I have a confession to make. I don’t dual boot. I don’t use Windows on my Mac. I don’t need to. There’s not a single bit of software I need that is Windows-only. And even though I have Office:Mac 2008, I open Word and Excel documents […]


I have a confession to make. I don’t dual boot. I don’t use Windows on my Mac. I don’t need to. There’s not a single bit of software I need that is Windows-only. And even though I have Office:Mac 2008, I open Word and Excel documents in Pages and Numbers. (I don’t hate Office, I just find iWork to be a more rewarding experience!)

But, apparently, I’m in a minority, and every other Mac owner on Earth is simply aching to run Windows 7 on their Apple hardware. Well, you’d be forgiven for thinking as much, given the articles doing the rounds on tech sites this past weekend, most of them tersely reporting how Apple has missed its own deadline for providing official Boot Camp driver support for Microsoft’s latest version of Windows.

Here’s what Apple had to say in a (very short) support note published in October last year:

Apple will support Microsoft Windows 7 (Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate) with Boot Camp in Mac OS X Snow Leopard before the end of the year. This support will require a software update to Boot Camp.

The rest of the note was just a list of the nine older models of iMac and MacBook that wouldn’t support the Boot Camp update.

AppleInsider reached out to Apple for comment last week, as 2009 drew to a close. An Apple employee responsible for dealing with Bootcamp enquiries told them:

…it was very unlikely that the update would surface in the next 24 hours, adding that a release sometime early next year would be a safer bet.

MacWorld UK writes a little more dramatically about the missed deadline:

On the same day in October that rival Microsoft launched Windows 7 , Apple promised that it would revise Boot Camp… Apple has still not released a Boot Camp revision to its Software Update service.

Although Microsoft officially unveiled Windows 7 in late October, the company first provided developers with early builds a year before that, and began offering previews to the general public in February 2009.

Apple did not elaborate on why they would not support Microsoft’s newest operating system.

I’m not sure a missed deadline is the same as Apple demonstrating they unequivocally ‘would not’ support Windows 7, but the drama doesn’t end there. Here’s Paul Thurrott’s take, from a blog post entitled “Shame on Apple for not Providing Windows 7 Drivers by Now”:

Previously, Apple promised to provide Windows 7 drivers through its Boot Camp utility […] by the end of 2009. So they’re late. But these drivers can and should have been delivered to customers when Windows 7 shipped, in October. I guess the company was too busy fixing a widely-reported user data deletion issue in Snow Leopard to bother supporting a competing system that just works.

So thanks for nothing Apple. We know you’re scared of Windows 7, but come on.

I might offer a less florid possibility; could it possibly be just a delay? Y’know, like Microsoft experienced when it delayed the release of Windows 95. And Windows 98. And Windows… oh, you get the point. Look, software delays happen and they don’t have to mean anything!

Thurrott’s Apple-fan-baiting aside, I have a serious question; am I so completely out of touch that I’m the only Mac user in the world who doesn’t dual boot? OK, I played with some virtualization tools a while back out of sheer curiosity, and the half-hearted belief that I really might need Microsoft Office (note: I didn’t) but it wasn’t long before they were removed.

A Tad Silly

Mac OS X, iLife and iWork have most my bases covered for personal creativity and productivity. And while I do a lot of online collaboration with a wide circle of colleagues and friends, most of whom are on Windows machines, I’m not exaggerating when I say — it’s simply not an issue. Honestly, there isn’t a single thing I’ve come across in 18 months that absolutely demanded I use Windows.

But apparently, that’s unusual, and most Mac owners in the world not only use Windows, they need Windows and, more than any other version, they absolutely must have Windows 7, so Apple’s missed deadline is nothing short of scandalous.

True? Because if that’s not true, all of that breathless reporting over the weekend about missed deadlines and Apple’s ‘fears’ would prove a tad silly, wouldn’t it?

Actually, I have had one issue since switching to the Mac; my friends don’t use iChat. They’re stuck with Skype or — horror of horrors –Windows Live Messenger for video conferencing and collaboration. I pity them. It’s the one thing I wish Apple would release for Windows. The world would be a better place then, I’m sure.

