Comments on: How battery startups are trying to survive in tough times

By: Ucilia Wang

Ucilia Wang — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 16:31:38 +0000

We’ve covered Better Place’s effort to popularize battery swapping. So far, the business model hasn’t proved to be a good idea. Cost remains an issue even with the battery swap. You are asking consumers to change their car fueling habit, and the proposition isn’t compelling yet: http://gigaom.com/cleantech/report-better-place-laying-off-hundreds/

By: CDF

CDF — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 07:21:36 +0000

For the battery business to grow, electric cars will have to become a norm. The problem with electric vehicles is the extreme cost of the battery. In a gasoline system, you buy your energy as you go. In an electric car, a large portion of the energy expense is paid up front. What if there was a battery swap infastructure? What if we only had to pay for the use of the 5000 charge cycles at a time? Check out this great video on the topic at TED
http://www.ted.com/talks/shai_agassi_on_electric_cars.html

By: Felix Hoenikker

Felix Hoenikker — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:32:31 +0000

Its very similar to solar and LEDs, you could purchase LFP 186560′s, ripped off A123 design, for about 25% of A123′s cost (<$200/kWh) in China for a couple years now. Knowing the manufacturing equipment and throughput utilized, its clear that those companies were selling below cost. China is playing a subsidies game and waiting out the competition by killing them on ASP. The difference from solar/LEDs this time around is that China learned not to go buck wild on capex and buy up the cheap assets of their fallen competitors.

By: Ucilia Wang

Ucilia Wang — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:05:09 +0000

Yeah, I thought about comparing it to solar because of the similarities in terms of over supply and too-optimistic outlook. But then I thought batteries are pervasive in our lives, so it’s not just a homogeneous and emerging market like solar (except for EVs/grid storage). Is there more of a parallel between batteries and chips? You have the giants that hog the microprocessor and memory chip market, and then you have startups coming up with something far better designs in other segments.

By: michael kanellos

michael kanellos — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:40:07 +0000

I was going to ask him that. How can you compete with Panasonic and LG? But didn’t get the chance.

The only way they can do it is through licensing. Envia started this idea in 2010. Nearly every VC poo-poohed it. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/a-survival-strategy-for-battery-start-ups

And they were dismissive for good reasons But it also turns out to the be ONLY avenue. And since then Envia doing well. In some ways it is similar to solar. US panel manufacturers croak, but high tech IP like innovalight can make it.

On other notes, the guy speaking about natural gas later in the day ended up, weirdly, making the case for EVs. He said gas dispensers cost $4000, or more than home chargers. And that the cars come with a premium. So why not by electric and save on fuel too. CNG cars seem to be floating on hype adn hype alone.