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	<title>Comments on: Is your PaaS composable or contextual? (Hint: the answer matters)</title>
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	<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/</link>
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		<title>By: Chris Taylor</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1332276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Apr 2013 22:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1332276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James, great writeup. For cloud to be as revolutionary as its proponents (and hypsters) claim, it has to add composable tools delivered through the cloud version of an eclipse plug in. We wrote up our thoughts here:

http://successfulworkplace.com/2013/04/27/cloud-makes-anyone-and-everyone-a-robber-baron/

The idea that the web will follow the path of previous technology breakthroughs is very interesting. I&#039;ve watched at least thirty years of technology move through cycles of contextual and composable and why should we think we&#039;re done now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, great writeup. For cloud to be as revolutionary as its proponents (and hypsters) claim, it has to add composable tools delivered through the cloud version of an eclipse plug in. We wrote up our thoughts here:</p>
<p><a href="http://successfulworkplace.com/2013/04/27/cloud-makes-anyone-and-everyone-a-robber-baron/" rel="nofollow">http://successfulworkplace.com/2013/04/27/cloud-makes-anyone-and-everyone-a-robber-baron/</a></p>
<p>The idea that the web will follow the path of previous technology breakthroughs is very interesting. I&#8217;ve watched at least thirty years of technology move through cycles of contextual and composable and why should we think we&#8217;re done now?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Duggal</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1324422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Duggal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1324422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I could only type... http://www.enterpriseweb.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I could only type&#8230; <a href="http://www.enterpriseweb.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.enterpriseweb.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Duggal</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1324421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Duggal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1324421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good post, but this might be false binary - you can bake your cake and eat it two!

http:www.enterpriseweb.com - composable and contextual

Happy to discuss.
Dave]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, but this might be false binary &#8211; you can bake your cake and eat it two!</p>
<p>http:www.enterpriseweb.com &#8211; composable and contextual</p>
<p>Happy to discuss.<br />
Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Wood</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1314999</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Wood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1314999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I disagree with the main sentiment of the article. Mainly because the point is taken from such a limited point of view. Just because you can code more granular low level stuff using contextual approaches, doesn&#039;t mean the business gets 100% of what they want. Most of what the business wants is related to UI/UX and business process. Most of the reason they don&#039;t get it is because developers normally suck at that. Contextual tools focus much more on UI/UX and business process for precisely this reason.  Often, the business is happy with 80% as long as that 80% really does support their existing processes and help them automate difficult or manual processes. Often 100% is very elusive - using low level frameworks it simply gets to expensive and complex to give the full end-to-end solution and using contextual frameworks can make is too clunky to hit the edge use-cases - so those must remain manual or out of scope. In either scenario, there&#039;s no 100%. Equally, if you spend a lot of time working on business IT projects, things are never finished. Business projects are agile, iterative and never ending - because business is always evolving. IT projects are done with a build to last mentality - business projects should be embarked upon with a build for change approach.  Access does very well at that - with immediacy and iteration. So does Lotus Notes and most recently force.com from salesforce.

I&#039;m not sure I get this article. The listing of 4GL players is just odd - not sure how Heroku can be compared with MS Access. Sounds like an old C or binary programmer puffing their chest about these new fangled languages that don&#039;t require you to manage memory - so you can&#039;t possibly be a REAL developer! ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I disagree with the main sentiment of the article. Mainly because the point is taken from such a limited point of view. Just because you can code more granular low level stuff using contextual approaches, doesn&#8217;t mean the business gets 100% of what they want. Most of what the business wants is related to UI/UX and business process. Most of the reason they don&#8217;t get it is because developers normally suck at that. Contextual tools focus much more on UI/UX and business process for precisely this reason.  Often, the business is happy with 80% as long as that 80% really does support their existing processes and help them automate difficult or manual processes. Often 100% is very elusive &#8211; using low level frameworks it simply gets to expensive and complex to give the full end-to-end solution and using contextual frameworks can make is too clunky to hit the edge use-cases &#8211; so those must remain manual or out of scope. In either scenario, there&#8217;s no 100%. Equally, if you spend a lot of time working on business IT projects, things are never finished. Business projects are agile, iterative and never ending &#8211; because business is always evolving. IT projects are done with a build to last mentality &#8211; business projects should be embarked upon with a build for change approach.  Access does very well at that &#8211; with immediacy and iteration. So does Lotus Notes and most recently force.com from salesforce.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I get this article. The listing of 4GL players is just odd &#8211; not sure how Heroku can be compared with MS Access. Sounds like an old C or binary programmer puffing their chest about these new fangled languages that don&#8217;t require you to manage memory &#8211; so you can&#8217;t possibly be a REAL developer! ;)</p>
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		<title>By: tkunze</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1313557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tkunze]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1313557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And, coincidentally, Amazon just released OpsWorks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, coincidentally, Amazon just released OpsWorks.</p>
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		<title>By: tkunze</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1313246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tkunze]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1313246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article, James, and a thoughtful reminder that Amazon might just turn out to be &quot;The PaaS&quot; after all. While I agree with your and some of the commenters&#039; observation that one developer&#039;s composable Legoland might well be the next guy&#039;s contextual walled garden, I still believe the essence of composability at any level can be broken down into three characteristics:

  1. Components must be elementary enough to not matter to my application
  2. Components must be flexible enough so I don&#039;t have to modify them
  3. Connections must be trivially simple

Today&#039;s crop of PaaS has a number of challenges in that regard. First, they are in the business to provide other people&#039;s &quot;contexts&quot;, so to speak: JEE, PHP, MySQL, MongoDB, etc. But even beyond that, composability is limited by a number of factors, such as the specific versions of languages/frameworks/middleware/etc. on offer (&quot;sorry, we don&#039;t yet support PHP 5.4&quot;), architectural restrictions (&quot;must have at least one app container&quot;), development and operational processes supported, and, of course, by rather minimal support for business requirements.

Amazon, being off-premise, certainly has its own set of challenges and isn&#039;t quite as trivial to wire up as Unix pipes in a shell, but it dwarfs PaaS offerings  when it comes to being flexible and elementary. True, there is value in being contextual as there is in being composable. But the question is: can a composable system minimize the added value of a contextual system? And, if yes, how close is Amazon to getting there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, James, and a thoughtful reminder that Amazon might just turn out to be &#8220;The PaaS&#8221; after all. While I agree with your and some of the commenters&#8217; observation that one developer&#8217;s composable Legoland might well be the next guy&#8217;s contextual walled garden, I still believe the essence of composability at any level can be broken down into three characteristics:</p>
<p>  1. Components must be elementary enough to not matter to my application<br />
  2. Components must be flexible enough so I don&#8217;t have to modify them<br />
  3. Connections must be trivially simple</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s crop of PaaS has a number of challenges in that regard. First, they are in the business to provide other people&#8217;s &#8220;contexts&#8221;, so to speak: JEE, PHP, MySQL, MongoDB, etc. But even beyond that, composability is limited by a number of factors, such as the specific versions of languages/frameworks/middleware/etc. on offer (&#8220;sorry, we don&#8217;t yet support PHP 5.4&#8243;), architectural restrictions (&#8220;must have at least one app container&#8221;), development and operational processes supported, and, of course, by rather minimal support for business requirements.</p>
<p>Amazon, being off-premise, certainly has its own set of challenges and isn&#8217;t quite as trivial to wire up as Unix pipes in a shell, but it dwarfs PaaS offerings  when it comes to being flexible and elementary. True, there is value in being contextual as there is in being composable. But the question is: can a composable system minimize the added value of a contextual system? And, if yes, how close is Amazon to getting there?</p>
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		<title>By: Treff LaPlante</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1313239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Treff LaPlante]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1313239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As the product driver behind WorkXpress (www.workxpress.com) for over 10 years now, and as I&#039;ve watched the PaaS market from its beginning, Dietzler&#039;s Law is the sort of thing that I&#039;ve bumped up against many many times.

I believe the law as written has one fundamental flaw though that makes it fall apart; cost.  People don&#039;t &quot;want what they want&quot; as the law proscribes, but rather, they live with what they can afford.  Cost is the ultimate driver in determining the set of features that a business user will implement.

