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	<title>Comments on: Esther Dyson: Privacy Is a Marketing Problem</title>
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		<title>By: Social Media and Privacy: Get Serious or Get Regulated: Tech News &#171;</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2010/10/19/esther-dyson-privacy-is-a-marketing-problem/#comment-490388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Social Media and Privacy: Get Serious or Get Regulated: Tech News &#171;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 17:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=167268#comment-490388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] on lobbying this quarter; Facebook, $120,000), explain what’s going on to legislators and to the public, and seriously consider self-regulation. Additionally, the industry [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on lobbying this quarter; Facebook, $120,000), explain what’s going on to legislators and to the public, and seriously consider self-regulation. Additionally, the industry [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2010/10/19/esther-dyson-privacy-is-a-marketing-problem/#comment-408306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Gunn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=167268#comment-408306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s bizarre. If I, as an academic researcher, want to study the opinions and habits of people I have to go through a grueling review by my institution&#039;s ethics board and adhere to standards that have the best interest of the subject in mind.  If, however, I&#039;m a website, I can collect exactly the same data, on a far wider scale, and I can do whatever the hell I want to with it, and I don&#039;t have to answer to anyone.

It&#039;s fine to consider Facebook members the product, but that&#039;s not how Facebook presents itself. It presents itself as a personal networking site oriented around the users, so it&#039;s not surprising those people would want some say.  If you&#039;re selling widgets, those widgets don&#039;t have an opinion on how they&#039;re marketed or who they&#039;re sold to, but we&#039;re talking about people here. If Erik&#039;s point about people being the product is true, then Facebook, Foursquare, et al. are not just incompetently explaining things to their members. They&#039;re deliberately obscuring the issue. There&#039;s a reason they call the form you have study participants sign the &quot;_informed_ consent&quot; form. Can you imagine what people would say if the forms listed &quot;sell your information to online marketing firms&quot; as a possible use of your data?

There&#039;s a difference between publicly funded research studies and private companies, but the standards for ethical treatment of people don&#039;t vary depending on who&#039;s doing it.  

