platform. Put bluntly, it&#039;s easy for a box to be a &quot;PC&quot;, what makes a Mac beautiful is that it&#039;s also a Mac. 

&quot;It makes you sound a bit like an apologist...&quot;

It takes a misreading of my post for one to draw that conclusion. I made this clear in my first comment above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, </p>
<p>&#8220;A Mac IS a PC.&#8221; </p>
<p>Microsoft, with the PC vendors and marketing machine, are spending hundreds of millions of dollars disagreeing with you. The &#8220;I&#8217;m a PC&#8221; campaign does not include Macs. </p>
<p>Your statement is misleading at best. The Mac is a SUPERSET of a PC. Sure, it can run the Windows and Linuxes of the world, which PCs can do. But it also runs the Mac OS, with all its advantages, and affords the tight integration between hardware and software which is the hallmark of the Mac platform. Put bluntly, it&#8217;s easy for a box to be a &#8220;PC&#8221;, what makes a Mac beautiful is that it&#8217;s also a Mac. </p>
<p>&#8220;It makes you sound a bit like an apologist&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>It takes a misreading of my post for one to draw that conclusion. I made this clear in my first comment above.</p>
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