35 Comments

Summary:

Craiglist has followed up on earlier threats and sued popular apartment site PadMapper for dipping into its listings. Who’s to blame — PadMapper for free-riding? Or Craigslist for refusing to innovate?

Predator
photo: Mario Bono

(Updated 6:00pm with 3Taps response)

Craigslist has followed up on earlier threats and filed a lawsuit against popular apartment listing site PadMapper. The case raises questions over whether Craigslist is stifling innovation or simply protecting its data.

In a complaint filed in San Francisco, Craigslist is accusing PadMapper and “one stop data shop” 3taps of a slew of infractions, including copyright and trademark violations, and is demanding the court issue a preliminary injunction to stop them from using its listings.

PadMapper, the site at the center of the dispute, is popular because of a modern interface that lets apartment hunters see a variety of potential places on a single map (see screenshot at right for an example).  Much of its data, however, is drawn from Craigslist listings. After receiving a cease and desist letter from Craigslist in June, PadMapper agreed to take the listings down.

PadMapper soon put the listings back up again, however, after owner Eric DeMenthon declared in a blog post that he had found a “legally kosher way” to do so. The legal dodge was based on the fact that PadMapper is now obtaining the data from 3taps, a company that “scrapes” data from other websites (including Craigslist) rather than tapping into the data directly.

Update: Greg Kidd, CEO of 3taps, said by phone that his company doesn’t “scrape” Craigslist but simply draws on data available on the public internet in the same way that other search engines do. He added that Craigslist may control access to data but that it doesn’t own facts expressed by that data — such as the fact that a house is for sale.

Craigslist’s complaint, however, rejects PadMapper’s legal theory and accuses the two companies of “unlawfully and unabashedly mass-harvesting and redistributing postings entrusted by craigslist users to their local craigslist sites.” The company said it offered a license that would have allowed PadMapper to use its data on mobile applications but that the competitor did not accept the terms.

The lawsuit raises questions about who should be able to use the vast amount of user-created data hosted on a site like Craigslist.

On one hand, Craigslist argues it built the classifieds community and that sites like PadMapper are simply free-riding on its hard work. But on the other hand, users and developers are exasperated with Craigslist’s insistence on preserving an outdated interface and design. Here is how Molly McHugh of DigitalTrends described the Craigslist experience (emphasis ours):

The search tool is antiquated, the images are poor or nonexistent, locations of listings are hardly dependable, and you can forget about an integrated way to save anything for later reference. There is a litany of shortcomings that come with the Craigslist apartment search; they are many and they are painful … Craigslist. Your site is chock-full of data I need, but your interface is an exercise in torture. Either give me the tools to effectively use your site or allow someone else to do it.

Legal Toss-ups

McHugh makes a fair case that Craigslist is shortchanging consumers. But does it have a legal right to do so? Even though the company’s complaint swings for the fences with multi-barreled accusations, it’s not clear how many of them will hold up.

The copyright claim, for starters, may be tenuous because Craigslist doesn’t own the copyrights to the listings — those belong to the users who wrote them. While its terms of service may require users to give it exclusive rights to the listings, this does not mean Craigslist has a copyright claim against sites like PadMapper. Craigslist also claims to own things like its layout and “time stamps and unique craigslist user ID numbers” but its not clear if these type of claims qualify for protection in the first place.

Craigslist is also making trademark claims but these too are no slam dunk given that it will have to show consumer confusion to succeed. Its strongest claim may be against 3taps which is running a website called “craiggers.”

The complaint, posted below, also claims breach of contract, cyberpiracy and violations of California business laws.

In the bigger picture, the dispute between Craigslist and PadMapper could be an important test case of how courts will respond to such claims at a time when technology is making data-scraping ever easier. Is it possible to protect companies from unfair free-riding without also also depriving consumers of new innovation?

3taps’ Kidd, who is also an investor in Twitter, wrote by email: “We love Craigslist and I’ve got a lot of respect for Craig and the good work he’s done in many realms.  We want Craigslist to succeed.  But we also want to see innovators do great things with the public data (just as we do at Twitter).”

Craigslist v PadMapper
(Image by Mario Bono via Shutterstock)

  1. Flux Research Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    “your interface is an exercise in torture”

    Truth!

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  2. useitorloseit Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    Wow, when did Craigslist go from being a hippie community tool to being a corporate villain launching frivolous lawsuits to squash innovation? Copyright violation has no grounds at all based on how PadMapper is using the data. They’re just trying to bury a one-man start-up in litigation. That is really sad.

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    1. Jayson Elliot Tuesday, July 24, 2012

      Padmapper isn’t being stifled, they’re perfectly free to continue listing apartments. They just can’t piggyback on another site’s data to do so.

      One approach might be for Padmapper to create their own listing tool that would cross-post to Craigslist. That way the data would originate from them, and they’d be in the clear.

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      1. useitorloseit Tuesday, July 24, 2012

        They have that. It’s called PadLister.com although the founder states that he has not marketed it because he didn’t want to compete with Craigslist and it was more of a back-up for him in case CL shut him down.

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      2. They do already have this, but it misses out on all the aggregate data from Craigslist– who, by the way, do not allow automatic posts to their site. They want user’s posts to be locked into their 1996 interface.

        So disappointed with CL’s shitty attitude and wish there was an alternative at this point. User-contributed data needs to remain free.

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      3. The automatic posting feature would make CL TERRIBLE to navigate, with the numerous repeat posting under different names/scams already prevalent, in addition to people advertising their services instead of one-ofs, which are more helpful genearlly. Image if people could repost real-esate automatically, how would anyone find a new listing?

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  3. K.c. Caranicas Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    Craigslist better think about the ramifications for the precedence they are setting. I love PadMapper and applaud what they do. It’s the internet information is free. Craigslist has been around long enough that they should know this.

