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	<title>Comments on: Google should be ashamed for paying carriers to handle its traffic</title>
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	<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/</link>
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		<title>By: Srinivas</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1320015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Srinivas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1320015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think its fair Google pays the Telecom operators. Telecom operators pay a huge licensing fee and most of the reveunue from M-Commerce is going to Google and the E-commerce merchants. Operators in Europe have to comepete on price and cannot get a share of the pie even after providing the infrastructure than enables fast internet. When the government is charging License fee apart from collecting Service Tax from Customers and Corporate tax from Operators, why can&#039;t Operators charge Google for providing the bandwidth in their infrastructure ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its fair Google pays the Telecom operators. Telecom operators pay a huge licensing fee and most of the reveunue from M-Commerce is going to Google and the E-commerce merchants. Operators in Europe have to comepete on price and cannot get a share of the pie even after providing the infrastructure than enables fast internet. When the government is charging License fee apart from collecting Service Tax from Customers and Corporate tax from Operators, why can&#8217;t Operators charge Google for providing the bandwidth in their infrastructure ?</p>
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		<title>By: Burrito</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1304372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Burrito]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 01:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1304372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is this really new? Telcos being greedy? Shouldn&#039;t it be noted that telcos already overcharged before mobile broadband got to be such a big thing? 12 pennies (GBP) for 160 characters (1.28 kilobits) of text message is outrageous. To transfer that much data over the Internet costs a fraction of that. And don&#039;t get me started on the roaming charges.

To transfer 1.28 kilobits over a T-Mobile mobile broadband connection would cost 0.0000005 GBP, at the rate of 15 GBP for 5GB per month (their plan of cheapest value), which works out at 0.0000004 GBP per kilobit.

(1 byte = 8 bits)

Telcos being greedy in the face of new technology is nothing new.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this really new? Telcos being greedy? Shouldn&#8217;t it be noted that telcos already overcharged before mobile broadband got to be such a big thing? 12 pennies (GBP) for 160 characters (1.28 kilobits) of text message is outrageous. To transfer that much data over the Internet costs a fraction of that. And don&#8217;t get me started on the roaming charges.</p>
<p>To transfer 1.28 kilobits over a T-Mobile mobile broadband connection would cost 0.0000005 GBP, at the rate of 15 GBP for 5GB per month (their plan of cheapest value), which works out at 0.0000004 GBP per kilobit.</p>
<p>(1 byte = 8 bits)</p>
<p>Telcos being greedy in the face of new technology is nothing new.</p>
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		<title>By: David Parsons</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1303875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Parsons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1303875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ISPs like Orange are companies who buid their own infrastructure to make money from it. Google also wants to make money from Orange&#039;s infrastructure, and that&#039;s OK with the &quot;net neutraltiy&quot; people. But it&#039;s not OK for Orange to take some of that money back from Google? Huh? Are all &quot;net neutrality&quot; people just Google shills?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ISPs like Orange are companies who buid their own infrastructure to make money from it. Google also wants to make money from Orange&#8217;s infrastructure, and that&#8217;s OK with the &#8220;net neutraltiy&#8221; people. But it&#8217;s not OK for Orange to take some of that money back from Google? Huh? Are all &#8220;net neutrality&#8221; people just Google shills?</p>
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		<title>By: Djous</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1302653</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Djous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1302653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is Google Net Research ? Not really sure ! There&#039;s no equal treatment provided by Google...more you pay and better will be your position.
Finally, if you&#039;re asking for QoS you&#039;ll have to pay: network and research engine.
Orange and Google are asking the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Google Net Research ? Not really sure ! There&#8217;s no equal treatment provided by Google&#8230;more you pay and better will be your position.<br />
Finally, if you&#8217;re asking for QoS you&#8217;ll have to pay: network and research engine.<br />
Orange and Google are asking the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Infostack</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1302373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Infostack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1302373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you ever considered that bill and keep fosters monopoly?  Google is now a monopoly internet company in terms of scale on par with the incumbent carriers.  The key difference is that it got their via true and open competition and a lot of what Google is doing still supports and represents, IMO, openness.

Vertically integrated carriers are information age dinosaurs.  They don&#039;t scale or price particularly well.  Everything is averages with them; no marginal cost or consumption.  You are commenting on the final stage of a struggle that began in the early 1980s and got way-laid by failed US regulatory policy beginning in 1996 and culminating with the death of equal access in 2004.

Instead of vilifying Google, you should equate net neutrality with equal access.  You should also look at the carrier and  internet models and argue for scaled horizontal exchanges in the lower (access and transport), middle (addressing, network management, security and settlements) and upper (application and marketing) layers.

You should also decry the notion of bill and keep and support balanced settlements.  Albeit competitively costed and priced.  Balanced settlements effectively &quot;clear&quot; supply and demand from the top to the bottom layers and vice versa, as well as unilaterally across different providers.  That&#039;s how new services and technology are rapidly introduced and amortized.  Just look at how slowly things have evolved in the &quot;internet&quot; world with a bill and keep model.  IPv6 is but one example.  Furthermore, a lot of negatives (spam, phishing, security issues) are dramatically reduced with balanced settlements.

