118 Comments

Summary:

Apple says it will start selling the Wi-Fi versions of the iPad on Saturday, April 3, for Wi-Fi models and in late April for Wi-Fi + 3G models. Apple says it will start taking pre-orders for both models on March 12.

If you’re a fan of the iPad, like I am, here’s some good news. Apple says it will start selling the Wi-Fi versions of the iPad on Saturday, April 3. The Wi-Fi + 3G models will arrive in late April. From a company press release:

“iPad is something completely new,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We’re excited for customers to get their hands on this magical and revolutionary product and connect with their apps and content in a more intimate, intuitive and fun way than ever before.”

Apple says it will start taking pre-orders for both models on March 12. The iPad costs $499 and up. It’s 0.5 inches thick and weighs just 1.5 pounds and has a theoretical battery life of up to 10 hours. The Wi-Fi + 3G models start at $629. You can reserve a Wi-Fi model and pick it pick up on Saturday, April 3, at an Apple retail store, according to the company. All models of the iPad will be available in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, Switzerland and the UK in late April.

Related Research from GigaOM Pro (sub req’d):

  1. There really should be a 4th category for voting. The “I want to hold it and play with it first, but I am very intrigued” category. Should slot right in between the “Apple die hard” and the “I want nothing more to do with this brand” categories.

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  2. And India?

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    1. Not anytime soon which is a shame because it would just work so well there in my opinion.

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      1. Disappointed.

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      2. Unfortunately, we still have a very limited market for such devices here in India & whatever exists is fulfilled by the grey market. India has never been a very great market for Apple- Macs or official iPhone. We are still a mass market for cheap, value for money devices like Dell or HP laptops & Nokia/Samsung/ Sony Ericcson phones.

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      3. Apple can only be successful in the USA. The Jobsian personality cult and the “it’s very expensive, so it must be better” value judgment can only hold gullible people in the USA.

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      4. @Om
        The top 0.1% of population in India that are interested in Apple products typically get people to buy it in the U.S. and bring it to India.

        @MGriscom
        iPad is not expensive. Not at all:
        http://obamapacman.com/2010/02/think-apple-ipad-costs-too-much-think-again-chart/

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      5. The iPad is very expensive when you consider that for less money, you could buy a netbook with a real, multitasking OS, running Windows 7, and a real keyboard for faster typing. I know I’m in enemy territory here, but Windows 7 is a more powerful and more secure OS.

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      6. And like always we have to outsource iPad for us.. This is really disappointing for us. :|

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  3. I wonder how well this will sell after all the sneering when it was released.

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    1. Expect a great opening weekend with the faithful.
      Expect a massive slowdown after that as people try to experience the device and figure out what it is good for and how it fits in their life.

      If the buzz is good, expect a steady graph going up as word of mouth marketing increases.

      To me its another apple tv. But lets see how it goes.

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  4. Jacob Varghese Friday, March 5, 2010

    This is the ultimate thin client. If Apple is able to deliver on the printing and network server access updates, corporate purchases will be huge.

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    1. According to Jim Cramer of Mad Money, that thing will be huge in the corporate world…

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      1. No effin’ way. Why would I permit such a thing – with a huge security hole of the lies from Apple – on my intranet? I certainly would never pay for such an overpriced unix bos.

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      2. Where would be if not for the US Monday, March 8, 2010

        Remind me to stop listening to Jim kramer. No Flash…no multitask. Apple is getting hacked and attacked. Itunes went down…Iphones are getting hacked into and personal information stolen. 10,000+ KNOWN viruses for the mac. Yeah.. you have fun with that.

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    2. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

      That would be true IF it could multitask. And I hope your companies web site is not flash based. If it is.. you are out of luck. This is just a Apple Newton.

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  5. I’m definitely getting one, and not just for books/movies. I plan on getting pretty comfortable with typing well on it, just like I have on the iPhone, and using it as a MacBook substitute on days with light work. Short blog posts, customer service emails… can’t wait to turn on the 3G plan and try working in the middle of a park for the morning. Definitely a better view than my home office.

    Of course, wireless carriers are going to have to do something about this “pay for a data plan per device” thing. We’re already dropping $60 on two iPhones between my wife and I. I won’t leave 3G on my iPad all the time, but there’s no way we’re paying a total of $120/month just for data on two iPhones and two iPads when my wife eventually gets one. No way.

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    1. What a loser.

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      1. I concur with Erica. Why are you throwing all that money away? Because you have a deep-seated need to feel good about yourself? Do you really believe all that sophomoric Jobsian hype? Get an effin’ life, dude.

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    2. Where would be if not for the US Monday, March 8, 2010

      You are good to go, just as long as you dont need flash and you are fine with running one app at a time. And if you plan on porting your apps from your iphone.. Good luck with that because it will not be full screen.

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    3. Stop living in an Apple only bubble and get a MiFi. Your bank balance will thank you !

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  6. You should have a category, Yes, I’m planning to buy one, but I never buy the first edition of anything Apple because they are usually kinda broken.

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  7. What about Adam for India and the rest of the world?

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  8. Subhash Bose Friday, March 5, 2010

    ipad price to benifit is pure bs .. but so is bmw’s

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    1. I think the price is the primary selling point. A WiFi, app enabled media player and computing device, with the Apple brand, for under $500. That would be like a BMW for $15,000 (which is almost their Mini price).

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      1. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

        Keep in mind that the $799 model cost under $300 to make.

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  9. I’d like one but I a)don’t “need” one and b)have been too broke since buying my wife an iMac for Christmas.

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    1. I’m sorry for your financial situation. With Windows 7, you’d get a) a more secure OS b) two computers for the price of one Apple computer, so your needs would be taken care of.

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      1. And an upgrade in 2 to 3 years… I’m running a 5 year old mac that works as good as my ‘nice’ dell laptop running Win7 at work. You talk about Apple cool-aid. Stop worshiping at the Alter of MS.

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  10. I am getting one or two as soon as we have it this side of the world, hopefully July this year.

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  11. Will pre-order with Amazon even if it means waiting an extra week or more for delivery.

    Our state politicians in their infinite wisdom – following the 19th Century mantra that “NO deficit spending” counts as more important than helping the economy along – raised sales taxes and added food taxes, this week.

    Ordering from Amazon mean I can skip that state sales tax. Let’s see the beancounters count that!

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  12. As a developer I don’t really have a choice. Strike that. I am excited by the iPad. I can’t wait to get my hands on one.

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    1. Agreed

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      1. As a developer, I can understand your getting excited about this thing. Apple afficianados prove above all that they’re liable to throw their money away, with little skepticism, so that’s rich pickings for you.

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    2. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

      Keep in mind you CAN NOT MULTITASK….NO FLASH….Apple lied about making the cpu. It’s a knock off of the Nvidia Tegra. SO essentially what you have is a very large Microsoft Zune. Check out Microsoft’s courier.

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      1. yeah, check out Microsoft’s device-that-is-just-a-concept-video. It will handle all your needs, and feed starving children while curing cancer.

        Whatevs, troll. You and McGrisom should form an iHate Apple group. I’m not getting the first gen iPad, but Apple makes products that forces other companies to innovate to catch up. I don’t see how you can think that’s a bad thing, even if you think the product itself sucks.

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      2. Agree, lack of Flash and multitasking makes it a crippled internet browsing device. It looks great when you are holding it. But you can hardly call it “Magical Internet Experience” unless you agree with Steve Jobs new definition for “Magical Internet Experience”.

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      3. WOW. Do you like MS or what? Funny those who throw crap have a house full of it.

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  13. The poll needs another option: Wait for 3 months and buy the next version

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  14. Paul Calento Friday, March 5, 2010

    Will be interesting to see how pervasive the iPad becomes. Many of us will run out to buy it and probably bring it into our company … which means they’ll be forced to support it. According to a recent Forrester study, almost half of respondent companies indicated they were already supporting personal devices of some type (http://bit.ly/aKSJOn page two of attached link). Probably more interestingly, what will be the enterprise pick-up of the device.

    –Paul Calento (About Me http://bit.ly/amSW5Y)

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    1. If I were CIO, I wouldn’t permit Apple computers on the intranet due to security and manageability concerns. Apple will never “make it” for business. It’s strictly a computer for gullible individuals who buy all the Jobsian hype.

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      1. spoken like someone that has never actually used a mac or had to support it. Macs are just as secure as Windows, and while you may extol the virtues of Windows 7 (hey, I think it’s awesome!) good luck getting any IT department to upgrade to the latest and greatest. Every company I’ve worked in insisted on staying 1 version of MS products behind so the programs would all be on at least SP2.

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      2. @MGriscom, FAIL, you do know plenty of businesses use Macs? Plenty of CEO use Macs. For example the CEO of Nintendo.

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      3. @p-diddy: I have used a Mac, enough to notice how hard it was to use (of course, I’m more used to Windows). My dad uses a Mac and finds it hard to use, as well – even when it isn’t crashing.

        My employer will move to Windows 7 this summer (from Windows XP), which means I can be more productive!

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      4. @Mcriscom, sorry, I don’t buy it. It took me all of 4 or 5 days to get used to OS X and I can count on one hand the number of times my macs have crashed since 2001 when I started using them.

        I’m turning this into a Mac vs. PC debate. I really do love Win7. And I’m not getting the first Gen iPad because it always takes a second go-round for Apple to work out the kinks. But your comments are completely disingenuous and it’s clear you’re just here to bash anything Apple does. Which is fine for trolling the Internet, but it only makes the PC camp look sad and childish.

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      5. Actually, all the childish responses from the Mac fans are much louder. Macs are for kids and people who want daddy (read: Steve Jobs and his Marketing Magic) to take care of them.
        Yes, I do hate Apple, for fooling people out of way too much for their money, and deceptively portraying Microsoft as a boorish, stupid jerk in their “I’m a Mac, I’m a PC” commercials.
        Microsoft delivered an OS that was more secure than Mac OSX starting with Vista. Windows 7 is even further out in front. Apple doesn’t really have to catch up in terms of quality, because a) their small market share appears to the uneducated as if it were security and b) their followers are fanatical. Such devotion is totally encouraged by Jobs, along with hatred of the competition.
        Microsoft is far from perfect. Is perfection even possible? Obviously not. There are many improvements to happen in the years to come, much progress in delivering customer value … and who’s more likely to deliver? Not Apple. It’s easier for them to lie and distort.
        I wish Apple were better, so it could be a worthy competitor of Microsoft. Oh well.