It is a marketing problem, but the problem they&#039;re trying to solve isn&#039;t disclosure. It&#039;s &quot;How can we continue to get away with this?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s bizarre. If I, as an academic researcher, want to study the opinions and habits of people I have to go through a grueling review by my institution&#8217;s ethics board and adhere to standards that have the best interest of the subject in mind.  If, however, I&#8217;m a website, I can collect exactly the same data, on a far wider scale, and I can do whatever the hell I want to with it, and I don&#8217;t have to answer to anyone.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fine to consider Facebook members the product, but that&#8217;s not how Facebook presents itself. It presents itself as a personal networking site oriented around the users, so it&#8217;s not surprising those people would want some say.  If you&#8217;re selling widgets, those widgets don&#8217;t have an opinion on how they&#8217;re marketed or who they&#8217;re sold to, but we&#8217;re talking about people here. If Erik&#8217;s point about people being the product is true, then Facebook, Foursquare, et al. are not just incompetently explaining things to their members. They&#8217;re deliberately obscuring the issue. There&#8217;s a reason they call the form you have study participants sign the &#8220;_informed_ consent&#8221; form. Can you imagine what people would say if the forms listed &#8220;sell your information to online marketing firms&#8221; as a possible use of your data?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a difference between publicly funded research studies and private companies, but the standards for ethical treatment of people don&#8217;t vary depending on who&#8217;s doing it.  </p>
<p>It is a marketing problem, but the problem they&#8217;re trying to solve isn&#8217;t disclosure. It&#8217;s &#8220;How can we continue to get away with this?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hall</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2010/10/19/esther-dyson-privacy-is-a-marketing-problem/#comment-302487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=167268#comment-302487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting piece, but not sure I&#039;d agree that young people understand privacy issues &quot;pretty well&quot;. Here in the UK, 13% of girls and 21% of boys aged 8-15yrs have a Facebook profile with default privacy settings, (ie. wide open). They&#039;re pretty large percentages - particularly in light of FB Places. Either they don&#039;t understand or they don&#039;t care ... and if they don&#039;t care then they don&#039;t understand. So while I&#039;d agree that openness and transparency are key, I&#039;d argue that so is education around the issues - for young people in particular.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting piece, but not sure I&#8217;d agree that young people understand privacy issues &#8220;pretty well&#8221;. Here in the UK, 13% of girls and 21% of boys aged 8-15yrs have a Facebook profile with default privacy settings, (ie. wide open). They&#8217;re pretty large percentages &#8211; particularly in light of FB Places. Either they don&#8217;t understand or they don&#8217;t care &#8230; and if they don&#8217;t care then they don&#8217;t understand. So while I&#8217;d agree that openness and transparency are key, I&#8217;d argue that so is education around the issues &#8211; for young people in particular.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Bigelow</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2010/10/19/esther-dyson-privacy-is-a-marketing-problem/#comment-302052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erik Bigelow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=167268#comment-302052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure if online privacy is a marketing problem or just a commonsense problem.  Facebook&#039;s customers are not the members.  Facebook&#039;s customers are the zynga&#039;s and rapleafs of the world.  They&#039;re the ones paying facebook&#039;s server bills so they&#039;re the ones that facebook has to keep happy.  The facebook membership is the product that facebook sells.  That&#039;s why you can&#039;t trust your privacy with them.  Your privacy isn&#039;t part of their business model.  That doesn&#039;t mean the trade off isn&#039;t worth it to some people, but really if you&#039;re using their network for free then they should get to sell whatever they want of your identity.  They would have less problems if they were just more transparent about that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if online privacy is a marketing problem or just a commonsense problem.  Facebook&#8217;s customers are not the members.  Facebook&#8217;s customers are the zynga&#8217;s and rapleafs of the world.  They&#8217;re the ones paying facebook&#8217;s server bills so they&#8217;re the ones that facebook has to keep happy.  The facebook membership is the product that facebook sells.  That&#8217;s why you can&#8217;t trust your privacy with them.  Your privacy isn&#8217;t part of their business model.  That doesn&#8217;t mean the trade off isn&#8217;t worth it to some people, but really if you&#8217;re using their network for free then they should get to sell whatever they want of your identity.  They would have less problems if they were just more transparent about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Esther Dyson: Privacy is a marketing problem&#8230; &#124; [mturro: in plain sight]</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2010/10/19/esther-dyson-privacy-is-a-marketing-problem/#comment-302040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Esther Dyson: Privacy is a marketing problem&#8230; &#124; [mturro: in plain sight]]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=167268#comment-302040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This is so incredibly simple and obvious it&#8217;s amazing that it&#8217;s not really common practice. It highlights the extent to which marketing communications is still mired in the demographically driven, generationally directed, yet hopelessly opaque bulk mindset of the previous century. Not sure if it&#8217;s because crafting more personal communication is perceived as too complex–or perhaps too creepy? I mean if Facelessbook starts talking to me like they are actually one of my friends I&#8217;m not sure that it screams &#8220;we respect your privacy&#8221; in the way Dyson would hope it might.     Amplify&#8217;d from gigaom.com [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is so incredibly simple and obvious it&#8217;s amazing that it&#8217;s not really common practice. It highlights the extent to which marketing communications is still mired in the demographically driven, generationally directed, yet hopelessly opaque bulk mindset of the previous century. Not sure if it&#8217;s because crafting more personal communication is perceived as too complex–or perhaps too creepy? I mean if Facelessbook starts talking to me like they are actually one of my friends I&#8217;m not sure that it screams &#8220;we respect your privacy&#8221; in the way Dyson would hope it might.     Amplify&rsquo;d from gigaom.com [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uriah Av-Ron</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2010/10/19/esther-dyson-privacy-is-a-marketing-problem/#comment-302033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uriah Av-Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=167268#comment-302033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article, Liz. Thanks for sharing (I would have missed Esther Dyson&#039;s comments otherwise). I think part of what contributes to the problem is the number of players who sit between the publisher and the end-user. With the presence of an ad network, an exchange, a DSP, an ad optimizer, a data source, etc., it&#039;s hard to figure out where to do what (and I haven&#039;t even gotten to the advertiser / agency side of the equation).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Liz. Thanks for sharing (I would have missed Esther Dyson&#8217;s comments otherwise). I think part of what contributes to the problem is the number of players who sit between the publisher and the end-user. With the presence of an ad network, an exchange, a DSP, an ad optimizer, a data source, etc., it&#8217;s hard to figure out where to do what (and I haven&#8217;t even gotten to the advertiser / agency side of the equation).</p>
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