(As an aside, have you ever considered that the combination of all you can eat unlimited consumption and bill and keep killed the rural wireless broadband market in the US in the 2000s?  And that metered pricing and bilateral settlements are the only way to ensure rural broadband?)

This open, horizontal model with balanced settlements will actually support universal and free access, as centralized procurement will be the key driver to infrastructure investment; not edge subscription.  The foundations for balanced settlements are already developing organically with Big data and online advertising platforms whereby the central procurer can see the return on the &quot;free&quot; or subsidized communications session married to some commercially supported transaction.  

You wouldn&#039;t have believed me in 1984 if I told you that 90% of all long-distance communications would be free or perceived as free/unlimited by 2000; and yet it was.  That&#039;s the future we need and the sooner people see what Google is doing to take on the vertically integrated carriers, and not criticize them, the sooner we&#039;ll get there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever considered that bill and keep fosters monopoly?  Google is now a monopoly internet company in terms of scale on par with the incumbent carriers.  The key difference is that it got their via true and open competition and a lot of what Google is doing still supports and represents, IMO, openness.</p>
<p>Vertically integrated carriers are information age dinosaurs.  They don&#8217;t scale or price particularly well.  Everything is averages with them; no marginal cost or consumption.  You are commenting on the final stage of a struggle that began in the early 1980s and got way-laid by failed US regulatory policy beginning in 1996 and culminating with the death of equal access in 2004.</p>
<p>Instead of vilifying Google, you should equate net neutrality with equal access.  You should also look at the carrier and  internet models and argue for scaled horizontal exchanges in the lower (access and transport), middle (addressing, network management, security and settlements) and upper (application and marketing) layers.</p>
<p>You should also decry the notion of bill and keep and support balanced settlements.  Albeit competitively costed and priced.  Balanced settlements effectively &#8220;clear&#8221; supply and demand from the top to the bottom layers and vice versa, as well as unilaterally across different providers.  That&#8217;s how new services and technology are rapidly introduced and amortized.  Just look at how slowly things have evolved in the &#8220;internet&#8221; world with a bill and keep model.  IPv6 is but one example.  Furthermore, a lot of negatives (spam, phishing, security issues) are dramatically reduced with balanced settlements.</p>
<p>(As an aside, have you ever considered that the combination of all you can eat unlimited consumption and bill and keep killed the rural wireless broadband market in the US in the 2000s?  And that metered pricing and bilateral settlements are the only way to ensure rural broadband?)</p>
<p>This open, horizontal model with balanced settlements will actually support universal and free access, as centralized procurement will be the key driver to infrastructure investment; not edge subscription.  The foundations for balanced settlements are already developing organically with Big data and online advertising platforms whereby the central procurer can see the return on the &#8220;free&#8221; or subsidized communications session married to some commercially supported transaction.  </p>
<p>You wouldn&#8217;t have believed me in 1984 if I told you that 90% of all long-distance communications would be free or perceived as free/unlimited by 2000; and yet it was.  That&#8217;s the future we need and the sooner people see what Google is doing to take on the vertically integrated carriers, and not criticize them, the sooner we&#8217;ll get there.</p>
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		<title>By: jaak defour</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1302192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jaak defour]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1302192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think &quot;perception&quot; is different than the &quot;reality&quot;

FT/Orange is (also) a Transit provider (AS5511) and Google pays them to reach certain ISPs/eyeballs (in this case mostly FT/Orange affiliates), like Google pays other Transit providers to reach still other ISPs/eyeballs. Google has always paid for Transit in those cases where they don&#039;t have a settlement free peering, probably some 30% of all their traffic.

Is Google thereby funding mobile network build-out, and paying a termination fee?, I don&#039;t think so!
I assume Google pays market rates for this traffic, in the order of 1$/Mbps/month for a Transit service.
However, the costs of building a Local Mobile network are in the order of 1000$/Mbps/month.

That is, Google&#039;s contribution to mobile network funding is negligible, and the money exchanged is immaterial to both parties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8220;perception&#8221; is different than the &#8220;reality&#8221;</p>
<p>FT/Orange is (also) a Transit provider (AS5511) and Google pays them to reach certain ISPs/eyeballs (in this case mostly FT/Orange affiliates), like Google pays other Transit providers to reach still other ISPs/eyeballs. Google has always paid for Transit in those cases where they don&#8217;t have a settlement free peering, probably some 30% of all their traffic.</p>
<p>Is Google thereby funding mobile network build-out, and paying a termination fee?, I don&#8217;t think so!<br />
I assume Google pays market rates for this traffic, in the order of 1$/Mbps/month for a Transit service.<br />
However, the costs of building a Local Mobile network are in the order of 1000$/Mbps/month.</p>
<p>That is, Google&#8217;s contribution to mobile network funding is negligible, and the money exchanged is immaterial to both parties.</p>
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		<title>By: laurentperche</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1302061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[laurentperche]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 05:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1302061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

