Comments on: The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:48:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: This Week in Review: Plagiarism and the link, location and context at SXSW, and advice for newspapers | Mark Coddington http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243263 Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:20:39 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243263 [...] this came up, and ex-newspaperman Mathew Ingram strode to Salmon’s defense this time with an eloquent defense of the link. It’s not just a practice for geeky insiders, he argues; it’s “a fundamental [...]

]]> By: lifestream » Blog Archive » publishall 03/13/2010 http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243262 Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:55:23 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243262 [...] The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link [...]

]]> By: The alpha and the omega | Hypercrit http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243261 Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:59:52 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243261 [...] Matthew Ingram tack­les pla­gia­rism from another point of view, say­ing that if jour­nal­ists thought more like blog­gers and truly val­ued hyper­link­ing, then they wouldn’t get them­selves into such messes. [...]

]]> By: This Week in Review: Plagiarism and the link, location and context at SXSW, and advice for newspapers » Nieman Journalism Lab http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243260 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:01:31 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243260 [...] this came up, and ex-newspaperman Mathew Ingram strode to Salmon’s defense this time with an eloquent defense of the link. It’s not just a practice for geeky insiders, he argues; it’s “a fundamental [...]

]]> By: Charles http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243259 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:39:45 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243259 The argument in this article is also echoed strongly in one of the most highly reputed publications of our time, The Onion.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_shudders_at_large_block_of

]]> By: Justin Ellis http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243258 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:28:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243258 Great post Matt. I think the idea of cultural change is a big one, but maybe even broader than just newspapers. Anyone who has worked at a newspaper knows the feeling you get when you see a blog lifting their work, but also when local TV or radio do the same thing. It’s an unspoken agreement that is somehow acceptable. If we wouldn’t want local radio or TV lifting our stuff, we should give credit and tip the cap when credit is due. The same goes for blogs. Plus, from a writing standpoint anyone who does link out can tell you it saves you time and can help build trust with readers.

For a certain number of journalists – and I hesitate to call them older (maybe just the mindset is old) – the idea of linking or pretending we aren’t the sole source is hearsay. That has to change.

]]> By: The Affiliate Weblog » Which Affiliate Programs Generate The Most Money? http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243257 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:37:08 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243257 [...] The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link – GigaOM [...]

]]> By: Phil Simon http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243256 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:12:56 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243256 Sounds like an extension of Andrew Keen’s book, The Cult of the Amateur. Great read.

A proper vetting process would have caught these, er, missteps.

]]> By: Miguel Marcos http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243255 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:36:09 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243255 They don’t “have to” but they may “want to”. Before they publish they make sure their sources are reliable and back up what they are going to publish. In the offline world, we know that sources sometimes look reliable and turn out not to be: remember Judith Miller and Jayson Blair. I think they have no interest in publishing something with links, one or more of which might be modified subsequently to misrepresent what the original article states. The link also has the potential to be hacked: It may also go down temporarily or be taken off permanently.

Links are out of their, and everybody’s, control. Perhaps they could opt to link to a snapshot of a web source at the time of publishing (like archive.org), with the appropriate disclaimer, and with the subsequent possiblity of viewing the live web link.

Still, as I stated, that would require some investment on their part to follow up on this and make sure the web links are live and still live up to the claim of backing up the NYT story so the archives remain a solid source of historical news.

I don’t believe this is a red herring at all. I have very, very high expectations when I read a NYT article. I don’t have anywhere near that expectation of the majority of other sites I regularly read online. If I read a NYT article and clicked on an external link only to get a 404 or, worse, something changed, my perception of the thoroughness of investigation and sourcing of the paper would change. The solidity of their reporting is a unique and highly desirable characteristic of the NYT, something that other web news sources would take years and years to develop. They nuture that that.

]]> By: Mathew Ingram http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243254 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:29:33 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243254 Rainier, I think that’s a bit of a red herring, frankly. Plenty of websites, both from traditional media entities and others, say that there is no guarantee either implied or explicit in their links, and the Web seems to function perfectly well on that understanding.

]]> By: Mathew Ingram http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243253 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:25:27 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243253 Miguel, I don’t see that the NYT has to make any kind of guarantee about the life-span of their links. I think that may be one of the excuses that publications use for avoiding them though.

]]> By: Is This Simon Cowell’s Replacement? | Idol Week 2010 http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243252 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:19:29 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243252 [...] The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link – GigaOM [...]

]]> By: What If: Journalism is the real reason Newspapers are dying? « excapite http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243251 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:56:06 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243251 [...] GigaOm The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link [...]

]]> By: totally RT @mathewi: my take on the Zachary Kouwe plagiarism thing: "The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link" - Viewsflow http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243250 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:54:36 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243250 [...] totally RT @mathewi: my take on the Zachary Kouwe plagiarism thing: "The NYT Needs to Learn the Value of the Link"Close [...]

]]> By: John Pettitt http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243249 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:45:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243249 The flip side of this story is the advent of new linking tools like http://clp.ly that bring attributed context in the form if clips and quote with link.

]]> By: Rainier Wolfcastle http://gigaom.com/2010/03/08/the-nyt-needs-to-learn-the-value-of-the-link/#comment-243248 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:18:03 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=104619#comment-243248 I agree with commenter Miguel Marcos re links degrading/disappearing over time, and the nightmare that results for the NYT archives.

In addition, NYT has a strong reputation to uphold. One of the problems with linking to outside content is that the linked content rarely meets the journalistic standards of an outfit like the Times.

How does the Times reconcile their desire to avoid providing misleading, incomplete, one-sided, and/or unvetted content to their readers with the blog-linking model? Isn’t linking to content, in the modern web context, synonymous with providing that content to one’s readers? If so, isn’t the publication doing the linking responsible for what is written at the linked location?

]]>