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      6. I know I will never convince you to look at it objectively, but at least have your facts straight. Apple’s market share has grown considerably in the last 7 years in the higher education market, i.e., Universities. Are those the uneducated?

        http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/22/more-evidence-of-apples-massive-marketshare-growth-in-higher-education/

        Its market share has skyrocketed among software developers since Apple switched to OS X due in part to its accessible Unix underpinnings.

        http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9752463-16.html

        It is hilarious you cite Jobs’ hatred of competition as a point in favor of Microsoft. Microsoft were they ones accused by the Department of Justice of antitrust practices (i.e., abuse of their monopoly power in bullying PC manufacturers)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

        and are were forced by the European Union just months ago to decouple their browser from the OS.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case

        Sorry, I understand hating Apple, well, at least why you think they aren’t a good value. But half your reasons are for hating Apple are the same things Microsoft does.

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      7. @p-diddy: Yes, Macs are doing well where it’s very important to have a pretty computer, in the US. (Funny, the white plastic thing is pretty but anti-functional. Why would you want a white border on a self-illuminating screen? Oh, it’s different in the Jobsian way, that’s why :) )

        IMO, it’s a good thing that they have some market share, because Microsoft needs the competition and someone to copy from them occasionally (e.g. that ASLR thing in the new OSX, which was a total ripoff from Microsoft).

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      8. Wow. You are so delusional. Microsoft didn’t invent ASLR buddy, and Linux (2001) and OpenBSD (2005) had it long before Microsoft did.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization#Implementations

        See also http://netsecurity.about.com/od/quicktips/qt/whatisaslr.htm

        But again, why let facts get in the way of your argument? Seriously, keep trying to spread your FUD without citing any sources.

        You’re more guilty than Apple is about all-show-and-no-substance. You just keep saying these things that are flat out wrong, or that MS has done too, and like George Bush, you think that if you keep repeating it, it somehow comes true.

        I’m done. It’s obviously pointless to continue this one-sided debate where I provide sources and facts and you keep making things up. Enjoy your fantasy world where Microsoft poops rainbows and unicorns and Apple kills puppies.

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      9. @p-diddy: you’re sidestepping arguments and making personal insults. Is this all that Apple fans have to offer – childishness?

        Check back with me in 10 years, and we’ll see if Microsoft still has ~90% market share then.

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      10. You said Macs are for the uneducated. I SHOWED that they have a growing marketshare in universities. You had no response to that.

        Further rebutting that Macs for for the uneducated, I SHOWED that they’ve had a growing marketshare amongst software developers. You had no response.

        You said Apple deceives people. I SHOWED how Microsoft has done the same thing. You had no response.

        You said Apple ripped ASLR off Microsoft. I SHOWED that Microsoft didn’t invent ASLR and wasn’t even close to being the first mainstream OS to use it. You had no response.

        I have confronted each of your arguments head on. If anyone has sidestepped here, it is YOU. You have absolutely no facts to support any of your positions and you haven’t disputed any of mine. You’ve ignored every single bit of proof I’ve given that your position is hot air. If I resort to calling you delusional, it’s because it’s like arguing with a lamp post. You continually FAIL to support your claims, yet you still believe them.

        If this is a troll, bravo man. You got me and got me good. But if you actually believe what you’ve written, … hell, I don’t know what to tell you.

        But I’ll be sure to look you up when Microsoft’s market-share has dropped below 90%. Oh wait, that already happened back in September (88%).

        http://www.statowl.com/operating_system_market_share_trend.php

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      11. @p-diddy: Maybe… the reason I didn’t respond was that your arguments don’t hold up, and I took that to be self-evident.

        OK, Macs for the uneducated: anybody who knows a fair amount about IT, can research on the web, and is not in denial or a zealot, can actually surmise that Windows 7 is significantly more secure than Apple OSX. In addition, Apple costs at least twice as much financially. Now, an English major might not know that, but an English major knows that Macs are prettier and better for picking up dates. So, by “education” I mean, knowledge of IT. I don’t care how much someone might “know” about something out of the field of concern here.

        BTW, didn’t you write “I’m done” ? What, changed your mind? Ergo, you are unreliable. But, never mind…

        You write that you showed that Macs are gaining share among software developers. iPhone has been successful in gaining market share, and Apple has been successful there. But, can you demonstrate that among all the software developers worldwide, Apple is gaining a percentage in share? (No, not an absolute number. That doesn’t count, due to population growth and market growth.) Proceed.

        What, has Microsoft deceived people? How? Be specific. I haven’t heard anything. Apple implies that Microsoft computers are full of bugs and crashes, which isn’t true unless a) you do dumb stuff with your computer AND b) you run Windows 98 (circa 1998). That’s just bs, and clever marketing, but bs.

        So, what client OS had ASLR before Microsoft did? Be specific. BTW, Apple is just a shell, not an OS.

        By the way, in addition to your childish insults, you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say Apple “ripped off” anything from Microsoft. Semantics are important, and we’re talking about meaning here. Understand?

        Educate me.

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      12. I am objective here – yes, Windows 7, according to security tests, is more secure than OS X out of the box. I haven’t debated that because I looked up sources and found some that support your argument there. And quite honestly, I love Windows 7 for some tasks over using my Macs. I think Windows 7 is great.

        I also have not debated the price point because you are right – an Apple computer will cost more than an equivalent PC with Windows 7. And I explained why. Apple offers people an experience. They control the hardware and software to ensure that it “just works.” I haven’t debated this either. But OS X also let’s you get to the command line with a meaningful Unix shell, which Windows doesn’t have. And that is a useful feature. If you’re educated.

        However, on just about every other point, you have been dead wrong and clearly didn’t bother to follow the links I gave.

        You write that you showed that Macs are gaining share
        among software developers. iPhone has been successful
        in gaining market share, and Apple has been successful
        there.

        The link I have you was pre-iPhone software development. It was straight up software developers. You’d know that if you actually read it. But here it is again:

        http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9752463-16.html

        By the way, in addition to your childish insults,
        you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say Apple
        “ripped off” anything from Microsoft.

        I quote, from your prior reply:

        –(e.g. that ASLR thing in the new OSX, which was a total ripoff from Microsoft).–

        So, yeah, “ripped off” is EXACTLY what you said. Not much semantic difference here.

        So, what client OS had ASLR before Microsoft did?
        Be specific. BTW, Apple is just a shell, not an OS.

        I already gave you examples, OpenBSD and Linux, both of which are “client” OSes as much as they are “server” OSes, AND I gave you sources.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization#Implementations

        See also http://netsecurity.about.com/od/quicktips/qt/whatisaslr.htm

        And OS X is an operating system. I don’t know how you can say it’s a “shell.” The GUI is a shell, but the operating system is OS X. It is clear you are not in IT and have no idea what an operating system is. If you ARE actually in IT, God help the people you support.

        What, has Microsoft deceived people? How?
        Be specific.

        I already answered this too: Look at the law suits filed against MS in the US and in the EU:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case

        Just give up already. I’ve “educated” you twice now on basically every point you’ve made and provided links, more that once. You lose. Be a man and admit it. Or you can be “childish” and reply. If you do reply, it’s pretty clear what you’ll be.

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      13. Replying because the formatting of my last post got lost and God forbid someone thought me quoting Mgriscom was me speaking. Mgriscom’s words offset by —:

        I am objective here – yes, Windows 7, according to security tests, is more secure than OS X out of the box. I haven’t debated that because I looked up sources and found some that support your argument there. And quite honestly, I love Windows 7 for some tasks over using my Macs. I think Windows 7 is great.

        I also have not debated the price point because you are right – an Apple computer will cost more than an equivalent PC with Windows 7. And I explained why. Apple offers people an experience. They control the hardware and software to ensure that it “just works.” I haven’t debated this either. But OS X also let’s you get to the command line with a meaningful Unix shell, which Windows doesn’t have. And that is a useful feature. If you’re educated.

        However, on just about every other point, you have been dead wrong and clearly didn’t bother to follow the links I gave.

        — You write that you showed that Macs are gaining share
        — among software developers. iPhone has been successful
        — in gaining market share, and Apple has been successful
        — there.

        The link I have you was pre-iPhone software development. It was straight up software developers. You’d know that if you actually read it. But here it is again:

        http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9752463-16.html

        — By the way, in addition to your childish insults,
        — you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say
        — Apple “ripped off” anything from Microsoft.

        I quote, from your prior reply:

        — (e.g. that ASLR thing in the new OSX, which was a total ripoff from Microsoft).—

        So, yeah, “ripped off” is EXACTLY what you said. Not much semantic difference here.

        — So, what client OS had ASLR before Microsoft did?
        — Be specific. BTW, Apple is just a shell, not an OS.

        I already gave you examples, OpenBSD and Linux, both of which are “client” OSes as much as they are “server” OSes, AND I gave you sources.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization#Implementations

        See also http://netsecurity.about.com/od/quicktips/qt/whatisaslr.htm

        And OS X is an operating system. I don’t know how you can say it’s a “shell.” The GUI is a shell, but the operating system is OS X. It is clear you are not in IT and have no idea what an operating system is. If you ARE actually in IT, God help the people you support.

        — What, has Microsoft deceived people? How? Be specific.

        I already answered this too: Look at the law suits filed against MS in the US and in the EU:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case

        Just give up already. I’ve “educated” you twice now on basically every point you’ve made and provided links, more that once. You lose. Be a man and admit it. Or you can be “childish” and reply. If you do reply, it’s pretty clear what you’ll be.