The important issue here is to know what Google is actually paying for. Before knowing that, everything we write and comment is pure speculations and jumping to conclusion is not the right thing to do.
Being a native french speaker, I did watch the Interview (http://youtu.be/-_g2zB-TUtk). What Stephane Richard is saying is the following &quot; The proportion of traffic which is generated by Google on our networks and which is subject to some sort of monetization is about 50%&quot;. He also said that Google was not the only traffic that Orange was monetizing.
This could mean a lot of different things. For example, it could be that Google has Google Caches installed in Orange network and that Orange is charging Google for Colocation and Bandwidth. If this was the case, should Google be &quot;ashamed&quot; of doing so?

The Eric Schmidt analogy to an &quot;highway&quot; is interesting because the reasoning works only if everyone is driving at a similar speed and respects the road regulations. If you start to have lots of Ferraris and Lamborghinis on the fast lane then nobody else can use the fast lane until an additional fast lane is being built. The question being: &quot;who pays for the additional fast lane?&quot; some would argue that the Ferraris owners should fit the bill.
Will wait on your update on this on-going story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>The important issue here is to know what Google is actually paying for. Before knowing that, everything we write and comment is pure speculations and jumping to conclusion is not the right thing to do.<br />
Being a native french speaker, I did watch the Interview (<a href="http://youtu.be/-_g2zB-TUtk" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/-_g2zB-TUtk</a>). What Stephane Richard is saying is the following &#8221; The proportion of traffic which is generated by Google on our networks and which is subject to some sort of monetization is about 50%&#8221;. He also said that Google was not the only traffic that Orange was monetizing.<br />
This could mean a lot of different things. For example, it could be that Google has Google Caches installed in Orange network and that Orange is charging Google for Colocation and Bandwidth. If this was the case, should Google be &#8220;ashamed&#8221; of doing so?</p>
<p>The Eric Schmidt analogy to an &#8220;highway&#8221; is interesting because the reasoning works only if everyone is driving at a similar speed and respects the road regulations. If you start to have lots of Ferraris and Lamborghinis on the fast lane then nobody else can use the fast lane until an additional fast lane is being built. The question being: &#8220;who pays for the additional fast lane?&#8221; some would argue that the Ferraris owners should fit the bill.<br />
Will wait on your update on this on-going story.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1301974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1301974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anony, Google paying Orange is just a hack to get around the fact that the business machinery for end-to-end quality of service does not currently exist.  In some future world, Google would just pay their own network provider, who would work out the settlements with whoever else is on the end-to-end path.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anony, Google paying Orange is just a hack to get around the fact that the business machinery for end-to-end quality of service does not currently exist.  In some future world, Google would just pay their own network provider, who would work out the settlements with whoever else is on the end-to-end path.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan brown</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1301860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan brown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 18:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1301860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Don&#039;t be evil&quot; ???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t be evil&#8221; ???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wedge</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2013/01/18/google-should-be-ashamed-for-paying-carriers-to-handle-its-traffic/#comment-1301575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wedge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 01:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=602427#comment-1301575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those who didn&#039;t understand the real implications, they will soon realize that in a not so distant future, creating the &quot;next big thing&quot; will be so expensive because we will need to raise money to pay to a bunch of ISPs to have our bits travel in an &quot;acceptable&quot; way. Only the deep pockets companies will have enough money to have a decent quality for their service, making the process of innovation almost an impossible task. Strange that Google benefited from the &quot;best effort&quot; when they started and when they bought YouTube and now they are pushing for a new environment that only the rich can have a decent quality for their services. The real game here is to avoid the competition of the future, the same one that keeps the industry innovating, creates more jobs and make everybody else happy. I never bought the &quot;don&#039;t do evil&quot; stuff. It was a clever marketing idea to gain sympathy(I wonder why this is not spoken anymore). The examples of the first version of their browser&#039;s End User license and then the street view cars collecting more than &quot;photos&quot; showed their intentions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who didn&#8217;t understand the real implications, they will soon realize that in a not so distant future, creating the &#8220;next big thing&#8221; will be so expensive because we will need to raise money to pay to a bunch of ISPs to have our bits travel in an &#8220;acceptable&#8221; way. Only the deep pockets companies will have enough money to have a decent quality for their service, making the process of innovation almost an impossible task. Strange that Google benefited from the &#8220;best effort&#8221; when they started and when they bought YouTube and now they are pushing for a new environment that only the rich can have a decent quality for their services. The real game here is to avoid the competition of the future, the same one that keeps the industry innovating, creates more jobs and make everybody else happy. I never bought the &#8220;don&#8217;t do evil&#8221; stuff. It was a clever marketing idea to gain sympathy(I wonder why this is not spoken anymore). The examples of the first version of their browser&#8217;s End User license and then the street view cars collecting more than &#8220;photos&#8221; showed their intentions.</p>
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