So, tell me, Mac Majority, is Boot Camp’s (temporarily) absent Windows 7 support really the Big Deal the tech press have made it out to be? Am I truly in some peculiar Mac Minority who don’t install Windows on their Apple hardware? Am I, in fact, missing a far bigger point? Please enlighten me.

  1. I don’t care either!

  2. I’ve been running Windows 7 in Boot Camp for months. Whether it’s supported or not, it sure as hell works. *shrug*

    1. It “almost” works. The biggest issue is the botched audio driver for the new MacBooks (trust me, there’s hacks out there, but none of them restores 100% functionality on ANY version of Windows, not just 7) that has been plaguing macbooks pro since June (only the ones with the Cirrus Logic chip, Realtek chips are unaffected).

      So yeah, for me it’s a big deal because it’s a giant pain in the ass for me not being able to use Skype under windows.

      And guys, the windows world isn’t just Office, there’s a TON of stuff that isn’t available for OSX, or is available but just in a half-assed sort of way (show me a screencapture tool that works just as fine as SnagIt, Axure or MindJet Mindmapper…)

    2. Luca,

      Are there benefits, or compatibility issues with Skype that are addressed with the Windows7 version? I have been using Skype on Mac for ages without any issues. Please share though, I’m curious.

      Also, regarding screen caps: Snapz Pro X is not only a fine screen-capture tool, but in many ways, I find it to be far superior than SnagIt on Windows. I don’t have experience with your other examples, but the fact that Snapz Pro X is built around Quicktime makes a far better professional tool IMHO, and I’m a video professional.

    3. Hi Luca,

      I use LittleSnapper to take screen shots, and it’s a hugely powerful (and essential) addition to my workflow. Couldn’t live without it. (OK, I *could*, but life would be pretty grim!)

    4. Hey Liam,

      Little Snapper is lacking in features and a pain in the butt to use.

      Do yourself a favor and get Skitch.

      You won’t look back…

    5. Never could get a good feel for Skitch… *that* seemed a pain in the butt to me! But I might give it another try.

      What I’d really like is for my screen capture software to maintain a library in sync across my Macs… that would be awesome!

      And the fact I’m so easily excited by that singular prospect tells you the true depths of sadness to which my life plummets! ;-)

    6. Self-correction: LittleSnapper does allow me to sync my library across my Macs. It’s a bit of a “hack”, in the sense that I have to put the library file into my Dropbox folder, but it works. And it works very well!

      In fact, this is the first time in many updates to the software that I’ve gone into the preferences to have a snoop about and a LOT has been added.

      I just love this app more and more every day…

  3. I agree with the author completely. Mac users need to stop complaining that W7 isn’t available yet. You bought an Apple computer so use the Apple software. If you want it so bad go buy a PC. I used W7 for about a month before switching back to Vista because it crashed most of the time. So be grateful and quit whining.

  4. I don’t understand users who have the time to reboot it just to switch to the other world. I use Windows 7 occasionally because need to use MS Project and I’m very happy with the way how VMWare Fusion does it. Why on earth would I reboot just to check where certain milestone was?

  5. I moved from Windows to Ubuntu to Mac in the search of an OS and software that performed right out of the box and allowed me to work the way I wanted to work. I found it with Apple and my Macbook, why would I regress?

  6. The biggest problem I have with it is Parallels will not build a VM based off a Boot Camp partition that Apple does not officially support.

    Windows 7 works fine in BC. It works fine in a self-contained Parallels VM. However, I can’t have a VM based on the Win 7 BC.

    1. That’s odd, I can! Don’t ask me what I’m doing differently though.

  7. first of all I am running win7 right now, even though its “not supported” and I have no problem waiting for official drivers because the only thing i do in win7 is run games, and hardly ever play comp games anymore. But i do run across a bit of software that just needs windows for some reason, but i have a feeling that will change one day…

    My take on windows 7 is this btw, although their improvements have made the OS as easy to use as say tiger, they still have a long way to go if they want to be where mac OS X is. for example try changing your dn. settings in win7.. WTF

  8. The one and only reason I run Windows is to run the geographic information system (GIS) software I need for school, as ArcGIS is Windows only. I tried using Boot Camp for a while (with Windows 7 RC, interestingly) and had no issues, but got tired of rebooting. Recently installed Win7 & ArcGIS in VMWare Fusion, and it seems to be working fine.

