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	<title>Comments on: Beyond the hype: 5 ways that big companies are using gamification</title>
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	<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/</link>
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		<title>By: adsffdsa</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1324787</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[adsffdsa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1324787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gamification... I contest the whole premise... it&#039;s like we&#039;re supposed to treat employees like children? That&#039;s what I really take away from this.

You can take your Amazon gift card and stick it. I think mature people just have a passion for something and they need to do something they love. You don&#039;t need nerdy incentives, especially automated platforms. You need smart people who love what they&#039;re doing.

Love what you do and you&#039;ll never work another day in your life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gamification&#8230; I contest the whole premise&#8230; it&#8217;s like we&#8217;re supposed to treat employees like children? That&#8217;s what I really take away from this.</p>
<p>You can take your Amazon gift card and stick it. I think mature people just have a passion for something and they need to do something they love. You don&#8217;t need nerdy incentives, especially automated platforms. You need smart people who love what they&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>Love what you do and you&#8217;ll never work another day in your life.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Slavin</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1315453</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Slavin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1315453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Greg, then you obviously don&#039;t take into account the great success of these historic trends:

-- cinemafication. 10 easy steps have allowed every major company to draw from the success that every movie enjoys, and make themselves more efficient and productive.

-- literaturification. More ambitious at 15 steps, this takes the strict design principles that every best-selling novel adheres to, and applies them to brands, helping them sell more things to more people.

-- comicification. Amateur designers who were certified by Scott McCloud were able to increase profits between 20 and 60% by using the same proven principles that drive so many people to read so many comics. The War of Drugs was considered to have been won with the distribution of anti-drug comics in the 80s.
 
Like these great schemes that preceded it, Gamification is only the latest arrival in a long history of reducing creative and complex work into a facile set of rules that can be sold through &quot;guest posts&quot; linking to marketing schemes. It&#039;s a proud history.

If you don&#039;t see the value of it, you&#039;re a reactionary who probably still thinks the pleasure produced by games is complex and nuanced. But I ask you, if games couldn&#039;t be reduced to simple -- certifiable! -- principles of engagement, how would game industry giants like Sony or Zynga be able to just keep growing, month after month and year after year?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, then you obviously don&#8217;t take into account the great success of these historic trends:</p>
<p>&#8211; cinemafication. 10 easy steps have allowed every major company to draw from the success that every movie enjoys, and make themselves more efficient and productive.</p>
<p>&#8211; literaturification. More ambitious at 15 steps, this takes the strict design principles that every best-selling novel adheres to, and applies them to brands, helping them sell more things to more people.</p>
<p>&#8211; comicification. Amateur designers who were certified by Scott McCloud were able to increase profits between 20 and 60% by using the same proven principles that drive so many people to read so many comics. The War of Drugs was considered to have been won with the distribution of anti-drug comics in the 80s.</p>
<p>Like these great schemes that preceded it, Gamification is only the latest arrival in a long history of reducing creative and complex work into a facile set of rules that can be sold through &#8220;guest posts&#8221; linking to marketing schemes. It&#8217;s a proud history.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t see the value of it, you&#8217;re a reactionary who probably still thinks the pleasure produced by games is complex and nuanced. But I ask you, if games couldn&#8217;t be reduced to simple &#8212; certifiable! &#8212; principles of engagement, how would game industry giants like Sony or Zynga be able to just keep growing, month after month and year after year?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Sheldon</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1310161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Sheldon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1310161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems there is way too much focus on the process of game mechanics/dynamics and not enough consideration for the creative talent behind successful &quot;gamified&quot; business solutions.  I doubt anyone would buy in to the notion that you could read a book on comedy and go to a one-day &quot;humorfication&quot; course to be a great comedian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems there is way too much focus on the process of game mechanics/dynamics and not enough consideration for the creative talent behind successful &#8220;gamified&#8221; business solutions.  I doubt anyone would buy in to the notion that you could read a book on comedy and go to a one-day &#8220;humorfication&#8221; course to be a great comedian.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobkatter</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1306409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bobkatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 07:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1306409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I feel gameophobes are tapping into their darkside; it may seem a bit out of the ordinary-- but it seems to me these gameophobes are learning how to reduce stress or build stress?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel gameophobes are tapping into their darkside; it may seem a bit out of the ordinary&#8211; but it seems to me these gameophobes are learning how to reduce stress or build stress?</p>
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		<title>By: Baka Tono</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1305716</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baka Tono]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1305716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agree,  Every example of &quot;gamification&quot; I have participated in or reviewed has failed.  We attempted virtual worlds for meetings for a while and while it was funny to make Palm Trees grow in the middle of the conference room or throw a &quot;virtual&quot; grenade on the table (vs. the figurative one), the novelty died very quickly and we just eventually shut the servers down.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree,  Every example of &#8220;gamification&#8221; I have participated in or reviewed has failed.  We attempted virtual worlds for meetings for a while and while it was funny to make Palm Trees grow in the middle of the conference room or throw a &#8220;virtual&#8221; grenade on the table (vs. the figurative one), the novelty died very quickly and we just eventually shut the servers down.</p>
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		<title>By: Baka Tono</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1305713</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baka Tono]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1305713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I looked at the examples of gamification and I have been the (un)fortunate recipient of current iterations of &quot;virtual&quot; meeting spaces and everything you reference or I have seen is, well, not that great.  It is neither game-like nor work-like.