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      14. @p-diddy:
        About Microsoft deceiving people – I read the link, and here’s a quote from it:
        The issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle its flagship Internet Explorer (IE) web browser software with its Microsoft Windows operating system. Bundling them together is alleged to have been responsible for Microsoft’s victory in the browser wars as every Windows user had a copy of Internet Explorer.

        Obviously, requiring Microsoft to ship Windows without a browser is equivalent to requiring Honda to deliver cars to consumers without tires. It’s just stupid.

        What the EU has done, in requiring a “selection screen” at install? Probably, IE is installed anyway because it’s so much more wide-ranging in capabilities than the other browsers, but this is giving consumers the illusion of increased choice when all those choices have already been there for years.

        So, instead of asking me to read War and Peace for the inner meaning, explain: how has Microsoft deceived consumers? No backing out, now, I won’t let you. I am open to learning something new, if you have something to teach me.

        Apple deceives consumers every time it sells Apple computers as representing freedom, and Microsoft as a pathetic jerk offering only lies and delusions. Both ideas are bass-ackwards to reality.

        Apple deceives consumers AND puts them at risk when it implies that Macs don’t have security problems. I quick search of the web shows that this is obviously not the case, and actually, perfect security is impossible.

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      15. You apparently read only as far as you wanted to – it wasn’t War and Peace. The sentences right after the sentence you quoted were:

        It was further alleged that this unfairly restricted the market for competing web browsers (such as Netscape Navigator or Opera) that were slow to download over a modem or had to be purchased at a store. Underlying these disputes were questions over whether Microsoft altered or manipulated its application programming interfaces (APIs) to favor Internet Explorer over third party web browsers, Microsoft’s conduct in forming restrictive licensing agreements with original equipment manufacturer (OEMs), and Microsoft’s intent in its course of conduct.

        You missed all that. So, to restate, Microsoft was accused of:
        1. not giving people a meaningful choice because other browsers were slow to download or had to be purchased
        2. designing Windows to not work with other browsers
        3. bullying OEMs

        Pretty much sums it up.

        And Apple never said they have no viruses, just that they don’t have all the ones Windows has had. Please find me an article or citation that shows Macs have more viruses than Windows does. Not something that says Windows is more secure, something that shows Mac have X viruses and Windows has Y, where X is greater than Y.

        Your turn.

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  15. “iPad is something completely new,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We’re excited for customers to get their hands on this magical and revolutionary product and connect with their apps and content in a more intimate, intuitive and fun way than ever before.” = More overhype from Steve “Snake Oil Slime” Jobs

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  16. Steve Jobs is a master showman. Innovative? No, it’s derivative. Microsoft has shipped OS for touch-screen tablets for many years, and really, the IPad looks like a larger Zune or IPhone.

    For a lot less money, I could get a netbook that’s a lot more capable, and stick a 4G USB device in it for access … Sorry, Apple would prefer that you not know that.

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    1. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

      IT actually is a large zune. The CPU that apple CLAIMED to make is actually made by Samsung and is a knock off of the Nvidia Tegra.

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  17. No way would I let MGriscom manage my corporate Internet. Microsoft is in a downward spiral and today’s IT folks really should be more open to cross-platform technology and innovation. Clearly, people want MacBooks, iPods, iPhones and soon, iPads, and corporate employees should have them if that’s the technology they want. IT departments are supposed to support other departments in corporations, not try to dictate how they work. Griscom sounds like one of those Microsoft-certified IT lemings who only knows the old technology that keeps him employed on perennial tech support duty.

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    1. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

      There are over 10,000+ viruses out for apple. It’s only going to get worse. No flash.. No multitasking. What good is it?

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    2. What universe are you living in, boy? The Universe of Wishful Thinking? People have been predicting the demise of Microsoft for longer than you’ve been alive, and so far, they were all wrong. Do you think you’re different?

      Microsoft is doing great, because it delivers solid value to businesses and individuals, and people generally aren’t stupid so they know the Apple ads are fluff and lies.

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  18. Oh, and how’s that 10-year-old tablet initiative working out for Microsoft, Mr. Griscom? You know the one with the ill-conceived windows laptop interface on tablet computers (outdone only by the gesture and touchscreen interface shoehorned over top of tiny netbook computers). Ballmer gets so confused by this entire interface thing…

    I’ll bet you $50 that Steve “Me Too” Ballmer announces a copycat iPad device within two years (if he every gets that silly looking “Windows Phone 7 Series” crap out the door). It will be a gesture-based, iPad-sized Zune tablet with Xbox portable gaming added. Now that Apple has invented yet another new genre of device and defined a business model, Redmond has to play in the new game or be swamped.

    It’s gonna’ be fun to watch Microsoft’s antics as it tries to catch the next wave. 2010 won’t be like 1984. Ballmer just doesn’t get it, and he’ll soon be gone from the company.

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    1. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

      Actually Apple copied an Unknown company for the ipad. Not to mention they said they made the cpu out of ther new company. Actually, Samsung Made it and its a Knock off of the Nvidia Tegra which essentially makes it a Microsoft zune. Not mention the Microsoft Courier was out before the ipad…at least in video. Not to mention you can multitask and access flash. The first person that says HTML5 like that idiot steve jobs. Punch yourself in the face now…HTML5 is not going to be out till 2022.

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      1. You keep saying this – got documentation for it?

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    2. The iPad is more derivative than innovative. It’s more like a large Kindle, or a large phone that doesn’t make or receive calls. For less money, one can buy a much more capable device (a notepad running Windows 7, with a 4G USB device) so I’d have to say that Mr. Jobs is a brilliant marketer if he can sell more than a dozen of them.

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  19. Where would be if not for the US Sunday, March 7, 2010

    I THINK ANYONE WHO BUYS THIS IS A IDIOT. NO MULTITASKING. NO FLASH. APPS PORTED FROM THE IPHONE WILL NOT BE FULL SCREEN.

    Share
    1. I think people that type in all caps are idiots. QED

      Share
  20. I won’t be getting one even though I use my iPod Touch all the time. Why? Because the iPod Touch fits in my pocket. I can use it one-handed. If I have to carry a device in a bag, then it is going to be a laptop.

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  21. Erica Hudson Monday, March 8, 2010

    I’m sorry if any of you disagree but, I’m more of a Microsoft person. Apple pisses me off, with their windows vs. mac crap.

    Share
    1. I agree, Apple pisses me off. Why can’t they just deliver value to consumers, instead of lying about how bad Microsoft was? (… back with Windows 98. Time warp!)

      Share
      1. And now it comes out – you really just hate Apple. Sorry, MS can and has been just as deceiving. For example, their “I’m a PC” commercials where they continued to use the old price for a Mac after being corrected. And while yes, the Mac ads have gotten long in the tooth and unoriginal (we get it, “PCs have viruses”), they ARE touting benefits of owning a mac.

        I’ve never had a virus on any of my 4 macs. I’ve only had 3 or so on my PCs, but 3 is still greater than none. If it’s a selling point, why do you begrudge them for highlighting it?

        The You Find It, You But It campaign did the same for how flexible PCs were. Macs have very limited options for very limited price points. But you can get a PC at price points that run the entire spectrum of $300 to $3000. The You Find It, You But It campaign highlighted this. Do you begrudge Microsoft for showing its strengths?

        And as for value, a Mac’s value is that yes, it is more expensive, but they control the entire product – hardware and software. This allows them to provide a unified experience that just works. If you want to tinker and do all sorts of customization, yeah, a Mac’s probably not for you. But that’s not what you’re paying for when you buy one.

        Don’t hate Apple because they give people what they want. And you can dispute that it’s what people want, but the domination of the portable music market, the domination of the cell phone market, and the domination of the $1000+ laptop category says otherwise.

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      2. Wow,
        good fight between mgriscom and p-diddy. I like few APPLE products and few Microsoft products. APPLE’s products are superior in hardware, but they charge premium. iPad hardware is great, but seriously what on earth APPLE is thinking when they said no to FLASH and multitasking. I cannot watch embedded videos on CNN, BBC and even on GigaOm. Unless Om wants to make an APP for iPad I cannot watch any FLASH content on GigaOm. And whats up with that mono-tasking ? Put flash and support mutlitasking I will be standing in line to buy.

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      3. My “debate” with Mgriscom on his anti-Apple bias aside, I DO think the iPad has some major issues and I won’t be getting one, at least not the first gen.

        While I don’t really mind the lack of multitasking (it would be nice though), I agree that the flash thing is a ridiculous line-in-the-sand move by Apple. They can argue it all they want, but so many sites use Flash, it is hubris to intentionally not include it and assume that all websites will just fall into line as a result.

        Apple is well known to be focused on user experience, and yet they pursue a path that leads to a TERRIBLE user experience. It is insane to have the user lose out on half the content of a website simply because the hardware manufacturer is stubborn about a very well-adopted technology.

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      4. @p-diddy -

        If you got viruses or trojans on your computers running Microsoft OS’s, I’m thinking that it was due to one of the following factors:
        a) you were running Windows 98
        b) you didn’t keep up to date on patches
        c) you frequent porn and gambling sites, and turn the additional security off on your browser (assuming you were using IE, and it was available)
        d) you installed unsigned software from a skeevy source

        Correct me if I’m wrong.

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      5. @p-diddy:
        (I wanted a separate email for separate points)

        Am I really biased against Apple?

        The Apple iPhone has obviously a lot of appeal, although I think it’s a better game machine than phone. Apple has done well with it, and they’re not lying about how bad Blackberry’s are etc.

        Apple makes very pretty computers. Not functional necessarily (a white border on the screen? ) but pretty.

        People claim that Apple hardware lasts longer. Personally, I have no evidence either way, but I love the fingerprint reader integrated on my Toshiba laptop (running Windows 7, now) that is not an option with Apple hardware at all. (And of course you can’t legally run Apple OS on anything but Apple hardware.)

        Microsoft is obviously not perfect either, but they’re a software company (as opposed to Apple, which is basically a hardware company) and I believe they have the engineering power and precedence to increase the lead they have over Apple in terms of quality, power, flexibility, and yes, security.