  9. Win7 has run flawlessly in boot camp for me since release. I use windows for Steam and Steam alone. If I could kill zombies in os x I wouldn’t care about windows, but 7 is perfect. The tech presses are dead wrong as usual, it is unfortunate they read press releases and don’t actually try using what they write about.

    1. Same here. I’ve been running Win7 in Boot Camp on both a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro for months to play COD: MW2. No issues whatsoever.

  10. Use windows for gaming. Most games are windows only and VM doesn’t cut it for that. That being said, I installed Windows7 with bootcamp anyway and the only thing I couldn’t get to work was the bootcamp control panel plugin for windows (I didn’t try that hard either) so I do dual boot and still don’t care about the missed deadline.

  11. Nope, better to keep your Mac un-infected with MS BS!

    1. ^^
      what a turd…

  12. Don’t forget, iChat can also do AIM and Google Talk, both of which are accessible to your OS-challenged friends. Skype and Windows Live both have Mac clients.

  13. I don´t use Windows neither. I have never installed any Windows version on my MacBook, and the few times I need to run Windows software I do use wine (http://www.winehq.org/), or darwine (http://darwine.sourceforge.net/), it´s free and legal.

  14. The thirteenth comment. Cool!!!

    Ok, you are not alone. I’ve never had the need to dual boot, and don’t expect to in the future, however, this may change, as my Mac is shared, AND there are games that others in the house wish to play….

    Does Parallels still work? I guess I”m not caught up….

  15. I’ve been using Windows 7 on my MBPro for months. It works great. It also works beautifully via VMware Fusion 3.0.x

    I never bother with BootCamp, although I’m constantly in the BootCamp partition thru Fusion.

    Don’t think the delay is a big deal at all, but I will say, I would NEVER have moved to the Mac if I couldn’t run my Windows apps — and there are a ton of ‘em that still either aren’t available or stink as Mac apps…

  16. Many professional applications are windows only. it’s not that i want to use windows – believe me everytime i boot it up on my macbook pro it’s a dreadful experience. i am, however forced to use applications like ArcGIS and 3ds Max on windows. many graphical applications such as sketchup and vue work better on windows (i hate to say). I don’t want to be stuck in 1995 with XP, so I use Vista – but as everyone knows, Vista sucks. I’d much rather use windows 7 if it is indeed faster and less prone to crash and freeze and warn me of some action that i am taking against myself every two minutes.

    so, yeah, i’m a little irked that mac hasn’t released windows 7 drivers yet. it’s not the end of the world, but i’m hoping that a more streamlined MS operating system would make my professional life a little smoother.

    this competitive comparison between mac and ms is getting really tiresome and old. each operating system has it’s benefits and drawbacks. why don’t you make a new year’s resolution to stop being a child and give up your sniping for the next decade or so?

    1. Pete, it sounds to me like your software needs are pretty *specific*. And while that doesn’t invalidate your personal need for Windows 7 support in Boot Camp, I suspect it doesn’t speak to the vast majority of Mac users.

      As for “competitive comparisons” between Mac and Microsoft… that’s not what the article was about, not sure why you think it was?

  17. To test my sites I run several Win boxes In VirtualBox, I have no need for Boot Camp.

    1. Kind of off subject, but do you prefer VirtualBox over VMWare Fusion? I’m stuck between then 2…

  18. I DO dual boot, but to Linux. And I don’t need Boot Camp for that: I use ReFit. I teach Linux courses, so it’s nice to have a copy installed.

  19. I have Windows 7 on my new 27″ iMac for gaming and I’d like to see it officially supported in hopes it will solve on and off again issues with the video and audio driver support. Sometimes audio works, sometimes it doesn’t, it is pretty random and annoying. Once in a while the display shifts horizontally putting the “top” of the screen halfway down the monitor.