For example, the *props stuff above and work.com are not, in my opinion, gamifying work tools.  They are really just kind of gaudy attempts at finding ways to &quot;reward&quot; employees with emoticons.  One of them actually allows you to automatically reward employees.  Lolz.  How unrewarding would it be to be rewarded to goofy graphics and emoticons by the server on a scheduled basis?  

Games work for two reasons mainly:
1) anonymity - you can be anyone you want to be and no one is the wiser
2) actual reward - you get something that furthers your goals within the game or which can actually be used

These gimmicky things have neither of those to items mentioned above.  Corporations and businesses want all the cool stuff that happens in games and so forth but they then require everyone to register with their real names and titles.  Fail.  Corp bosses are either hypocritical or lying to themselves with regards to their desire for collaborative tools.  No tool will ever really work if you have to plaster your real name an face all over it.  No one will every really tell the rest of the group/network what they really think if they know that the boss may just fire them over it.  So, until corps and businesses let go of that, none of these initiatives will ever go anywhere.

The other thing is the rewards.  They are useless.  Can they be sold to get something cooler?  Can you slay a dragon or blow up a star-ship with it?  See, the gamers don&#039;t like games because of the awards they receive; they like games because of the dope-amine rush they get when they use those awards to do something cool.  The awards are a means to an end.  Giving the gimmicky awards will do nothing unless they are a means to an end which gives that rush.  Come up with a way to have a quest at work which lets you play against the &quot;boss&quot; (in this case the real boss) and you may be getting somewhere.

Otherwise, this is just not going anywhere.  Just another example of companies attempting to copy something successful and incorporate a junky corporate framework which ultimately makes the &quot;game&quot; unappealing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked at the examples of gamification and I have been the (un)fortunate recipient of current iterations of &#8220;virtual&#8221; meeting spaces and everything you reference or I have seen is, well, not that great.  It is neither game-like nor work-like.</p>
<p>For example, the *props stuff above and work.com are not, in my opinion, gamifying work tools.  They are really just kind of gaudy attempts at finding ways to &#8220;reward&#8221; employees with emoticons.  One of them actually allows you to automatically reward employees.  Lolz.  How unrewarding would it be to be rewarded to goofy graphics and emoticons by the server on a scheduled basis?  </p>
<p>Games work for two reasons mainly:<br />
1) anonymity &#8211; you can be anyone you want to be and no one is the wiser<br />
2) actual reward &#8211; you get something that furthers your goals within the game or which can actually be used</p>
<p>These gimmicky things have neither of those to items mentioned above.  Corporations and businesses want all the cool stuff that happens in games and so forth but they then require everyone to register with their real names and titles.  Fail.  Corp bosses are either hypocritical or lying to themselves with regards to their desire for collaborative tools.  No tool will ever really work if you have to plaster your real name an face all over it.  No one will every really tell the rest of the group/network what they really think if they know that the boss may just fire them over it.  So, until corps and businesses let go of that, none of these initiatives will ever go anywhere.</p>
<p>The other thing is the rewards.  They are useless.  Can they be sold to get something cooler?  Can you slay a dragon or blow up a star-ship with it?  See, the gamers don&#8217;t like games because of the awards they receive; they like games because of the dope-amine rush they get when they use those awards to do something cool.  The awards are a means to an end.  Giving the gimmicky awards will do nothing unless they are a means to an end which gives that rush.  Come up with a way to have a quest at work which lets you play against the &#8220;boss&#8221; (in this case the real boss) and you may be getting somewhere.</p>
<p>Otherwise, this is just not going anywhere.  Just another example of companies attempting to copy something successful and incorporate a junky corporate framework which ultimately makes the &#8220;game&#8221; unappealing.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabe Zichermann</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1304818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gabe Zichermann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1304818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kathy (aka Sierra Tolter) - you can use your real name with confidence here I&#039;m sure:

The pointlessness of arguing against the efficacy of gamification without facts was precisely the impetus behind my Huffington Post piece (and by extension, this article). Engaging in a fact vs conjecture argument is a waste of everyone&#039;s time -- just as it is in politics, art or any other domain. 

Make no mistake, there are plenty of problems in gamification, but every design discipline has its failures. The key is to learn from those errors, understand how they worked and how they didn&#039;t, and incorporate that understanding into the next iteration. This is as true today as it was when the Wright Brothers finally figured out the shape of an airfoil, and it will continue to be the model for gamification as long as I&#039;m involved. We&#039;ve substantially added to, evolved and matured in our thinking even in the 3 short years since the movement started -- and I have no doubt this will continue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathy (aka Sierra Tolter) &#8211; you can use your real name with confidence here I&#8217;m sure:</p>
<p>The pointlessness of arguing against the efficacy of gamification without facts was precisely the impetus behind my Huffington Post piece (and by extension, this article). Engaging in a fact vs conjecture argument is a waste of everyone&#8217;s time &#8212; just as it is in politics, art or any other domain. </p>
<p>Make no mistake, there are plenty of problems in gamification, but every design discipline has its failures. The key is to learn from those errors, understand how they worked and how they didn&#8217;t, and incorporate that understanding into the next iteration. This is as true today as it was when the Wright Brothers finally figured out the shape of an airfoil, and it will continue to be the model for gamification as long as I&#8217;m involved. We&#8217;ve substantially added to, evolved and matured in our thinking even in the 3 short years since the movement started &#8212; and I have no doubt this will continue.</p>
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		<title>By: Theo Priestley</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1304778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Theo Priestley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1304778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely interested Gabe :)

http://successfulworkplace.com/2013/01/28/gamification-of-feedback-makes-your-team-go-faster/