        Do I really hate Apple? I’m not sure, but I hate some of the things Apple does:

        a) implying that you can’t trust Microsoft, which puts people at unnecessary risk because they might change the default settings on their computer to disable patching/updating
        b) implying that Apple computers never have security problems, which put people at risk because they become complacent and therefore easy prey for blackhats e.g. through trojans (which has already happened e.g. here
        http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/11/mac_trojan
        or pirated photoshop
        http://www.macworld.com/article/138432/2009/01/piratedphotoshop.html
        )

        c) implying that Macs have no bugs or problems, which is simply impossible nonsense

        I wish Apple just competed on the merits of their own products. Many people like being taken care of. They don’t want to deal with choices (e.g. should I buy a Toshiba or a Dell?) and they want it all taken care of for them – basically the same reason that people have monotheistic faiths.

        That’s not for me. I want choices, and I want what’s best for consumers and business. IMO that’s not Apple, not even close.

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      6. See these – the points you make here – are actual, reasonable statements. I have no problem with what you just said here.

        I think the iPhone is a pretty good phone, but a mediocre game machine. I commend Apple for raising the bar, but they’ve also left some holes that will allow others to surpass the iPhone, e.g., the camera could be better, AT&T could allow tethering, and others. But to each his own.

        I don’t really get your point about the whit border on the screen. I don’t think black is any better, but this is a matter of personal preference. This is honestly the first I’ve ever thought about it or heard anyone mention it.

        About Apple hardware lasting longer – well, I’ve had both good and bad experiences. My original iBook from 2001 was dud. I had to send it in 3 times for motherboard issues. The other macs I’ve had though have been fine. It’s not necessarily – to me at least – that the hardware lasts longer, but that the operating system doesn’t expect as much over time. For example, my original iBook ran OS 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 successively faster, wehreas my laptops would run Win 98, Windows XP, and XP SP2 progressively slower, which made the Windows laptop appear to not last as long. That said, taking my MacBook from 10.3 to 10.4 DID slow it down.

        And I really like the fingerprint reader on my ThinkPad. I bet OS X would recognize it if it were USB, but you are correct – it’s not something Apple has or will include on it’s laptops. If that’s the choice you’re looking for, you’re correct, Apple’s not the computer for you.

        As for the other points, you have to lay some of the blame at Microsoft’s feet for their reputation for security holes. For a long time, they sold their operating system, and forced
        PC manufacturers to sell only it, and so people came to rely on them. But their software was full of holes (Win 95, Win 98, Me, and XP before the Service Packs). They earned the reputation of insecure software well before Apple started mocking them for it.

        But MS has improved and are working hard to repair their reputation. And like any good business, Apple’s going to capitalize on Microsoft’s mistakes. Apple’s not misleading anyone as much as they are belaboring old points that have been addressed. And you’re right – Apple’s not perfect. Recent hacking contests have shown a Mac can be hacked faster than a PC when the hacker has had time to prepare. But who’s going to point out their own flaws in a commercial?

        Anyway, I don’t mind that you choose Microsoft. I do too for certain things – for example, I think OneNote is one of the best products on the market. What I called you out on was the bashing of Apple when you didn’t have facts to back up your points.

        Share
  22. The iPad is a toaster oven

    Think of how you use your toaster oven.
    It’s small portable in comparison to a full sized oven so it’s convenient. It uses less energy than a full sized oven. For those who do not entertain a large group or are not that into cooking it’s more than adequate. Even those that use a full size oven find toaster ovens to be a great supplemental tool.
    It will not cook a turkey.

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    1. I like that analogy. It will not cook a turkey, :)

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    2. the iPad is a turkey that’s gonna get cooked by the Windows, Android slates

      Share
  23. I work with Fortune 500 companies every day on their current mobility issues and future mobility plans. The early adopters are definitely anticipating and actively planning for the arrival of iPads among their employees and within their IT infrastructure.

    More here http://cpsatfiberlink.com/expertise/2010/02/24/the-ipad-coming-to-an-enterprise-near-you/

    Share
  24. Microsoft’s security issues are a result of Microsoft’s choice (a good one, IMO) of making computers useful for people first, and then making them secure as security became an issue. If they had done the opposite, I don’t believe the internet would be as evolved as it is today. IMO the best example of Microsoft putting end-user value first is the “I Love You” worm way back in year 2000.

    Microsoft must improve their OS’s security or die. I believe they’ve done quite well with Vista, and better with Windows 7, but there is more work to be done of course and Microsoft devotes huge resources towards protecting customers. The biggest problem now is users doing dumb things and people – and there are many of them – HATE Microsoft for somewhat understandable reasons of economic self-interest. The latter seem to find ways to defeat end users’ best security interests. For example, my company is very cheap when it comes to tools and I have to download free software – unsigned – constantly. Unsigned software is much more likely IMO to have trojans, and if I give admin rights to a trojan, even Microsoft’s many security tools might not be able to help me. It’s really not that expensive to get a certificate for your entity.

    @p-diddy: Windows 7 has just started big returns for Microsoft. We’re coming out of a deep recession, so it’s hard to tell, but I think it will do quite well.

    Given that Apple really doesn’t, won’t or can’t to enterprise, plus their lack of choices is frankly hostile to business, I don’t see them doing at all well in the enterprise during my lifetime. Microsoft OTOH is focused there and delivers great value.

    So, to be specific, January 1st 2010: where do you think Apple will be in worldwide market share of fully-capable client computers (i.e. not phones, not ipads)? 10%? 20%?

    I really doubt that Apple will ever do better than 20% in any market, because unlike Microsoft, any success they have is self-limiting and they don’t do enterprise/business. (To do enterprise well, Apple would have to imitate Microsoft in many respects where Microsoft has paved the way, and then they wouldn’t be the arrogant, secretive, controlling Apple Inc. anymore.)

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    1. Sorry, I meant January 1st 2020. If I didn’t have to give away personal information to do it, I would bet money that Apple is less than 20% market share on that date.

      I will check, too P)

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  25. @p-diddy: Microsoft never deceives customers (to my knowledge) because that would be counterproductive and costly for the company in the long run. Microsoft needs customers to trust it to an extent.

    Apple deceives customers because some of them lap it up. Microsoft is a favorite villain of the media, and of all the people and other entities whose financial self-interest lies in Microsoft’s failure.

    The licensing thing you bring up is between Microsoft and the OEMS, NOT consumers. I hear also that it’s common practice, and I believe it.

    On browsers: so … explain to me what Microsoft did wrong here?

    Suppose you make cars. Call them Diddymobiles. This year, for the first time, Diddymobiles have an air condition option! There are other manufacturers of 12V air conditioners as well that can work with Diddymobiles, too.

    The Diddymobile A/C is somewhat awkward to use, as are te ones from the other manufacturers. So, you decide to improve the customer experience and make the A/C fit better in the car. At this point, do you:
    a) Decide no, it’s not right to improve customer experience in this case because then your A/C would work better than the other manufacturers’
    b) Decide yes, but only go forward with the improved A/C if you check with the other manufacturer’s first. This means long meetings, many of them, and might delay the project for a long time
    c) Decide yes, improve customer experience and not worry about the other manufacturers. You’re not in business to keep those guys in business.

    Microsoft chose c) when it improved customer experience. Is that wrong? NO. However, the way you’ve internalized this story, Microsoft is the villain. Why?

    About the count of viruses in Macs vs. all Microsoft OS’s: of course the count is greater for the Microsoft products, because Microsoft has long had very dominant market share. Blackhats know where the greater financial return is, and they’re doing it for the money. People who don’t keep up to date, or who do stupid stuff, are sometimes victimized.

    For example, remember Conficker? Conficker would have been impossible if everybody had installed the patch from Microsoft when Microsoft pushed it out. Conficker was reverse-engineered from the Microsoft patch!

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    1. Using your car example, what Microsoft did was design the car to break down and stop working if a customer tried installing someone else’s AC. Not a vital part of the car, the AC. THAT’s deceiving to customers.

      As for bullying OEMs, Microsoft was basically saying “we’ll put you out of business by giving your competitors advantages if you don’t play our game.” THAT’s deceptive and illegal. Lynching in the 1960s was common practice and, today, in some parts of the world, cutting off people’s hands for stealing is common practice. That doesn’t make either of them right.

      Regarding viruses, you’ve basically accepted my (and Apple’s) point. Windows has more viruses than Macs do. That’s what Apple’s been saying all along. They’ve never said you won’t get a virus, they’ve just said their computers don’t have all the virus problems Windows does. Which you’ve just admitted. You can blame the customers for not keeping up to date, but it’s still Microsoft’s problem.

      It’s ironic you say Apple’s customers lap up Apple propaganda when you’ve clearly drunk the Microsoft Kool-Aid. Why are we even continuing this? I’ll never stop being objective and relying on facts and you’ll never stop waving the Microsoft flag, no matter how much proof I dump on you that they are no better than Apple.

      Share
  26. I am an Apple devout fan and I love all of their products. I will be waiting to purchase the IPad until they have their price reduction. I don’t want to pay top dollar for something I know will be on sale a month later. They even hinted to it.

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  27. @p-diddy – what, Microsoft designed their OS to break in case a competing browser (e.g. Netscape) was installed and used? I don’t believe it. However, if you can cite a well-documented scenario, with OS version, browsers and browser versions, and proof of Microsoft’s intent, I might believe you (depending on the quality of the information). If not, it’s just wishful thinking on your part. It’s fun to have a villain, isn’t it?

    What, in Microsoft’s dealing with OEMs, substantiates what you’re suggesting? Is it on the lines of “well, if you don’t stock our product in your store, someone else will, and that someone else will therefore have an advantage for people seeking our product” ? If yes, that doesn’t meet the bar.

    Don’t just give links, give explanations to demonstrate that you have a clear understanding of the issues … because I suspect you don’t. Links are good for specific examples to back up your analysis.