  20. I really don’t care either. I’ve seen Windows 7 running quite well on a Mac using the current version of Boot Camp. I don’t understand what all of the complaining is about. The Mac is meant for Mac OS X, NOT Windows 7! Apple should be able to take their sweet time, and release the new version of Boot Camp when they’re ready. Imagine all of the bitching and whining that would happen if they got the product out with a lot of bugs. Maybe they discovered one, and they’re just trying to get it fixed. Geez!

  21. Don’t care. Windows 7 works in boot camp, and in months I haven’t had to switch to Windows either (the kid’s Mac mini dual boots to Win7 for games only).

  22. As a software developer who straddles both universes sometimes I need to run code natively in Windows 7 for performance reasons. (I’ve been a Mac/Apple user since the Apple II so believe me that I like both the company and product line). My issue is that Apple Support will not address any mac related issues if you have Windows 7 installed via Bootcamp. I have a brand new 27″ iMAC which refuses to a) see the Bootcamp partition on Preference/startup and b) listen for the Option key pressed on the wireless keyboard during boot-up to allow me to select which disk I want to boot from (I can do it via a wired keyboard though). When I called support I was told the machine was in a non-supported state and that they would not aid in anyway unless I removed the bootcamp partition – even though I had explained to them that the option key issue should have nothing to do with it. In the end the guy said I had to wait for the Bootcamp update that was coming out prior to Jan 1 2010 – which is now late….

    1. I have the same problem. You just HAVE to boot with a wired keyboard. I think it is because the system isnt looking for wireless hardware at this point in startup.Its annoying but you just have to pot up with it :(

  23. As I see it Apple is simply being unprofessional. They originally released a statement giving a deadline for the release of Boot Camp. If they were not going to meet that deadline they should inform the public about it. Simple as that.

    1. Simple, to the point, and true. Not that I am interested in the slightest by Bootcamp OR Win7, but for those that do, Apple should be managing those expectations.

    2. TimStalin,

      I agree completely. IMO Apple demonstrates an appalling lack of perspective when it comes to customer relations and keeping people adequately updated on software/hardware issues.

      Judging by some of the comments here, it seems that official support matters mostly to people who have extraordinarily specific needs from their software, and for whatever reason must run Windows on their Macs. I can’t help but think they’re in a minority, but that doesn’t make their frustrations any less real.

      Still, the update is only technically five days late. All of this will be swiftly forgotten if Apple pushes a software update before the end of the week!


  24. Apple does what it will. 7 works in boot and Im happy, so be it.

  25. Yeah I could care less about windows on my mac. I also do not use MS Office. I find that going from iWork to Office is like downgrading. I simply have zero use for it. Same with Windows. Absolutely zero use for it.

  26. Windows 7 doesn’t work in Boot Camp? I haven’t had any issues yet. Besides, who actually *needs* W7? Sure, it’s nice, but couldn’t you just stick with Vista or XP for another few weeks?

  27. Ok so here is why I NEED this. I am a developer and I want to start fooling around with .NET 4.0 and some of the multi-touch WPF stuff new to Windows 7. I bought a touch screen monitor for this purpose.

    I need to boot natively into Windows, since running Windows 7 in a VM won’t send Multi-touch input since Mac OS X doesn’t recognize it nor are there drivers for it.

    Clearly, this a very common use case. DOESN’T EVERYONE HAVE THIS PROBLEM? How is my Mom supposed to develop Multi-touch RTS games? Whatever will she and I do?

    1. Hahahahahaha fantastic =]: I hope Apple release this soon, so you and your Mom can continue developing…

    2. You jest, but I also have that same issue. I REALLY want to make some multi-touch apps, but Apple only really has support for it in their iPhone. They also don’t have as good a story for supporting it in web apps like you can with Silverlight. It’s killing me to have to make apps on Windows, but I’ve been craving this technology ever since I visited Perceptive Pixel and used one of Jeff Han’s wall sized screens that he made for CNN.

