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Summary:

Is Microsoft really thinking about competing directly with its trusted Windows Phone partner Nokia? The folks who know for sure aren’t saying, but Nokia CEO Stephen Elop believes that even if Microsoft chooses that option, Nokia has contractual rights to unique technology.

Stephen Elop and Steve Ballmer

A year and a half ago, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop wrote a passionate memo to his employees, warning them that Nokia was perched dangerously atop a “burning platform” that the company had to flee in order to survive. Three product generations later, Elop may be about to realize that the company that tossed Nokia a lifeboat — Microsoft — may be dousing that lifeboat with gasoline.

Nokia’s Lumia smartphones have been critically acclaimed as one of the first true answers to the iPhone that were based around a unique experience, rather than a homage (or copycat, depending on your perspective) to the iPhone experience that kicked off the mobile computing renaissance. However, they have done nothing to change either Nokia or Microsoft’s mobile market position, as the modern smartphone market remains a two-horse race in the U.S. according to Comscore’s latest data.

Nokia Lumia 920 smartphones

And after Microsoft shocked the PC industry earlier this year with plans to build its own tablet based around Windows 8, persistent rumors have circulated that Microsoft also plans to build its own smartphone, which would throw the “special relationship” between Microsoft and Nokia into a new place. In an interview with GigaOM Tuesday, Elop declined to comment directly on whether Microsoft has plans to undercut his business. However, he did point out that because of the strong bet that Nokia placed in Windows Phone when no other phone maker would make more than a tepid commitment, Nokia won certain “exclusivities” that no other Windows Phone maker — not even Microsoft — has the right to duplicate.

A transcript of my interview with Elop (edited for length, clarity, and to remove all of our “ums”) follows below.

When did you learn that Microsoft was doing the Surface tablet?

I think everybody in the industry, PC manufacturers, OEMs, partners, we all heard in the days before the Surface tablet was released. We were no different than anybody else, it was in the days leading up to that announcement.

What was your reaction?

Well, I have some history with Microsoft as you know

Just a tad.

I think I understand it, in that Microsoft wants to have the best combined experiences — hardware, software and services — to showcase what Windows is capable of. I think there is a point of view, that either through using stores of their own, creating specific hardware to highlight things, (that) they have to take steps to set a certain bar in terms of what they expect the Windows experience to be. And so to the extent that there’s quite a bit of history on the PC side of things, where they understand pretty well what the OEMs will do, and the nature of the hardware, how that compares with competitors that like sitting on your lap (points at my MacBook Air), (they) need to make sure the bar is pretty well set.

On the phone side of things, we’re particularly proud of the fact that with the devices we’re introducing, like the Lumia 900 at CES a year ago, we’re winning awards like best of show, saying this is the best that’s being done. On the phone side, there’s a bit of a different pattern there, particularly given the close relationship with Microsoft and Nokia.

Well there has been several reports today that suggest Microsoft is in fact building their own branded phone. They’ve clearly signaled an interest in doing their own hardware with Surface, and over the past months since that introduction, have been very coy about the prospect of a phone. How would that change the relationship?

The way I think about that, I don’t think it changes the relationship. It’s incumbent upon us at all points in time to build the world’s most innovative smartphones. Which is what we believe we’ve done, for example, with the Lumia 920. That’s something that’s done based on years and years of work, and years of investment in what makes great mobile devices.

Nokia Lumia 920 PureView camera demo

A sample photo from the PureView camera on Nokia’s Lumia 920.

For example, the reason the Lumia 920 is standing out so well amongst the competition, one of the reasons is the imaging capability, this low-light photography capability. That’s five or six years of work in our labs, engineers doing nothing else but working on that technology. Saying, “oh, this year, we’re going to do our own phone,” doesn’t allow you to do that. You have to make those investments over a period of time.

You are putting many of your eggs in the Microsoft basket. How do you carve out that space for Nokia, to make sure you don’t lose control of the fact that at the end of the day, you have to move phones. Microsoft is licensing bits, but you have to move product.

The way we do that is that we have defined contractually and in practice, a way we operate to make sure that jointly we’re setting priorities for what needs to be done, to make sure there are certain capabilities or even exclusivities that are included for Nokia products for things that are most important to us. Clearly, photography and optics are an example of things that are important to us.

They have to create an environment in which our work can be done; they have to give us the hooks. But then, the actual magic that makes optical image stabilization work, which is hardware and software, is done by Nokia engineers.

But they aren’t necessarily creating custom parts of Windows Phone that are exclusive to you.

They could.

That’s not what I asked. Are they doing it?