    Apple hasn’t been saying that Microsoft has more viruses than Macs (which is a consequence of Microsoft’s dominant market share), Apple has been saying that Microsoft OSs are unusable due to viruses etc., and that their computers have no problems at all. bullshit. It’s like Toyota selling cars by insisting that Honda’s are nearly impossible to drive. Also, Apple has been very cleverly making Microsoft out to be a deceptive jerk who always gets shown up (to the tune of nursery music). That doesn’t help anybody, but it sure does increase unfounded distrust of Microsoft, which probably enables the spread of malware.

    As far as the “Microsoft Kool-Aid” I disagree. There is a well-known Steve Jobs reality distortion field, but really, I’m content to note that Microsoft has shortcomings. Obviously, perfection doesn’t exist, especially in a world as complex as software.

    IMO you haven’t proved anything. But, here’s your chance: I am listening, and I am ready to learn.

    Here’s one way of looking at it: in January 2020, will Apple have more than 20% market share? If so, why, given the reasons I’ve already given that they won’t? Show me where I’m wrong.

    Why do I enjoy the debate? Some of Apple’s behavior is really reprehensible and it hurts people, so to poke holes in the arguments of people affected by Jobs’ reality distortion field is fun. I am annoyed also that Microsoft gets an unfairly negative rep, mostly fed by people who really don’t understand software. The media piles on, because they’re selling entertainment (OK, “info” -tainment).

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    1. Rather than showing you (again) how evil Microsoft was (because let’s be real, you’ll never believe it), I’ll let you read the Court’s findings of fact in the lawsuit against Microsoft.

      http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

      I’m warning you, it’s long. I wanted to give you a heads up since, based on your ignoring of the copious stories and articles I’ve provided to support my argument, reading more than two sentences is beyond your attention span. But this is what a Federal Judge said were the FACTS after hearing testimony from Bill Gates himself and dozens of others at Microsoft, Netscape, Intel etc and being presented with internal Microsoft documents. This is not some blogger or analyst. This is a judge’s statement of FACT. They abused their monopoly power and intentionally made programs that relied on their version of Java – a standard that’s supposed to be portable! – incompatible on other platforms.

      You simply can not dispute this. You can’t.

      But, really, this time, I’m done. I’ve said what I can and will. You say you’re open and willing to be “educated” but you aren’t. You’re a lost cause. I could have Bill Gates and Steve Balmer show up at your house and say “Mgriscom, everything p-diddy says is true. 100%. On our honor,” and you STILL wouldn’t believe it.

      You hate Apple. We get it. But “it’s fun to have a villain,” right? And what do you care? Apple’s market share is so tiny, who cares if they are “fooling” only a handful of people.

      Whatever. I’m done wasting my time and my breath on you. Enjoy keeping your head in the sand and cuddling each night with your Windows 7 box software box.

      Share
  28. @p-diddy: unfortunately, judges make bad decisions all the time. How about that Supreme Court ruling that corporations can donate all the money they want to support political candidates? How about court rulings that the first four words of the one sentence of the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, don’t count or mean anything? (Please look that one up; your life might depend on it.) @# stupid.

    How about this for a stupid court decision? (from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_Laws#Early_attempts_to_break_Jim_Crow) “The Civil Rights Act of 1875, introduced by Charles Sumner and Benjamin F. Butler, stipulated a guarantee that everyone, regardless of race, color, or previous condition of servitude, was entitled to the same treatment in public accommodations, such as inns, public transportation, theaters, and other places of recreation. This Act had little impact. A 19th c. Supreme Court decision ruled that the act was unconstitutional in some respects, saying Congress was not afforded control over private persons or corporations. “

    Anyway, I’ve demonstrated that courts make bad decisions. Those are just a few examples, but it happens all the time.

    OK, I’m reading. I read “Microsoft enjoys monopoly power” because of natural consequences of Microsoft’s dominant market share that are beyond the control of Microsoft. The court notes that Microsoft could raise prices well above what it charged at the time, but DID NOT (see sections III, 33 and 34). Thank you, p-diddy, for making me read this; I always thought that Microsoft wasn’t a monopoly, now I’m certain that there were and are not.

    In section B 1, 36-44, I read that Microsoft works positively with ISVs to increase end-user value and ensures backward compatibility. The court focuses on some “barrier to entry” downsides to this which are market consequences beyond Microsoft’s control, given that it wishes to be successful in delivering customer value.

    In 2.45.B I read, “The inability of Apple to compete effectively with Windows provides another example of the applications barrier to entry in operation. ” No fault of Microsoft here, and what the court didn’t note (or didn’t know) was that Apple is its own worst enemy here by being fairly hostile to business (through extreme secrecy, control, poor support of backward-compatibility, and very high pricing) in its drive to serve the religiously-faithful consumer.

    I read “… prevents the Mac OS from hindering Microsoft’s ability to control price… ” But wait, remember, Microsoft’s ability to control price is purely theoretical. There are no examples, even here in the court judgment.

    I read “More daunting is the fact that Microsoft continually adds APIs to Windows…” Darn it, Microsoft, why don’t you just stand still and stop improving the end-user experience for a minute?

    In section 2.D.57 (the numbering is confusing) I read that Microsoft does not ever to the date of the document charge subscription fees. Good for them!

    In section E that follows, I read that Microsoft takes reasonable measures to combat piracy and does not let piracy lower pricing.

    I read “The software industry in general is characterized by dynamic, vigorous competition.” Yes, indeed!!

    In section 66, I read that Microsoft places restrictions on what software OEMs can install with windows. That’s entirely understandable. From my own experience, I’ve seen my wife’s Vista computer suffer in performance and user experience because she installed all sorts of 3rd-party software which compete with Vista for certain scenarios, e.g. search from Google. Certainly, Google has an incentive to make Windows look bad, and I believe that they succeeded, if someone were to install their software to compete with the Microsoft-designed UX. Performance was clearly suffering, and her computer did weird things that I’ve never seen on any other machine. Now, think about Microsoft’s perspective here: it wants end-users to have a good experience, so therefore it does NOT want Google search pre-installed for example. Analogy: back to p-diddy-mobiles and air conditioners: suppose I made air conditioners and I took you to court because I wanted your dealers to sell p-diddy-mobiles with my air conditions in addition to the ones that are integrated in the cars. How would you respond?

    OK, moving on to sections 79-89: It’s p-diddy-mobiles and air conditioners all over again. Microsoft does not want Netscape to screw up the Microsoft UX (and potentially introduce all sorts of bugs), but is ready to work with Netscape if there is a symbiotic relationship with Netscape. Remember, software is very complex, perfection is impossible, and as a software engineer myself, I know that managing complexity is paramount. Microsoft is just trying to manage complexity! Think about the p-diddy-mobiles and air conditioners, and you’ll see what I mean.

    Sections 90-92: APIs are complex and evolving, and “sharing them” is not free. In any case, some of them are proprietary. Suppose, in my quest to sell air conditioners that integrate with your p-diddy-mobiles, I asked for highly detailed specs on how your engine works, so my air conditioners could tap into their power? You wouldn’t just give them up for free, would you? Nor did Microsoft.

    Sections 94-103, on Intel’s relationship with Microsoft: same thing again. Remember, software gets extremely complex, and one must manage that complexity. There’s a lot of loaded language here to prejudice the reader against Microsoft – can you see that?

    Apple, RealNetworks, same thing: I see Microsoft protecting the value of its own product (Windows) and behaving like a corporation i.e. seeking value for its shreholders.

    The thing with IBM looks more complex, but given that IBM’s behavior was openly hostile to Microsoft, it’s understandable that Microsoft didn’t want to give up proprietary information or even work with IBM.

    Microsoft giving IE away for “free.” back to p-diddy-mobiles: when you sell your cars, p-diddy, do you charge seperately for steering wheels? Or, are the steering wheels “free?”

    “Binding IE to Windows” Are your steering wheels “bound to” p-diddy-mobiles? Suppose independent vendors also sold steering wheels, and they insisted that you give every advantage to those vendors by a) standardizing an interface b) testing the publishing that interface, and c) putting innovation on hold so that interface didn’t change? Would you do a), b) and c)? Of course you wouldn’t. Well, neither did Microsoft.

    Section 175: “No technical reason can explain Microsoft’s refusal to license Windows 95 without Internet Explorer 1.0 and 2.0. ” Right, and no technical reason prevents you from shipping p-diddy-mobiles without steering wheels or air conditioners. So, are you going to do it? of course not! Neither did Microsoft.

    OK, I’m done reading. I’ve had enough, because if judge Jackson is going to open with his stronger points, this is no better than a show trial with a pre-determined outcome.

    Thank you, p-diddy, for having me read this!! Now I know that anybody who thinks Microsoft is villainous is full. of. shit.

    Remember: January 1st, 2020. What will Apple’s market share be of fully-capable, general purpose computers? Less than 20%. If I’m wrong, I will owe you an apology.

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    1. Not taking p-diddy’s or your side here, but it looks like you said your wife’s computer suffered because she installed Google Search on her computer. And that Microsoft understandably doesn’t want software that isn’t theirs on the computer competing for resources and messing up Microsoft’s UX.

      Isn’t that what you’ve been complaining about with Apple? That people have to have Macs the Jobsian way and only the Jobsian way and that you dislike how Apple forces you to do things their way?

      If Microsoft stands for freedom, shouldn’t your wife be allowed to install anything she wanted? And if Windows is as good as you claim, shouldn’t it be able to stop bad programs from competing for resources and introducing bugs?

      Just sayin,’ you’re contradicting yourself.

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      1. Interesting point. Actually, I’m not sure what exactly caused problems with my wife’s computer (running Vista) but I’m fairly sure it is related to all of the apps she installed, including all sorts of stuff from Google that IMO is unnecessary.

        On an Apple, couldn’t you do the same thing, and install all sorts of apps? True, there are fewer of them available, but there are enough, and I’m thinking that would cause problems also with OSX. OTOH, if Apple restricts how messages can be intercepted and handled by 3rd parties, and doesn’t allow them to kick off GUI events outside of the app, then that restrictiveness would annoy end-users and make the Apple UX more stable.