      My first thought was that I wanted to use VMWare fusion to run Windows 7 to develop multi-touch apps, but my guess is that you’re right that the Mac won’t send the multi-touch info into the VM.

      Did you ever get Windows 7 multi-touch apps working on your mac with Bootcamp?

  28. Anyone have input on VM Ware 3 vs. Parallels 5 for running Windows 7? Which is better? Can’t find much in way of comparison reviews on web.

  29. The only thing I ever use Windows for is games, and Windows 7 under Boot Camp works just fine for that.

    That said, I almost never want to reboot from ‘productive mode’ (OSX) to ‘gaming mode’ (Windows). It’s just not worth it. It’s nice to have the option, but it’s not something I utilize very often.

    I can’t get Windows to recognize any bluetooth devices though, so I have to switch keyboard and mouse before the restart.

  30. OK, I spend a lot of time in W7-64 bit in order to run SolidWorks 2010. I indeed have Parallels loaded, but it is just too slow to run SW. I am running a 2008 Mac Pro with plenty of RAM and eight cores, if that matters. If I could run in OS-X all the time I would, but that said, I have spent a *lot* of quality time with Apple support folks since the release of Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard has made my system more unstable. Really. On the flip side, yes I used Vista too, and hated it. I find W7 … uh, really good. The task switching is smoother and faster than OS-X and it is much, much more stable than Vista. Oh, and did I mention that the rendering program I use, Modo, only runs in 32-bit in OS-X, but runs in 64-bit in W7?
    Soooo…hey, I love Apple products, but I’m trying to be objective here. I looooove my new multi-touch magic mouse, but it would be *nice* if it would work in W-7 (full scrolling) without a hack.

    So, yes, I want the updated Bootcamp drivers asap. I’m sure they’re just delayed a bit, as you suggest.

  31. Win7 is just a modified Vista. I’ve not found a Vista driver yet that doens’t work with 7.

    I have a MacMini and it runs Win7 just fine with the Vista supported drivers.

  32. I’m running Win7 in bootcamp for one reason only…Flight Simulator 2004. The only issue I have is control of the on board sound card in Win7 (need to jack up the volume all the way to hear it) but other than that it’s very smooth. I must say that I think MS may have finally gotten it right with Win7 but time will tell.

  33. So you did not find a single thing you needed windows for huh? How about trying to use Blu-ray on your OSx? Oh it doesn’t work I here you say, so you will just use DVD instead? Maybe thats why you have not found any other software you would use on Windows, you have not looked, and are just happy with any software Apple gives you, and don’t need anything they don’t support.

    I dual boot my iMac so I can use the best of any type of software available.

  34. Nic, thanks for your comment.

    I’d hazard a guess that if your primary reason for having a dual boot with Windows 7 is to watch your Blu-Ray discs then;

    1. You’re using an external BD drive, which most people don’t have/use
    2. You’re using a Mac Pro with a 3rd party BD drive, which most people don’t have/use
    3. Either wa, you’re in a smaller minority than Patrick with his slow-running SolidWorks 2010!

    In all seriousness, I have a modest Blu-Ray collection which I’d love to integrate with my Macs, particularly given how I do a lot of media work. That said, all my colleagues prefer I deliver HD video to them via the ‘net and when it comes to watching HD, it’s either done via streamed HD, downloaded HD movies on iTunes or, if it has to be one of my actual Blu-Ray discs, on my PS3 on my huge HD screen in my den.

    I don’t think Blu-Ray disc playback is a strong argument for Windows dual-booting. Those discs used to be twice the price of standard DVDs, now they’re the same price and retailers are practically begging us to buy them! By the time most consumers get around to upgrading their home media to HD, Blu-Ray physical media will be quite unnecessary – it’ll all be done OTA. It’s practically gone that way already (except for those of us in actual media production or working in Post.)

    Just my opinion, y’understand :-)

  35. I CARE!
    I have windows 7 running now under bootcamp, but it would be nice for apple to “officially” support it.

  36. As a graphic designer and hard core Mac user, I wish I didn’t care. But… my accountant cares, and we have to use PC-only Peachtree accounting software to be compatible (and saves us about 50% in accounting fees if we’re on the same software as the accountant…)

    That being said, my piece of crap old eMachine (purchased pre-bootcamp) that we have for the purpose of running Peachtree, is dead. I really need to dual-boot one of my Macs and no one seems to have XP available for sale at this point.