We covered gamification of leaderboards in the enterprise today actually through Leaderboarded and Toby Beresford in a guest post. I play devil&#039;s advocate a lot but I do believe we need to share info and make sure the value is driven back into productivity and that the momentum in employee engagement isn&#039;t lost.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely interested Gabe :)</p>
<p><a href="http://successfulworkplace.com/2013/01/28/gamification-of-feedback-makes-your-team-go-faster/" rel="nofollow">http://successfulworkplace.com/2013/01/28/gamification-of-feedback-makes-your-team-go-faster/</a></p>
<p>We covered gamification of leaderboards in the enterprise today actually through Leaderboarded and Toby Beresford in a guest post. I play devil&#8217;s advocate a lot but I do believe we need to share info and make sure the value is driven back into productivity and that the momentum in employee engagement isn&#8217;t lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Sierra Tolter</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1304767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sierra Tolter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1304767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One other point on the fallacy of small sample size and selection bias with respect to gamification &quot;evidence&quot;: I continue to find it astonishing that the leaders in the gamification space -- the platform vendors and consultants (including graduates of Gabe&#039;s certification program) -- have themselves shown a frighteningly low level of success gamifying *their own work*. Considering that they are marketed as &quot;engagement specialists&quot;, their own websites have little to no engagement, and those brave enough to attempt gamification on their own sites have appear to have almost universally failed, with either zero comments or the kinds of incentivized one-word comments common sense predicts: &quot;awesome!&quot;, worth 10 points toward your next badge...
If there is to be science and evidence to back up the claims of gamification, I would expect that those who are the best in the world at doing it would be able to... Actually do it. Instead, they point to areas where it appears to have worked (sometimes clearly, sometimes more likely a correlation not causation) for someone else. And these examples are often too diverse to make useful, reproducible generalizations. There is one area that does seem both clear and potentially reproducible, and that&#039;s quantified-self feedback (now co-opted by gamification). But even there, where we know both THAT it works and to a certain degree WHY, what about all the companies, apps, programs where it was tried and still *failed*?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other point on the fallacy of small sample size and selection bias with respect to gamification &#8220;evidence&#8221;: I continue to find it astonishing that the leaders in the gamification space &#8212; the platform vendors and consultants (including graduates of Gabe&#8217;s certification program) &#8212; have themselves shown a frighteningly low level of success gamifying *their own work*. Considering that they are marketed as &#8220;engagement specialists&#8221;, their own websites have little to no engagement, and those brave enough to attempt gamification on their own sites have appear to have almost universally failed, with either zero comments or the kinds of incentivized one-word comments common sense predicts: &#8220;awesome!&#8221;, worth 10 points toward your next badge&#8230;<br />
If there is to be science and evidence to back up the claims of gamification, I would expect that those who are the best in the world at doing it would be able to&#8230; Actually do it. Instead, they point to areas where it appears to have worked (sometimes clearly, sometimes more likely a correlation not causation) for someone else. And these examples are often too diverse to make useful, reproducible generalizations. There is one area that does seem both clear and potentially reproducible, and that&#8217;s quantified-self feedback (now co-opted by gamification). But even there, where we know both THAT it works and to a certain degree WHY, what about all the companies, apps, programs where it was tried and still *failed*?</p>
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		<title>By: Sierra Tolter</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/27/beyond-the-hype-5-ways-that-big-companies-are-using-gamification/#comment-1304748</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sierra Tolter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=604487#comment-1304748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not a stats expert, but it seems that the gamification &quot;success stories&quot; are not, despite Gabe&#039;s contention, based in &quot;science.&quot; They are, however, a good example of the fallacy of small sample size and the fallacy of selection bias. The fallacy of small sample size says:

X is true for A
X is true for B
X is true for C
X is true for D
Therefore, X is true for D, E, F, G, and so on.

When you show only the success stories, they are examples of something that worked in a specific context, and by no means evidence that &quot;gamification works.&quot; For we do not have a sample that includes the ones that did NOT. Well, except when gamification thought leaders need to explain the high-profile failure they had previously held up as success examples / proof. 

So it may be that while X worked for A, B, C, and D, it was tried and failed for... The rest of 
the alphabet. The burden of proof is on those who are proposing and especially selling these solutions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a stats expert, but it seems that the gamification &#8220;success stories&#8221; are not, despite Gabe&#8217;s contention, based in &#8220;science.&#8221; They are, however, a good example of the fallacy of small sample size and the fallacy of selection bias. The fallacy of small sample size says:</p>
<p>X is true for A<br />
X is true for B<br />
X is true for C<br />
X is true for D<br />
Therefore, X is true for D, E, F, G, and so on.</p>
<p>When you show only the success stories, they are examples of something that worked in a specific context, and by no means evidence that &#8220;gamification works.&#8221; For we do not have a sample that includes the ones that did NOT. Well, except when gamification thought leaders need to explain the high-profile failure they had previously held up as success examples / proof. </p>
<p>So it may be that while X worked for A, B, C, and D, it was tried and failed for&#8230; The rest of<br />
the alphabet. The burden of proof is on those who are proposing and especially selling these solutions.</p>
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