        I think you misunderstand me about Apple. I dislike that Apple gives you very few choices for hardware, and the laptop (or desktop) itself must be the overpriced Apple hardware (not counting hackintoshes).

        So yes, if you put Apple and Microsoft side by side, Microsoft gives you many more choices, especially for hardware, and for a lot less money. Actually the new computer (not the one of the Google weirdness) I built for her in January cost just $1100 in hardware, and was faster than any Mac on the market at the time. (Yes, I checked, and that doesn’t even count that I used RAID 0/striping and that’s a huge premium cost for an Apple).

        Of course, my wife can install anything she wants. And, a lot of it works great for her. But, I wonder about (ahem) “do no evil” Google. They have a financial interest in any failure they can induce in Microsoft’s OS, any way they can make Microsoft look bad. To me, Google desktop search isn’t just unnecessary, it’s a performance hog and a UX conflict. No, Windows does not stop it from using 50% CPU at times, nor should it.

        So no, there is no contradiction.

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      2. eh, I gotta side with p-diddy on this one – you appear blind to anything MS does and think everyone’s out to get them. I mean, according to you, you have all sorts of freedom. But you shouldn’t exercise any of it because it will interfere with Microsoft’s UX and that’s bad for the user. That’s like saying here’s a car which you can add all sorts of after market components. Go ahead! Oh, that one? No, that one will make it go slower, you shouldn’t install it. And that one will cause it to make weird noises. And that other one has problems at red lights. But look at all the choices you have!

        And you don’t trust companies that have a financial incentive to hurt MS, but when p-diddy said MS had hurt other companies, you said it was in their best interest to keep others out because why should Microsoft help other companies.

        Yeah, sorry man. That’s kinda the definition of a contradiction.

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      3. Oh, and hey, I’m not looking to debate you on this or go back and forth – you and p-diddy have your fight. I want no part of that back and forth.

        Y’all’re doing a fine job embarrassing yourselves without my help.

        Carry on.

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      4. @Steve Dave:
        Was this a setup? You want to have your swipe at me and then recuse yourself?
        I don’t necessarily not trust companies that have a financial incentive to try to help Microsoft fail, because that would mean I don’t trust Honda just because they compete against Toyota. That’s just stupid. You’re putting words in my mouth, again. What a great way to debate…
        Steve Dave, if I “appear blind” to something MS does, to what specifically am I blind? Tell me, specifically: what is it that MS does that qualifies them as “evil” ? Do you even know? … is that why you recuse yourself at this convenient time? I wonder.
        And yes, people use all sorts of after-market components with their cars. I have.
        Steve Dave, to insult me, put words in my mouth, then call my a liar, and then recuse yourself, sure looks like cowardice to me. You have a chance to redeem yourself with some actual information, though: please see above.

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      5. hahaha – like I need to “redeem” myself to you. Whatevs MG. You make me laugh.

        But speaking of putting words in people’s mouth, I didn’t call you a liar. I said you contradicted yourself. There’s a big difference. Reading your posts you talk about understanding semantics, but I’m guessing you could brush up on your reading comprehension some yourself.

        You throw the word cowardice around a lot. Buddy, I fought in Iraq. Cowardice ain’t in my dictionary. Can you say the same?

        Yeah, didn’t think so.

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      6. Steve, while I don’t agree with the war itself, thank you for serving. I respect anyone that puts those fatigues on and carries that burden.

        Back to the matter at hand, I wouldn’t waste your breath on Mgriscom. As I painfully learned, he’s got a response for anything, no matter how deluded it is. He wouldn’t believe you if you told him the sky was blue and grass was green. Just leave him here cuddling his Windows 7 box and Bill Gates plushie.

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  29. @Steve Dave: So, you fought in Iraq. It’s irrelevant. And no, I didn’t fight in any unnecessary wars of imperialism sold with lies generated by Karl Rove, Cheney and company, that make the current recession significantly worse. It does remind me of how Apple sells computers, though.

    I’m wondering if you and p-diddy are actually the same person.
    Anyway, back to the point: can you give me actual, reliably documented facts that demonstrate that Microsoft is evil? I’m willing to learn, if you’re willing to teach me something I can believe. I am a skeptic, and I have the courage to learn.
    Looking forward to your response …

    Share
    1. heheheheh. There you go making me laugh again. Nope, not the same person. I’m not inclined to go through the rigmarole and back and forth with you like he did. Don’t have the time, and don’t care. I just found this page because I was thinkin’ of buyin’ an iPad and thought I’d chime in. Real sorry I did. Well, real sorry for me. Not sorry to you.

      Have a nice life MG.

      Share
      1. OK, well, the truth is out. People who loathe Microsoft do it for a) fun b) profit, or c) pure misinformation for which there’s no substance.
        It’s clear that it’s somewhat inevitable for some software company to become dominant. If not Microsoft, it would be someone else, and then there would be another company for you guys to loathe.
        I repeat: there is no substance to hatred of Microsoft, other than they are a great, big target. I have asked many times for people to demonstrate to me that there is something – anything – that Microsoft the company actually did that was unethical, underhanded, and against consumers’ best interest, that would justify such loathing. You all have come up dry. There’s nothing there, obviously.
        Now that I’ve released you all from irrational hatred of Microsoft, you’re free to choose the best value in IT, whether it involves a Microsoft product or not.
        You can thank me later. Happy computing!

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      2. Congrats MGriscom, you’ve managed to get me to post again after I promised myself I wouldn’t. Bravo.

        You’ve missed the entire point of our argument. I never said I loathed Microsoft. Far from it and I even complimented them on some of their software.

        This whole thing started with you basically saying (not putting words in your mouth) you loathed Apple. All my replies were about how Apple is no worse than Microsoft. The only reason you’ve given for hating Apple is that you think their hardware costs too much and you don’t like their commercials. Let’s turn this around.

        For all your hate for Apple, please quote – not paraphrase like you’ve been doing – QUOTE statements Apple has made that are indisputably untrue. If you can’t provide the Apple person that said it and the date, I hope you’ll see you’re loathing of Apple isn’t based on facts. For example, you’ve said Apple said OS X didn’t have viruses. That’s not true – they never said “OS X doesn’t have viruses.” They’ve said they don’t have all the viruses that Windows does, which you admitted was an accurate statement. So please quote me the misleading things Apple has said that has deceived people. And I’m not talking about the fact Apple’s computers are expensive. You seem to cheer businesses for being smart, well Apple is selling computers at a price the market is bearing. That’s smart selling.

        I know Apple’s not perfect, but to reiterate, they are no worse than Microsoft (who you seem to carry on your shoulders as the champion of the people).

        As for value, I think my Macs provide a lot of value. Most of them have been useful longer than the Windows-based computers I have and Apple’s operating system gets out of my way and lets me work, but also lets me tinker when I want to. Windows 7 is great, but OS X has been giving me what I want since 2001.

        My time is money, and my Macs let me save time, thereby saving me money. Maybe this isn’t a metric you subscribe to. That’s fine for you. But Macs are a great value for me, and that isn’t something you can dispute because it’s based on my opinion and my valuation of my time.

        So, it’s time for YOU to provide proof. QUOTE Apple’s deceptive statements. Not paraphrase. I want who said it and exactly what they said, with links so we can’t dispute your proof. Anything short of this is proof that you are as baselessly anti-Apple as you accuse people of being baselessly anti-Microsoft.

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      3. @p-diddy: Apple is brilliant at marketing, no question.
        No, Microsoft is not “champion of the people” but they benefit consumers by always improving their products, at very reasonable prices for the value gained.

        But, Microsoft does not lie to people. Remember the “Laptop Hunters” ads? They’re basically true: Apple laptops are about twice the price for like value. The exact numbers aren’t important, but the price difference is very significant.

        Then, there’s Apple. AFAIK they do not lie about the iPhones, they just sell them in terms of what value they can offer consumers – I think that’s just fine and have no problem with that, nor should anybody IMO because it’s about communication, giving information to consumers that they could use or not.
        I just am looking at the Apple.com site: “iPad, A magical and revolutionary product at an unbelievable price…” Barf. Magical?? ha. Revolutionary? No, it’s derivative from Microsoft (remember the MS Table?) and other products, including many of Apple’s own. Unbelievable price? Yes, for what it does, it’s ridiculously overpriced. I can get a netbook that is more powerful, versatile, and secure for about half the price. Now, that’s just barf-worthy, and I’m sure you’d like more specifics:

        Click on the “Mac” tab. “Mac OS X Snow Leopard, The world’s most advanced OS” ?? First of all, it’s a shell over unix, not an OS. Unix is an OS. Second of all, “most advanced?” why then is Mac such a flop in business? Why is Windows 7 more secure and more versatile? … OK, “Watch the new TV ads” …

        Funny! The ads are brilliantly done, and brilliantly mendacious. Karl Rove couldn’t do better himself. “Trust me?” is totally putting words into Microsoft’s mouth. “Windows 7 is not going to have any of the problems…” Microsoft never communicated that to my knowledge, nor does it behave that way. Support for Windows 7 is best of breed.

        The whole series of “Hello I’m a Mac …” ads present Microsoft as arrogant, lying to consumers, unusable, and hard-selling in the most obnoxious way. There’s just no truth to that. If Apple did the same thing to, say, RIM, they’d never get away with it.

        The worst part of Apple’s lies: they often (but not always, not anymore, I noticed, just most of the time) present their computers as free of bugs and security problems. Both are empirically false, although Apple does have the advantage of small market share, which tends to make them appear more secure than they really are. These lies put consumers at risk! Just so Apple can sell more computers, they make their own customers complacent to an extreme degree, although Apple malware is already out there – and the really scary stuff is the stuff we don’t know about yet. But, does Apple care if their customers get their credit card numbers stolen? No, not if they can sell more computers.