    Besides that issue, I do sometimes need the PC version of Powerpoint. The PC version does have several items (like the auto-run and package for CD functions) that the Mac version does not. Unfortunately my clients still request those things…. and hopefully they won’t make that request anytime soon.

  37. “Look, software delays happen and they don’t have to mean anything!”

    So the tables have turned… and you hide under them?

    I can understand your sentiments about being the only Mac user not wanting to use a bootloader but look at it this way: Apple marketed Bootcamp to make it easier for you and the laypeople who want a transitional or permanent Apple solution, even if that “switch” involves booting into Windows. The cynicist will tell you that Bootcamp is a testament to the fact that OSX can’t sell on its own merits; that’s very debatable. I personally believe it’s a pretty, well marketed bootloader with supporting drivers for the target O/S, but that’s it. It allows you to boot into another disk/partition; nothing new here then (as cynicists will also tell you about much of OSX, to which I can agree, but I digress).

    The fact is that computers are used for productivity; different operating systems have different levels of support from those software designers. You may feel as though I’m insinuating that OSX has no industry-standard productivity software or use in a productive environment. Well, I can’t find evidence to the contrary, save some ports, Claris and Adobe software so prove me wrong :). Companies will always choose the Windows solution, even if they have deployed OSX. Why? Cost. It’s a hard line, but that’s reality. It’s also the reality consumers face when they buy a Macintosh; when they make that investment, they want it to “just work”; that includes all that software piled up for their Windows install(s).

    Oh, and before anyone asks, I use OpenSuSE 11.0 and Windows 7 (7600) on separate disks with a GRUB bootloader. SuSE is for gaming and productivity (general day-to-day stuff) and Windows is for… gaming and productivity (CS4 Master/inking). Yeah, you can argue that that’s the typical Bootcamp setup too but notice the lack of Apple; my scanner also only works under Windows, not OSX or SuSE. By this time you should get the impression that I use what I need, same as you. Yes, I have used OSX; via PowerCore emulation, OSx86, a Powerbook G4 (OSX 10.3/10.4/10.5 [Leopard Assist and some upgrading/butchering]) and an Intel iMac so I know it’s merits and failings. I didn’t find it to be a suitable operating system for my needs (if you need to know why, send me an e-mail), but that’s just me in the same way you don’t need Windows software or BootCamp.

    Sorry if this came across in a negative light, I just wanted to remain objective in the matter as I know some Macintosh users are quite outspoken and ignorant in the defence of their operating system. I just hope you aren’t one of them. :)

    1. I use Office programs all the time. I like using the MS Office 2007 products more than the Mac Office 2008 (much better interface). I am now running Win 7 under BootCamp…. however, the trackpad really isn’t stable… works flawlessly under the Mac, but its bad enough in Win 7 that at this point, I can use my Mac only as my “desktop” machine, with a keyboard and mouse attached. As soon as the Apple Win 7 drivers appear, I am looking forward to taking my Mac with me wherever I go.

    2. i-ghost

      Was kinda hard figuring out what you were trying to say, but I *think* it comes down to this;

      1. You’re saying there is no Apple/Mac software (other than Adobe/Claris) that offers the same degree of productivity as counterparts in the Windows world

      2. You’re saying that due to cost considerations, companies will always choose Windows “even if they have deployed OSX” because companies strive for maximum productivity, and

      3. You’re a Linux/Mac OS X/Windows user very highly skilled in patching/bridging/hacking OS’s to your will.

      Is that about right? OK, here are my thoughts, for what they’re worth;

      1. iWork opens and saves-to the most popular Microsoft Office formats in use today. 99.999% of the documents and doc collaboration I do in my daily work is with people in a Windows / Office world, and I use Pages and Numbers and they never even know about it. I’d say that’s pretty productive.