For most 4GL style PaaS, the actual numbers are closer to 60% visual tools, 39% coding required, and 1% simply can&#039;t do.

The art of a successful code-less PaaS is to get to closer 99% visual tools, 1% coding or can&#039;t do. 

The key thing here is that the visual tools cut deployment times and cost so much (let&#039;s say 90%), that the business user will always want to forego the small percentage of things they can&#039;t have for whatever reason.

And this is then is the fundamental misnomer of Dietzler&#039;s Law: Do you want 95% at a 90% time and cost reduction, or 100% for 100% of the price?  Are you willing to forego 5% of your wish list for a 90% reduction in cost? 

PaaS customers are emphatically saying &quot;yes&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the product driver behind WorkXpress (www.workxpress.com) for over 10 years now, and as I&#8217;ve watched the PaaS market from its beginning, Dietzler&#8217;s Law is the sort of thing that I&#8217;ve bumped up against many many times.</p>
<p>I believe the law as written has one fundamental flaw though that makes it fall apart; cost.  People don&#8217;t &#8220;want what they want&#8221; as the law proscribes, but rather, they live with what they can afford.  Cost is the ultimate driver in determining the set of features that a business user will implement.</p>
<p>For most 4GL style PaaS, the actual numbers are closer to 60% visual tools, 39% coding required, and 1% simply can&#8217;t do.</p>
<p>The art of a successful code-less PaaS is to get to closer 99% visual tools, 1% coding or can&#8217;t do. </p>
<p>The key thing here is that the visual tools cut deployment times and cost so much (let&#8217;s say 90%), that the business user will always want to forego the small percentage of things they can&#8217;t have for whatever reason.</p>
<p>And this is then is the fundamental misnomer of Dietzler&#8217;s Law: Do you want 95% at a 90% time and cost reduction, or 100% for 100% of the price?  Are you willing to forego 5% of your wish list for a 90% reduction in cost? </p>
<p>PaaS customers are emphatically saying &#8220;yes&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Raj</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1313084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1313084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for bringing up this topic and well written post. We do believe that composable platforms provide the flexibility that many applications require, especially in the enterprises. Amazon web services is way well adopted than any other PaaS and exactly for the reasons that services can be orchestrated for designing complex architectures which is a major limitation on many PaaS offerings today. Cumulogic platform provides the ease of use of contextual PaaS as well as cloud services that can ve orchestrated to build a robust backend-as-a-service.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for bringing up this topic and well written post. We do believe that composable platforms provide the flexibility that many applications require, especially in the enterprises. Amazon web services is way well adopted than any other PaaS and exactly for the reasons that services can be orchestrated for designing complex architectures which is a major limitation on many PaaS offerings today. Cumulogic platform provides the ease of use of contextual PaaS as well as cloud services that can ve orchestrated to build a robust backend-as-a-service.</p>
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		<title>By: natishalom</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1312937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natishalom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1312937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James great writeup as usual - thanks!
In the context of compassable PaaS i think that it is important to have a measure of how compassable your PaaS is really is as i see many names that provides some degree of flexibility jumping into that category.

The ultimate measure IMO is 1)How fast can you deploy a given or desired application blue-print, the second measure is to measure the degree of diversity i.e. how many kind of application blue-prints can you support into your platform.

You&#039;ll find that CloudFoundry and other opensource platform comes pretty high on that list but would still require changes to the core codebase to introduce new stacks.

This is where it would makes most sense to marry the concepts from DevOps into the PaaS world. By that i mean that the ability to compose the application stack and define new blue-print would be a first class citizen feature in the platform and not a hack.

A DSL that would enable to define and extend the application stack leads to a higher degree of composability by the measures that i outlined above.