        Apple encourages Microsoft users to not trust Microsoft, as is obvious from the above ad. Well, remember the Conficker worm? The only reason that spread at all was because people didn’t get the patches. Yep: Conficker was the result of reverse-engineering a patch that Microsoft sent out, for a vulnerability that Microsoft itself discovered.

        So, I believe I’ve established that in order to sell it’s hardware, Apple hurts consumers. Can you, p-diddy, or you, the very courageous Steve Dave, show me specifically what Microsoft has done to hurt consumers?

        Honestly, I do not work for Microsoft. I am open to learning new things. If you have a strong point to answer my query, please educate me.

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      4. Mgriscom, none of the things you cited are lies. They’re not. They’re opinions of Apple’s own products.

        Microsoft is not “champion of the people” but they benefit consumers by always improving their products, at very reasonable prices for the value gained.

        Apple has done the same. Apple continually improves its products, at a price I personally find reasonable. You can disagree, but that’s an opinion, not a fact.

        But, Microsoft does not lie to people. Remember the “Laptop Hunters” ads? They’re basically true: Apple laptops are about twice the price for like value. The exact numbers aren’t important,

        Actually, the exact numbers are important. And that’s actually a case where initially Microsoft refused to stop running an ad that had an old, more expensive, price in its ad. That’s actually a great example of how Microsoft misled consumers – they showed a mac at a price that wasn’t the right price. But having some random shopper say “to me macs are more about style than substance” is exactly what you are complaining about with Apple. That’s his “opinion” that Microsoft is passing off as a “fact” (under your definition of fact – if it’s said in a commercial, the company MUST be passing it off as a fact).

        “iPad, A magical and revolutionary product at an unbelievable price…” Barf. Magical?? ha. Revolutionary? No, it’s derivative from Microsoft (remember the MS Table?)

        Again, that’s opinion. I think the iPad is a revolutionary product. And Apple’s got an R&D department that is developing it’s own products. If its derivative of anything its derivative of the iPhone. Just because something may look like MS did, doesn’t mean Apple copied them. And it’s funny you mention MS’s $10,000 table and complain about Apple’s pricing in the same sentence. Where’s Microsoft’s table that fits in your hand for $500? Nowhere? It doesn’t exist? Exactly.

        I can get a netbook that is more powerful, versatile, and secure for about half the price.

        Please list all the viruses and exploits known for the iPad. None? Yeah, you’re just blowing smoke about a netbook being more secure since the iPad’s not even out yet. You have no idea how secure the iPad is.

        Click on the “Mac” tab. “Mac OS X Snow Leopard, The world’s most advanced OS” ?? First of all, it’s a shell over unix, not an OS. Unix is an OS.

        OS X is not the GUI shell. You keep making this mistake. It’s the whole operating system. All of it including the GUI, command line interface and the kernel. All of it.

        As for advanced, I think it’s pretty advanced. I don’t know what metric you’re using, but I think its command line interface is significantly more advanced than MS’s CMD.exe, so again, it’s a matter of opinion.

        Second of all, “most advanced?” why then is Mac such a flop in business? Why is Windows 7 more secure and more versatile?

        Apple’s not a flop. They have doubled their marketshare in the last few years. Name an industry where 200% growth is a flop. And it’s your opinion Windows 7 is more versatile. I think OS X is. Again, you’re stating opinions, not facts.

        The whole series of “Hello I’m a Mac …” ads present Microsoft as arrogant, lying to consumers, unusable, and hard-selling in the most obnoxious way.

        Again, you haven’t showed how they lie. Of course they paint their competitors in a bad light. Every company does that. Coke and Pepsi, McDonald’s and Burger King, and on and on. Everything you say here is your opinion. No facts.

        The worst part of Apple’s lies: they often (but not always, not anymore, I noticed, just most of the time) present their computers as free of bugs and security problems. Both are empirically false, … But, does Apple care if their customers get their credit card numbers stolen? No, not if they can sell more computers.

        Like I said, I’ve never had a virus with my Mac. Seems like they aren’t lying as far as my experience goes. And where did the credit card numbers thing come from. Now you’re just being crazy and making stuff up.

        Well, remember the Conficker worm? The only reason that spread at all was because people didn’t get the patches. Yep: Conficker was the result of reverse-engineering a patch that Microsoft sent out, for a vulnerability that Microsoft itself discovered.

        So now you’re attributing people’s laziness or lack of knowledge about how to update Microsoft’s products to Apple’s campaign? Your argument, my good man, has jumped the shark. Please show me one source that correlates the two. Please, I beg you, find one person that said “I don’t trust Microsoft because of Apple, so I won’t install a patch Microsoft sent out.”

        So, I believe I’ve established that in order to sell it’s hardware, Apple hurts consumers. Can you, p-diddy, or you, the very courageous Steve Dave, show me specifically what Microsoft has done to hurt consumers?

        Again, this isn’t about how Microsoft hurts consumers. We’ve been down that road. I want you to show me how, based on FACTS, not your opinions, Apple has deceived and hurt consumers. You still haven’t proven anything other than you don’t like Apple’s campaign – not even that anyone has been misled – just that you don’t like it.

        You still haven’t given any FACTS.

        still waiting,
        –p-diddy

        Honestly, I do not work for Microsoft. I am open to learning new things. If you have a strong point to answer my query, please educate me.

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      5. ignore the pasting error on my post – I pasted your answer in so I could quote it. But I don’t think you work for Microsoft. I just think you vehemently hate Apple to the point of blindness. And when asked for an explanation, you have no facts to back it up.

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  30. @p-diddy: OK, point taken. Here’s a quote from you, from this thread:
    “Microsoft were they ones accused by the Department of Justice of antitrust practices (i.e., abuse of their monopoly power in bullying PC manufacturers)”

    What monopoly power? Do you have any evidence for this, given that the DOJ was (as far as I could see) using loaded language to make a slanted explanation of some actual events towards a predetermined conclusion? Please, be substantive and specific.

    What abuse? Ditto. Please, be substantive and specific.

    I didn’t say the Mac was a flop in general. I said it was a flop in business. I know there are some Macs in businesses – I’m seen a few – but I don’t see any good reason for them.

    As far as Microsoft’s cmd.exe, I agree. Cmd.exe is not very powerful OOB. Have you ever heard of Powershell? It’s very powerful, and unlike any Unix shell I’ve heard of, it’s object-oriented. It ships as part of Windows 7. It also supports and integrates with .Net, which implements some of the same academic ideas that were rolled into Java but is more modern and better in many ways. (BTW, I work with Java every day, and I also know .Net, so I’m constantly confronted with Java’s shortcomings.)

    Apple plays to a zealous niche market, and they sell their expensive hardware (yes, twice the price of non-Apple hardware, for similar hardware specs) very well. But, their very success, they way they’ve achieved it, depends on their being a niche. I think they’ve marketed themselves into a corner.

    But, as I wrote earlier, let’s watch what Apple’s market share is on 1/1/2020. I project it will be less than 20%.

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    1. Mgriscom, we’re not still debating the MS-is-bad thing. That’s done with. You’ll never accept the mountains of evidence that Microsoft abused it’s monopoly power or the findings of court in both the US and Europe. I’m not going to try and convince you otherwise because it’s clearly pointless.

      I didn’t say the Mac was a flop in general. I said it was a flop in business. I know there are some Macs in businesses – I’m seen a few – but I don’t see any good reason for them.

      You need to be clearer then. Even from your last post, I can’t exactly tell what you are saying. Just saying “it was a flop in business” doesn’t tell me your metric. It looks like it isn’t revenue-based, so are you saying Macs penetration into a business/enterprise environment is a flop? If so, I won’t argue that with you. But I also don’t think they’ve tried to enter the enterprise. If that is your metric of success, well, good for you. But if it’s not their metric of success, then it doesn’t really matter because clearly they are achieving whatever goals they have. Again, their marketshare has more than doubled the last few years, which is indisputably a success as a general metric.

      As far as Microsoft’s cmd.exe, I agree. Cmd.exe is not very powerful OOB. Have you ever heard of Powershell?

      Actually I hadn’t. Thanks for pointing it out.

      Apple plays to a zealous niche market, and they sell their expensive hardware (yes, twice the price of non-Apple hardware, for similar hardware specs) very well. But, their very success, they way they’ve achieved it, depends on their being a niche. I think they’ve marketed themselves into a corner.

      OK. But you still haven’t shown me how Apple’s lied and been deceptive. In fact, you haven’t answered any of my requests for proof that Apple lied or deceived people. If you’re going to make those accusations, back them up with facts, not paraphrases and your opinion. It’s what you keep insisting I provide for Microsoft. The very least you can do is be honest and back up your own statements.

      But, as I wrote earlier, let’s watch what Apple’s market share is on 1/1/2020. I project it will be less than 20%.

      You’re projecting this based on nothing. There won’t even be a “desktop” market in 2020. Everything will be mobile or dumb terminals that connect into the cloud or nanobots and wearable computers.

      And Apple is already beating the pants off Microsoft’s mobile marketshare, 25% (.3% increase) to 15% (4% decrease) over the last six months:

      http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/197338.asp

      And this is a space Apple has been in for only three years! MC has been doing mobile since forever and it is clearly failing and failing hard.

      So make your predictions about Apple’s marketshare in 10 years for a segment that won’t exist. Knock yourself out.

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    2. OK Mgriscom, just because I am a nice guy, I will say thank you again for pointing out Power Shell. The ISE is pretty cool and I admit I did not know it existed.