      2. OK, my article wasn’t about companies’ IT policies, but I’ll answer your point :-) You’re offering a paradoxical statement; if a company is so utterly committed to productivity you say can’t be found on a Mac, and is so committed to the financial bottom line, why on earth would that business have deployed Mac OS in the first place, given that you say it offers no true productivity and, of course, we know that Apple’s prices for license seats are higher than Microsoft charges for Windows/Office installs. Maybe I’m not understanding, but your argument there reads kinda wrong…

      3. You’re a computer whizz. Your take on these matters is as far from that of “most people” as it’s possible to get! I bow to your mad tecchie skillz, sir, I really do, but I wouldn’t go to you (or someone else as clever and demanding of their tech) for ‘general’ advice because I won’t get a simple answer. (I’d go in with a question about exporting a Word document to PDF and come out with with a fresh Linux distro in one hand and a copy of OpenOffice in the other!)

      I truly hope I’m not one of those outspoken-but-ignorant Mac users to whom you refer, but if I *am* I apologise unreservedly.

    3. @Liam,

      LOL…a Mac user who doesn’t take himself too seriously. Your comments to i-ghost were amusing.

      As a ‘techie’ user myself, I found it funny to see how you ‘normal’ folks view us.

      Good post as well. I don’t see why Mac users would need Windows, or vice versa.


    4. @i-ghost

      “You may feel as though I’m insinuating that OSX has no industry-standard productivity software or use in a productive environment. Well, I can’t find evidence to the contrary, save some ports, Claris and Adobe software so prove me wrong :).”

      As someone who used Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel on a Mac before it was ported to Windows, the very premise of your argument is based on a Myth perpetuated by the ignorant MS users for 25 years.

      Yes there was a Word for MS-DOS before that, but it was nothing like the Word that MS developed for the Mac, then ported over when they released Windows.

      ” just wanted to remain objective in the matter as I know some Macintosh users are quite outspoken and ignorant in the defence of their operating system.”

      Not very objective are you? Check your facts before calling others outspoken and ignorant thank you!!!

      “I just hope you aren’t one of them. :)” – yes, but you are.

      And for the record there are heaps of well known PC apps that started as Mac products, including disk utilities and Anti-virus packages that became redundant on macs and very necessary on windows.

    5. @Liam Cassidy

      1) I just meant that I, personally, have yet to encounter original productivity software that offers that same level of productivity as in Windows. Yes, iWorks is a great suite, but shouldn’t Apple be liasing with 3rd parties to market/develop more powerful software to help those wanting to switch over? (I’m talking CAD/CAM, 3DSMAX etc; Apple has yet to fill that gap with it’s own branded software). I should have made that more clear. Yes, I know Apple’s own branded software is great; I am thinking of getting a Mac for software like Logic, but I don’t want to move from Reason just yet. (read below).

      2) If a company has deployed OSX, and they need say, 3DSMAX, they can save money by using a Windows VL via Bootcamp. Or they can use their existing licences via Bootcamp. Oh wait, I see what you mean. But this is a very sketchy topic for me; I admit that I am not well researched enough into it, I need to shadow some industry experts rather than spew baseless comments. Or maybe it’s down to Apple’s business appeal in general? I personally feel that there is little to no marketing to business users or volume licensing, but that’s just me.

      3) Yes, but I can put myself in the new users shoes, because I was once at that level. Adobe Distiller exports to PDF, and OpenOffice does too :p.


      1) I don’t think you understood the tone of what I wrote. I apologise, but by “prove me wrong” I meant to say that I, personally, have yet to encounter any original productivity software for OSX, save Photoshop. I didn’t mean to speak for those “ignorant MS users”. And I do know of this Myth you speak of, everybody throws it around. Besides, your argument of Word for Mac is partly baseless as that is a port to Mac from MS-DOS so, not to be mean, but that’s not what I was looking for. :p

      Just as a general question to all, I’m thinking of getting a Macintosh when I go to University (next year) as it seems to be the normal thing to do. The Mac + iPod offer looks good but the asking price is a bit, well, asking; and you can’t really haggle with the store staff. However, should I “think different” and get a normal laptop? I could always install OSX onto a normal laptop should the need arise.