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  4. Someone Who Pays Attention Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    PadMapper == late to the game. Someone else has been doing this for a long time. Sucks to be the one who gets tagged w a lawsuit though…

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  5. There are way better apartment listings sites that use engineering rather than simple scraping to solve the problem padmapper is trying to solve only much better and without legal problems. placeofmine and hotpads (yuck at that interface) come to mind

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  6. Personally I love the clean UI of Craigslist. Take a look at the mess that eBay has become and you’ll see why.

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    1. Ryan Gravener Tuesday, July 24, 2012

      Ebay owns part of craigslist.

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      1. What’s your point?

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    2. Clean UI of Craigslist? Please, it’s pathetic. I could create a better UI than what’s offered there.

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    3. There is a difference between a clean UI that is usable and a clean UI that is so clean it’s sparse and arduous to peruse the data on it. Reddit is a great example of the former and Craigslist is a great example of the latter.

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  7. Innovation would be a company building its own product from scratch. This is a clear case of Craigslist protecting its data, not stifling innovation. You tech “press” people are annoying with your constant assaults on Craigslist.

    If you want innovation in the classifieds space, build your own.

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  8. I used to like Craig’s List. But now they are not much more than an online vulture. Yuck!

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  9. I love pad mapper and cannot imagine apartment hunting without it…

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  10. Craig, get your ass movin or get the hell out of the way! Obstructionism is never a tactic.

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  11. I’m pretty sure craigslist takes ownership of the content when the user agrees to their TOS so your ownership argument isn’t valid. See section 3.a. http://www.craigslist.org/about/terms.of.use

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  12. I found PadMapper invaluable for my last apartment search: the Google Maps and WalkScore integration was especially useful. Too many Craigslist ads are incomplete or downright fraudulent when it comes to *where* the rental is. I’m disappointed Craigslist couldn’t incorporate PadMapper’s work; maybe they’re not tired of old-timey blue serif text, but I sure am.

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  13. Melanie Archer Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    I found PadMapper invaluable for my last apartment search: the Google Maps and WalkScore integration was especially useful. Too many Craigslist ads are incomplete or downright fraudulent when it comes to *where* the rental is. I’m disappointed Craigslist couldn’t incorporate PadMapper’s work; maybe they’re not tired of old-timey blue serif text, but I sure am.

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  14. Sam Auciello Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    It’s not like anyone puts a housing listing on Craiglist hoping it won’t be seen anywhere besides Craigslist.

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  15. Anybody want to go egg Craigslist HQ?

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  16. Roberto Olivares Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    Why is it so hard for some people to get it through their heads that the data was collected by Craigslist.com and the users trusted Craigslist.com with it.
    Regardless of whether anyone likes how Craigslist.com displays the data or use it at all is irrelevant.
    If I go around collecting signatures with addresses and phone numbers, and my roommate who’s on the same network “uses” my data since “I wasn’t doing anything with it” or “because his UI to display it in is better than mine”, I will beat his ass for not asking me for it, I did the work.

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  17. In this Iam on CL’s side. Padmapper is a parasite feeding off of CL. YOu can complain all you can about bad CL UI,but that is TOTALLY their choice.
    If Padmapper is so concerned about usability of CL data,why the hell cant they pay CL or be a partner ?
    arguing that all CL data is public data is dubious. People add CL data ,since they get free service from CL.You cannot get free service and own your data.

    try that argument with FB or GOOG,and see how you get slapped in the face :D

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  18. Rico Pagliuca Tuesday, July 24, 2012

    Really shoddy copy editing on this post. Maybe hire a few people with some understanding of grammar and syntax? :]

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  19. Craigslist definitely has a terrible interface and a terrible attitude. Even if they are “in the right” they come off like a bunch of jerks in this. I hope this lawsuit brings Craigslist nothing but bad press and helps to crack away at it’s foundation so that something better can emerge.

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  20. if CL is being this bad on its UI, why would we see major shift in user over these years?

    Not that I like CL…it looks dates for sure, but it’s surely easy to navigate. for instance my computer illiterate grandpa would be able to post something without much trouble. Flashy UI probably doesn’t appeal her much.

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  21. Craigslist used to the hip, new dude on the net, but now he’s the old guy yelling at the kids to get off his lawn. Instead of suing Padmapper, Craigslist should buy them. It’s clearly a better way to find a place to live. I used it recently and it works great.

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  22. Just another service that refuses to stay relevant. Adapt or die, Craigslist. Don’t force the present out of the picture.

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  23. The great community CL built does not belong to CL. It belongs to the people. And the people have the right to move on to a better tool. CL should not interfere with that, even when the community decides for a non-CL UI

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  24. You know, there used to be this great website in my town that let people search CL for their stolen bikes – basically if you had a bike X stolen, you could use this free service to scan for listings with “bike X” in them and then check them out to see if it was your stolen bike. And it worked pretty well and was generally very popular and awesome and helped a lot of people get their bikes back.

    And then of course Craigslist showed up and cease and desisted the site and that was the end of that. And that was the day I decided I would applaud anything terrible that happened to the asshats running Craigslist, so today I sit here and clap and hope this case draws well needed attention to CL’s asshattery.

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  25. most people commenting do not seem to get the fact of how padmapper is syndicating the content.

    it’s scraping craigslist website with automated bots for craigslist content without their consent.

    if someone was doing it to your website – you wouldn’t be so cheery about it.

    it’s blatant theft. i hate CL as well. but they are in the right here.

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  26. CL has too much spam. There are better alternatives like Findmyroof.

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  27. Michael Angelo Tuesday, October 9, 2012

    http://i.imm.io/HiFS.png

    screen shot. you cannot even use the words padmapper on any CL ad. hard censorship right here, china style

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