      And I’ve said I like Windows 7, so don’t pat yourself on the back too much. Good to see MS finally catching up to what Apple offered 9 years ago. :-P

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  31. Listen you frustrated and jealous pc users, wake up and come out from floppy generation.
    do not compare ipad with those ugly looking plastic bread box you call Laptop or Notebook…..
    i was fortunate enough to hold this ipad for minute in Bay Area and it just
    blew me away….. and mind you i am hard core computer guy who just look for quality and after using G5 WITH 18GB RAM AND I7 WITH 12 GB RAM, I can still say ipad is magical.
    Go on april 3rd to apple store and use it for 5 minute, You will be ashamed about your poor and cheap comment.
    I still use window XP pro and never complaint about it becouse it is a very balanced OS Microsoft ever produced,But you have no right to abuse a Hard core R&D who invented this products for us to enjoying browsing and enjoying while sitting on couch watching tv
    who needs a USB drive , Come on now we are moving in to next generation when we can sync all out multimedia over the clouds with itune.
    I still carry my 6.5 TB itune lib in my iphone wherever I go..
    Who wants the battery sucker flash in ipad
    do you know about flash, read here:

    We all love YouTube videos. We all love Homestar Runner. But we don’t love it when Flash ads or other Flash-related junk forces our processors to run hot and leech our precious battery fluids.
    Flash animations and videos are among the top processor hogs on Mac OS X. A single poorly-designed Flash banner – even in an inactive window or tab - can suck up an entire processor core with its shady mortgage offers.
    Your 5-hour battery life gets cut in half, your laptop runs hotter, and your legs cook to medium-rare.

    Every time you drain your battery, you bring it 0.2% closer to death’s door.
    That’s, like, 25 cents per charge at Apple’s going rate of $129 for a replacement battery.
    Not to mention the toll on your energy bill. And the nuclear coal burned to provide that electricity.
    In a world with Flash, you may end up having to replace your Computers battery over its lifetime, since the Flash plug-in is free to suck up your battery’s lithiums, ions, and polymers with wanton disregard to your pocketbook

    when ipod came: pc folk say, It’s going to be a flop product, did it happen….NO
    apple have sold nearly a billion ipod…
    when iphone lunched,PC SR director claimed that iphone will be a flop show …
    end result now everyone wants a iphone
    and now ipad you pc user screaming about
    it’s poor assessment of the product before it’s lunched

    Share
  32. I don’t accept evidence discussed here about what an evil entity Microsoft is, because no such evidence exists. There’s nothing there. I’ve begged you all to prove otherwise, but to no avail. Microsoft is just a company doing business, and they do not lie to consumers like Apple does. (The “Laptop Hunter” ads? Yes, all computer prices tend to come down with time, rather rapidly, but that doesn’t correct the twice-as-high pricing of Apple, for no value rather than feeling special about yourself.)

    True, Apple hasn’t tried to serve businesses as Microsoft had. If they wanted to, they’d be forced to imitate Microsoft, and that would be hard to spin away for them, so they won’t do it. They’ll always be a niche.

    Apple has lied and been deceptive about security: that Apple’s security is perfect (yes, they have presented as such) and that Microsoft’s security problems make it unusable (this, while Microsoft was shipping more secure software than Apple starting with XP SP2, and pulling well ahead since then).

    I’m not talkng about the phone/game machine space, you are. Yes, the iPhone has done well, and delivers value to consumers. Good for Apple there.

    As far as “segment that won’t exist” I’m talking about fully capable computers, not underpowered phones or single-task iPads, and this is 2020 so I’m not talking about computers the size of toaster ovens, necessarily. That’s why I said “fully capable computers” i.e. ones where you are not limited by the equivalent of a tiny screen or no keyboard. I’m not talking about Dick Tracy watches.

    See, in 2020, all portable devices (watches, eyeglasses with internal projectors, earbuds) will have gigs of RAM and will be hardware-capable of running any OS they want. (Excepting, maybe, surgically-implanted devices, but I don’t think they’ll be a popular item yet.) That’s what I mean by “fully-capable computer.” Or, put it another way: a “fully-capable computer” is one that can be used to develop software. That’s what I’m talking about.

    Single-task devices like the iPad probably will be long gone, as well as computers so under-endowed that they can only run Linux.

    There – have I been clear enough?

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    1. There – have I been clear enough?

      no, actually not at all.

      My point was that there will be no such thing as “fully capable” computers in 2020, or at least there will be no difference between portable computers and desktop computers. I can use my iPhone to develop software right now – it’s got text editors – so that’s not a realistic distinction.

      And I’ve begged you to show an example of Apple lying and YOU haven’t provided one. NOT ONE.

      You keep harping that Apple says its security is perfect. Show me one quote where they’ve said that. I asked for this four times now and you keep avoiding my request. It’s because you have no proof. Just admit it. All you have is your opinion that you think Apple makes self-promoting claims, which every company that ever sold a product does, including Microsoft.

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      1. Hey “SteveDave,” dude, just because you know me IRL, doesn’t mean you can sign stuff as me.

        -The Real SteveDave

        MG, the truth is, I know p-diddy in real life. He was telling me about how you two were fighting and I logged on and commented. Then he used my computer and posted some more. Anyway, that doesn’t make his points less valid. You haven’t shown a single fact that Apple has lied.

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  33. You know of course how Apple has always presented itself as having no security problems whatsoever. Apple’s proxies still make that point.

    The problem is, that’s impossible. Security problems always exist, and don’t tell me it’s the user’s fault, because that becomes Apple’s problem as well.

    Then there’s Apple’s ad that puts words in Microsoft’s mouth that were never there. “Trust me!”

    How would you feel if Microsoft ran an ad that said, in an engaging and clever way, “You can’t trust Apple. You never could. Their software always has problems.” ?

    Apple says exactly that about Microsoft with its clever ads, yet it isn’t at all true. Yes, it’s a blatant lie. IMO it’s very clear that Microsoft is the more honest and trustworthy company, and businesses agree. (True, they go with Microsoft for other reasons as well.)

    You’re probably going to put words in my mouth again, so I want to forestall that by saying that of course, Microsfot software isn’t perfect either. Perfection isn’t possible.

    I dont have a quote directly from Apple saying “our security is perfect.” They’re too devious for that; they have proxies, just like the Republicans have Fox News. Of course it was never true.

    BTW, I used Vista from RTM. I used Windows 7 since before RTM. I have had zero problems with security with either one. Does that mean I let my guard down? Of course not, and neither should you.

    You have the right to plug your ears again and go “Lalalalalala! I can’t hear you!” but the truth is what’s important.

    Next year, I’ll probably build a computer. I could spend 2.5 times as much and get an Apple that’s almost as fast… but why?

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    1. You know of course how Apple has always presented itself as having no security problems whatsoever. Apple’s proxies still make that point.

      No, actually I don’t. I’ve asked you FIVE times now to provide a source for this, and you haven’t. You have no facts to support your claims. If anyone is plugging their ears because they want to avoid the truth, it’s you.

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      1. And who are these proxies? Can you quote any of them? No, because they don’t exist.

        If they do, be an honest person and back it up with a source. If you can’t, you’re a liar, just like you have repeatedly lied about Apple saying it has no security flaws.

        But what else should I expect from a Microsoft apologist? They lie. People like you lie. It’s more of the same from the Microsoft camp.

        You have zero facts to support Apple saying they have no security issues and you can’t cite a single “proxie” as saying it either.

        You sir, are a liar.

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  34. OK, just go to http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ and you will see Apple presenting itself as free of security flaws, however impossible this is. It’s irresponsible of Apple to present itself this way, as well as mendacious. This is one of the self-limiting factors of Apple; if it gets much more success, it will run into serious problems that will fly in the face of it’s public messaging.

    As far as Apple’s proxies, here’s one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s5wQPz6E3c

    I am not lying, as I’ve demonstrated again, and again, and again. You’re just getting desperate.

    Remember: the truth will be measured in terms of worldwide market share of fully capable client machines (i.e. not Windows mobile phones, or BlackBerries, or iPhones, but general purpose computers that take the functional role of today’s laptops and desktops) on January 1st, 2020.

    Way back on March 9th, you wrote “I’m done.” but you obviously weren’t. How trustworthy is that?

    However, I really am signing off this thread. I reserve the right to call people to account on their lies about Microsoft however, simply because to villainize Microsoft (as, for example, Apple does, loudly and cleverly but mendaciously) hurts people, as I’ve demonstrated. I won’t be back though, on this thread or this article. Buh-bye!

    Share
    1. See, MGriscom, more lies. The only thing the Apple guy even said was “I feel like I’ve heard this before.” Apple didn’t make one claim that their computers had no security flaws. Not one. Sure they said Microsoft has had problems – which you’ve repeatedly admitted is true with your (irrelevant and off-topic) blathering about Conficker. If you’re leaving now, it’s because I’ve asked you repeatedly to back up your point of view and you can’t.

      You accuse people of villainizing Microsoft without a basis, but you’re doing the exact same thing with Apple. At least the people that hate Microsoft have court findings of malfeasance on two continents to back up their position.

      You’re a liar and delusional. And I’ve called you out on it. You’re leaving because you know you’re a failure. And if I came back, it’s because I couldn’t stand by and watch you repeatedly lie like you have. Who’s untrustworthy now?

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    2. You cite a youtube clip – that’s supposed to be humorous – with less than 300k views as an official “proxie”?! Is Apple supposed to be responsible for what some random guy uploaded to YouTube? If anyone’s desperate here, it’s you.

      I guess you’re a proxie for Microsoft then, right – and I can impart your lies onto them?

      You FAIL. In fact, I’ve never met someone that failed so much at successfully defending a point in my life.

      No facts, George-Bush-repeating-the-same-lie-to-make-it-true arguing, and complete lack of objectivity or ability to even respond to simple questions about your basis for belief.

      All aboard the FAILboat! Capt. MGriscom at the helm!

      Enjoy your ignorance. I’m sure you’re a hoot when discussing politics.

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    3. O hey, Mcgriscom, I just saw a Microsoft commercial for Windows 7. It had these people in it that each said they designed Windows 7. I’m sure Microsoft ACTUALLY took these people’s suggestions and made Windows 7 based on them.

      Guess what – that’s a lie. So there you go – Microsoft lies. Or is Microsoft allowed to exaggerate, but Apple isn’t? Yeah, thought so.

      Share
  35. Just got one for my self, Was very excited about it, But certainly , I now feel its just an enlarged ipod touch, Will see, I would rather gift it to some one else or sell it off on ebay…

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