As Krishnan pointed out new generation PaaS framework such as Cloudify and Brooklyn fits into that second category. For more details on this approach see one of my recent posts: Putting DevOps and PaaS together: http://natishalom.typepad.com/nati_shaloms_blog/2012/08/putting-devops-and-paas-together-with-cloudify.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James great writeup as usual &#8211; thanks!<br />
In the context of compassable PaaS i think that it is important to have a measure of how compassable your PaaS is really is as i see many names that provides some degree of flexibility jumping into that category.</p>
<p>The ultimate measure IMO is 1)How fast can you deploy a given or desired application blue-print, the second measure is to measure the degree of diversity i.e. how many kind of application blue-prints can you support into your platform.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll find that CloudFoundry and other opensource platform comes pretty high on that list but would still require changes to the core codebase to introduce new stacks.</p>
<p>This is where it would makes most sense to marry the concepts from DevOps into the PaaS world. By that i mean that the ability to compose the application stack and define new blue-print would be a first class citizen feature in the platform and not a hack.</p>
<p>A DSL that would enable to define and extend the application stack leads to a higher degree of composability by the measures that i outlined above.</p>
<p>As Krishnan pointed out new generation PaaS framework such as Cloudify and Brooklyn fits into that second category. For more details on this approach see one of my recent posts: Putting DevOps and PaaS together: <a href="http://natishalom.typepad.com/nati_shaloms_blog/2012/08/putting-devops-and-paas-together-with-cloudify.html" rel="nofollow">http://natishalom.typepad.com/nati_shaloms_blog/2012/08/putting-devops-and-paas-together-with-cloudify.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Adrius42</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/02/16/devops-complexity-and-anti-fragility-in-it-context-and-composition/#comment-1312841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrius42]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=609236#comment-1312841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read, and read this post, and finally I think I got it.... it was all about making the developers life easier.

My desire is a world not of developer centric architectures but a join of data and user centric architectures, where usability, usefulness, trust and collaboration are the watch words.

Simply put; I want my Apps to use my data, not their data.

The current world of Apps does some clever things but I find my self having to mold / recreate / copy / re-enter my data to meet the various Apps needs.

On the surface it looks like a composable approach will make the delivery of my user/data centric world easier to deliver. (I suspect as in all life a hybrid approach will be the most effective) The problem is that making the world I want will be harder for the developer than  maintaining their Developer Centric view. It will take thinking architecture from the data and users perspective, rather than an architecture perspective. Architects in the real world get that subtle point, the relatively immature world of Systems Architecture has yet to grok the point. 

My desire is that Apple gets it&#039;s mojo back and takes us to the next level of Useability and Usefullness. Frankly I don&#039;t mind if a new start up called Pear makes the shift. I will very quickly become a Pear bigot! Because at the end of the day I want Systems and Systems Architectures to make MY WORLD easier, I don&#039;t mind if that is going to mean some hard work for the developers.

I believe the developers will get more reward and wealth from doing some hard work, if a 3 year old can develop &quot;Compostable&quot; programs they will be just that : Throw Away!

(Methinks that Will Shuman appears to have grok&#039;d it!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read, and read this post, and finally I think I got it&#8230;. it was all about making the developers life easier.</p>
<p>My desire is a world not of developer centric architectures but a join of data and user centric architectures, where usability, usefulness, trust and collaboration are the watch words.</p>
<p>Simply put; I want my Apps to use my data, not their data.</p>
<p>The current world of Apps does some clever things but I find my self having to mold / recreate / copy / re-enter my data to meet the various Apps needs.</p>
<p>On the surface it looks like a composable approach will make the delivery of my user/data centric world easier to deliver. (I suspect as in all life a hybrid approach will be the most effective) The problem is that making the world I want will be harder for the developer than  maintaining their Developer Centric view. It will take thinking architecture from the data and users perspective, rather than an architecture perspective. Architects in the real world get that subtle point, the relatively immature world of Systems Architecture has yet to grok the point. </p>
<p>My desire is that Apple gets it&#8217;s mojo back and takes us to the next level of Useability and Usefullness. Frankly I don&#8217;t mind if a new start up called Pear makes the shift. I will very quickly become a Pear bigot! Because at the end of the day I want Systems and Systems Architectures to make MY WORLD easier, I don&#8217;t mind if that is going to mean some hard work for the developers.</p>
<p>I believe the developers will get more reward and wealth from doing some hard work, if a 3 year old can develop &#8220;Compostable&#8221; programs they will be just that : Throw Away!</p>
<p>(Methinks that Will Shuman appears to have grok&#8217;d it!)</p>
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