What they’ve done in the camera case is given hooks, capabilities that others could take advantage of, to plug things in. Of course, you need something to plug in, and we happen to have made the investment over the years in this PureView technology that can be plugged in. From our perspective, this is an important point about what we’ve done at Nokia, the percentage of our R&D that’s focused on productive R&D–not plumbing–has gone up substantially.

What Microsoft has done with Windows Phone is create a square in which you guys can do certain things, Samsung, can do certain things, HTC can do certain things. And then the things that you do within that square are things that are unique to you. But, there isn’t necessarily a Nokia build of Windows Phone.

We have rights beyond any of the other manufacturers to do unique things and to enforce certain exclusivities for our products. We don’t disclose what those are, or the extent of those. But we have the ability to differentiate.

We earned that right by being the only company who said, “we are placing our primary bet on Windows Phone.” That was a specific negotiated aspect of the relationship.

If the OEM you’re competing with is Microsoft, that makes the world a little more different.

We still preserve the same rights under the contract, regardless of who is making those phones. There are certain things we have rights to.

  1. Seriously? Stop complaining, and focus ELOP. Your marketing team stinks. You have the ferrari of SMARTPHONES in the nokia 920, but it remains relatively unknown to the general public.
    Get Beiber, get Jay Z, get Kanye, Carly Rae Jepsen and “CALL THEM MAYBE?”

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    1. Ferrari of smartphones? At best Camry or if being generous the Audi of smartphones.

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      1. Name a phone with a faster screen, a better resolution, a better camera, better augmented reality, better and cheaper mapping, innovative and cool design and such great support. Of course it is the Ferrari of smartphones.

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    2. Please do not get those people to endorse the 920, those people suck.

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    3. They got Nicki Minaj for the Lumia 900.

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  2. Buy a Lumia 920, get 10 free shares of Nokia stock (sure to become collectors items)!

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  3. Gene Romanchuk Tuesday, October 2, 2012

    100% agree that Nokia’s marketing team either does not have enough resources, or simply doesn’t have a vision of how to present such a great product to the public.
    YouTube advertisement IS NOT ENOUGH!!!
    You need to be on TV with your best commercials that won’t look like absolutely not convincing Lumia 900 TV commercials.

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  4. “We still preserve the same rights under the contract…there are certain things we have rights to.”

    Stephen Elop, you don’t really anticipate getting into a legal battle with Microsoft, do you? I believe they have larger resources than Nokia at this time.

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  5. Nokia’s hardware would have run beautifully with the Android ecosystem. They would have been competing with Samsung and HTC on their hardware and design strengths instead of competing with them on the ecosystem front, where they are extremely weak. There are enough Nokia fans out there who will go back to buying a Nokia phone if they simply ended the stupid infatuation with Windows Phone OS and exclusivity. Make a few Android phones, dammit! You folks at Nokia can be at par with Samsung once buyers get over the blunders of the past two years seeing a few sweet looking Lumias sporting the little green robot.

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    1. Why would they want to use a fragmented and laggy operating system which supplies all your personal data to Google?

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      1. Maybe because people are buying that so called laggy fragmented system like its in limited supply. See this crap only exists in the minds of fanboys.

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  6. Once it is known that any MS made smartphone won’t be available until this time next year all the concern in this story will dissipate.

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  7. I feel like there’s some dissapointment brooding in Elop as well over Microsoft’s enthusiasm to manufacture devices as well.

    Let’s face it: Microsoft has been a terrible partner for all their existence, really. 2007 LG had all their eggs in the Windows Mobile basket, but then Microsoft decided to reboot WMo entirely. This left LG without a product for a few years, hurriedly scrambling to use other platforms.

    I don’t see why Microsoft would prove to be a more reliable partner now. Elop might think they have some contractual advantages, but I think Microsoft’s law department will find the clauses that grants them with unlimited rights to their own OS.

    Dark times ahead from a Nokian point of view, I fear! Although great devices too. Let’s hope what Nokia’s already done with Windows Phone and Lumia will be enough to attract attention.

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  8. The idea that MS is intending to make their own phone is not buzz. In my feeling, some people at MS lost their trust in Nokia, and doesn’t believe Nokia will be fast enough to sell their phones worldwide and fight Apple and Samsung. Also, the news that Nokia intends to sell the HQ seems to be true, the giant is in trouble more that we know, and some people at MS definitely knows more that we know. I don’t believe to Elop and his sales b-s. The only way for Nokia to recover is if by X-mas in all countries worldwide people will be able buy 820 & 920 in tag price of Euro 300-400. In the prices they have published (approx Euro 750) and plan of delivery Q1/2013, there is no point even to manufacture them, They simply lost the game.

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    1. Selling a building and leasing it back is common practice. It’s not a big deal, and leverages an asset’s value.

      They would be stupid not to do it. I’m surprised it wasn’t already done.

