Comments on: The most important chart in energy

By: clement-gauthier-142

clement-gauthier-142 — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 23:48:38 +0000

> Pour Vincent Bolloré,
>
> ,UNE ÉNERGIE PROPRE ET RENOUVELABLE VOIR LES REPORTAGES
>
>
> Quand vont’ils se réveiller: Créons des emplois: les voitures de 5 ans
> et plus transformons-les en voitures électriques. Pour l’autonomie
> développons une nouvelle technologie qui va rendre les voitures autonomes
> de même que les maisons autonomes voir reportage:
>
> BONJOUR a toutes et tous dans ( NEXUS) DU MOIS DE SEPTEMBRE voir le
> reportage d’un chargeur autonome qui puise l’énergie du vide pour charger
> les batteries voir aussi un autre reportage
> BONJOUR A TOUS NOUS POUVONS ÊTRE AUTONOME EN ÉNERGIE VOIR REPORTAGE SUR LE
> CHARGEUR AUTONOME DECEMBRE 2010
> http://www.hebdosregionaux.ca/abitibi-temiscamingue/2012/04/20/sa-machine-fabrique-de-lelectricite-avec-lair-ambiant
>
> AU PLAISIR DE VOUS LIRE
> Clément Gauthier Abitibi Canada
> 819-735-4331
>

By: dustinmuscato

dustinmuscato — Sat, 09 Feb 2013 18:27:13 +0000

I think we should all first thank the author for writing this article and bringing the subject up, as stated by Mr. Gupta, outside of PUC/PSC hearing rooms. The article paints an interesting, and yet as stated by Mr. Hails, incomplete picture. However, let’s not get t0o critical too fast. The LDC presented is VERY generic and honestly, if you don’t know how that curve is created and what those horizontal lines mean (some are left off too) then the graph is essentially meaningless to you. But, the point he is making is not incorrect – that the establishment of “micro-grid” style DG is going to be a major answer to the future energy needs of the US and many other countries. When the grid was being developed here in the US, circumstances were very different than they are now, and today there are different concerns, different resource shortages, newer technologies, etc. I agree with Mr. Hails that the traditional baseload generation units cannot just be ignored while we “look” for other solutions. That problem needs to be confronted now – both the construction of new units, training of qualified personnel, etc. However, the argument that DG, storage, renewables, smart grid, etc…is not going to be the answer as stated by many very learned power engineers (my hand just went up too) is simply incorrect. Mr. Hails, the existing and antiquated paradigm that defines the US electrical power infrastructure is in desperate need of change. Let’s discuss the host of problems from enormous cost of emissions control that is now required on traditional fossil facilities, the unnaturally low cost of natural gas (highly unlikely this is sustainable far into the future), the utter disaster that is waiting to happen in the US transmission system and the old distribution networks across the entire US. There is no national HVDC transmission in place yet, mostly due to a complete lack of national policy/regulation to make it possible. To talk about blackouts, I believe that new modern devices, namely synchrophasors, (coupled with some other pieces of technology and newer software) are going to be the key to eliminating that problem – but only if we solve the generation-load problem. Management of the grid is crucial, but that’s like making sure you change the oil every 3000 miles in an old beat up Buick – it’s only going to do so much before you need a new engine. I’m bringing up a myriad of different issues basically to point out this major fact: there isn’t now, never was and will never be one single silver bullet answer. I think the closest thing we have to an all-encompassing answer is the CONCEPT embodied by micro-grids and DG with storage. This concept itself is seeking to drive a whole new way to approach the grid, electric power generation and storage in the US. This is what is needed. Yes, we need to solve the immediate problem with the aging plants and workforce, but only as a stop gap. We need to examine and commercialize the new concepts as presented in this article. The traditional LDC exists around the traditional electric power industry as we know it today. Why can it not change?
10 years ago never in a million years would we have thought our phones could do what they are doing today. I think this is the attitude we should be taking towards this problem.

By: D Christian

D Christian — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 17:26:25 +0000

Here’s the chart that is truly most important to US residents:

The chart cited in this article is only a generic example, and is not itself important.
A similar specific chart of your use in your area of what’s important to you right now.

By: Pradeep Gupta

Pradeep Gupta — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 21:42:25 +0000

Mr. Hails very lucidly explained the rationale behind investments and operations of energy resources which are dictated by the necessity that electricity supply should match the consumers’ demand at each instant. But the story goes a bit further.
The “load duration curve”(LDC) is treated as a given fact generally as in this article, and the resource portfolio, is treated as the only correct solution. However, in fact, LDC is just the sum of individual patterns of electricity use by all of us; residences using electricity mostly in the evenings, offices during the day, no one using much during the wee hours of night etc. But if you look at the situation little differently, where the “load” side could also be modified, perhaps even at a cost lower than the cost of corresponding supply resource, we could end up with a lower costs overall.
This approach is called “Integrated Resource Planning”. The “load” side can be modified by using storage batteries, pre-heating or -cooling commercial buildings, all of us using more efficient appliances or the industries rescheduling their manufacturing shifts or utilizing local energy resources such as solar. But note that each of these measures come at a cost, which could be more or less than the matching “supply” side options.
I am delighted that these issues are being discussed here at the Patch, beyond the hearing rooms of Public Utilities Commission in San Francisco by only engineers and lawyers.
Pradeep Gupta
Council Member- South san Francisco

By: Jiminy StAck

Jiminy StAck — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:13:22 +0000

V2G Vehicle To GRID can provide Distributed store at low cost and pays off for the owners of the Vehicles. Most vehicles site 20+ hours a day doing nothing.
Read V2G-101.com to see how this is growing and in use today.

By: R. L. Hails Sr. P. E.

R. L. Hails Sr. P. E. — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 03:01:39 +0000

This is not the whole story. On the grid, the base loaded units generate juice at the cheapest cost. Then as the load increases, less efficient units, and units at a distance are called on to produce. As the load peaks at maximum load, everything is utilized with a thin margin of excess capacity. If the load gets too big, the system will tear itself apart if load shedding, black outs, are not used.

Loads which can tolerate interruption of service pay less, for less reliable juice. It is basic electrical engineering, and utility policy, that the grid is designed to provide ubiquitous, cheap, continuous, safe juice. If everyone has their whole distributed (independent) generator, or storage scheme, these can compete with the expensive last stage generators. But not the base loaded units. America has allowed the base loaded units to decay, most are far beyond retirement age. The men who know their ancient machines are dying out.

Conservation, and new base loaded units are desperately needed, now.

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 23:33:20 +0000

A lot of misleading stuff here. Do you think utilities and their regulators are trying to build the most inefficient system they can? (California excepted). This ill-defined storage is the only thing more expensive than solar cells. you have lots of stuff that only gets used a few hours a year. Is that a problem in and of itself?

By: jj

jj — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 19:19:11 +0000

Just kind of humorous.. India’s electric generation and distribution system might be the worst in the world.

By: paul martin

paul martin — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 11:11:18 +0000

Still staring at this chart and am not convinced that it is that crucial to me personally .. I want to see the one that relates to all the battery problems that seem to be occurring. Boeing might win a few friends if it updated Peukert’s Law …. maybe they did already

By: Rajesh

Rajesh — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 10:44:33 +0000

Distributed energy storage is only the first step towards better energy management. Without distributed energy generation and optimal utilization of energy, the former creates a very small difference. Creating cost-effective distributed energy storage is one of the biggest problems facing our society today, along with reckless consumption of energy.