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  9. You can’t miss a 10 yard pass by 15 yards…

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  10. This could have been avoided by simply going with Android. Right now Nokia is stuck with a leader that’s crossed between a MS loyalist and a tech bubble fanboy.

    Fanboys still think Apple is running the show here while 68% of consumers, the people with the money, are telling you that Android runs the show. Only an Apple fanboy will argue with that number or start that crap about multiple devices blah blah. But the truth remains that if you want your phone to sell it better have Android on it.

    Then there’s the fanboyish idea that Nokia released a true answer to the iPhone. In what way? What is that even supposes to mean? In the consumer world, again the people with the money, nothing. Nevermind that the only mainstream device even remotely mimicking the iPhone has been the Galaxy S. For all those so called mocks you’d think people would stop and purchase the cheaper iPhone 4 or 4s and get the real thing. But they pass right by it and buy the “clone” for more money. That’s because the only place these devices are seen as clones are in the minds of fanboys.

    As long as this fanboy mentality is guiding Nokia they are doomed no matter how great their hardware is. It does nothing for you without an OS to run it and the people have shown time and time again their OS of choice. I leave it right there and allow the fanboys to prove my point.

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  11. At the end Nokia is going to license Sailfish OS from Jolla, and possibly buy (back) the company..

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  12. Nicholas Paredes Wednesday, October 3, 2012

    We all wonder why Nokia let go of MeeGo. Frankly it was a fantastic open platform, and could be differentiated from Android. Even as a side project, it provided a platform to innovate openly, and there were plenty of us interested in the technology. Nokia wouldn’t have had to do all of the work, and didn’t anyway.

    I am unsure how Nokia could survive the onslaught of the iPhone and Android, other than to have actively fought in multiple platforms and investing heavily in product as Samsung did. Nokia laughed in the face of competition, and were badly bitten. With bad numbers ahead, investment is likely to be cut further.

    Nokia Maps is at least a solid product. Windows Phone itself is decreasing in market share. This is a very bad sign for the platform after a year. Microsoft is simply trying to save its investment, and Nokia isn’t high on its list of priorities. They’ll buy them for the maps and services.

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    1. Windows Phone is increasing in market share worldwide. The USA does not equal the world by a long shot. iPhone and Blackberry are losing market share all over the world while Windows Phone and Android are growing.

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  13. I presume he means dump it and stop wasting time. WP + NOKIA = Disaster

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  14. Windows 8 is the reboot for MSFT. One new user interface across phone tablet, gaming and PC devices. New software to leverage the new UI. There will be a lot of loose ends and SP1 will come out quickly.

    That’s the bet, and always has been. Windows Phone 8 is going to get a lot of visibility because the UI is a common experience that everyone will interact with to some degree on another device.

    The phone cycle is a two year cycle, based on contracts.

    To all the folks suggesting Android is the answer, consider this: only Samsung seem to have made it a profitable business for themselves. Not HTC. Not Motorola. Not LG. Possible Sony. Android is not a sure bet either.

    As has been shown, most people buy the phone they are guided to by the store employee. If a customer asks for an iPhone they’ll be shown one. But carriers have actively requested their employees to steer customers to iPhone alternatives because the subsidy costs kill carrier profitability.

    In conversations with many Android users about this, it seems their driving desire to see Nokia build an Android phone is they love what they see coming from Nokia and don’t like their current available Android choices. That’s a positive thing for Nokia. Anytime I show my Lumia 900 to these same Android phone users they are surprised: “wow, that’s really nice. That’s not what I expected. I like it.” are typical comments.

    Try it. If you like it, buy it.

    Nokia are making a platform bet on Windows 8 ecosystem. Their goal is to be the Apple of Windows. They seem to be making all the right moves so far.

    Now, as has been correctly pointed out, it comes to pricing, promotion, and distribution. They need to get those right too. It’s too early to tell one way or another if they will.

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  15. What nokia and microsoft need to learn is that to compete with iphone and win you need to INOVATE something diferent to iphone that is eye catching, has quality and works better. Stop the squared phone structure. Get out of that paradigm of thinking. This is why i think SONY lost the music battle over ipods. The touch technology was there already and hard drive storage but NOBODY risked to make it portable. We used cds and cassettes for years!. Everybody just follow and thats why you can not become the leader. It costs a lot of money to create? to be imaginative? I was sad when i saw the lumina structure: ipod like but uglier. A clone on shape and interface big icons… what kind of people do the designs? thats why apple is wining… implementing efectively, a good product worth to buy and you are happy with it, so nobody can come and say : hey my phone is better than yours!!

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  16. Question to Kevin; Do you think that fact that people didn’t like Microsoft Mobile tiles is sign to Windows 8, that maybe people will not like it too?

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