      We need a better way of communicating body language over the Internet; emoticons just don’t cut it.

  38. One other question for you guys using Win 7 on the Mac….. are you having any problems with the trackpad? Mine is very jumpy and pretty much unusable in Office 2007 Word. This forced me to go buy a new laptop just so that I could carry around when I needed to run Windows 7.

  39. I hear you, Liam. My main Mac is a six-plus–year-old Power Mac G5, and while I do have Virtual PC for running Windows XP (or 98SE, for a better experience), I think the last time I actually used it was sometime in 2007—and even then, I’m not sure what it would have been for.

    My wife’s main machine is an almost–three-year-old MacBook, and I did install Parallels 3 on that so I could take an MsSQL class, back in ’08. Once the class was done, though, I deleted the entire virtual drive to free up space.

    So yeah… excepting some oddball client (which I do get, on rare occasions), why would I ever need Ms Windows?

  40. I’m on the “don’t care” team – I’m a Windows/Web architect and have been running W7 since the early betas using Fusion. While this particular delay doesn’t have any direct impact on me, I can understand why it does for other users and I do wish Apple would sometimes show a bit more respect for the consumers who have pushed them to their current level of success. It’s not affecting me personally on this occasion, but it might do next time and it would be nice to just know that somebody cares!

  41. I don’t care about this boot camp crap…
    I perfectly happy with vm fusionware.
    I DO really NEED iChat for Windows, tho.
    Those crap in windows world just couldn’t beat iChat

  42. The problem is that Apple made windows possible to install and run on their platform, and they have advertised it strongly, now they have to choose either to make windows available and support it correctly or to stop the whole bootcamp and windows support story. You can’t promise your customers of something and make them buy you products based on claims that they can do this and that and when the customers buy them will find out they can’t do them properly. Maybe Mac OS X works just fine with you, but for those who bought mac because apple told them it can double boot, well they have the right to double boot properly.

    1. Rony, I agree with you in so much as Apple ought to stick to its promises and, when it’s gonna miss a deadline or change its plans, it should communicate that to its customers.

      That said, Apple hasn’t declared anything, so, until it does, we must assume that this update is just a bit late. Six days late, in fact. We can forgive them the fact that it was just a big holiday season and perhaps this first week back at work is proving a bit hectic. Doesn’t excuse them not publishing a poxy little update, sure, but it is just six days.

      In the meantime, Boot Camp CAN do as Apple advertised, and offers the ability to boot into Windows (including, in an unsupported manner, Windows 7).

  43. I have just bought a 27″ i5 iMac, my first Mac, having been a life long windows user. Why? Well 3 main reasons. 1. I just love the screen and the iMac concept and it looks so good. 2. I have long wondered what Mac users have been going on about (and you do go on about it). 3. Apple said I could run Windows 7 by the end of last year on it, not the main reason but definitley the clincher.
    I already have a lot of Windows software that I am familiar with (office 2007, TurboCad, foobar2000/flac etc) and the occaisonal but regular game.
    I am aware there are mac alternatives in a lot of cases however i dont want lay out for new software or learn how to use new packages yet.
    I want the best of both worlds; to run W7 from boot camp for games (for performance reasons) combined with VM Fusion/Parallels for the other windows S/W.
    Going forward I would like to be able to choose between best of breeds (but in my own time).
    So I do care about this topic and I think there is growing group of new Apple users who also do. So we may be a minority but I think a significant one for Apple.
    I agree with Rony Apple promised this so should deliver and soon, otherwise they’re just the as MS. Surely not ;-).
    Incidentally given my experience so far I don’t find OSX any “better” than W7. I think they are both very good OSes and am enjoying both.
    Or rather I would be enjoying both but I have put off installing W7 on bootcamp until fully supported, largely because there appear to be specific problems on the iMac (video drivers etc).
    Don’t let me down Apple.

    1. I already have dual boot with windows 7 and it works fine(1st gen macbook 1.83GHZ) all the drivers from snow leopard disk work fine. I just don’t use windows 7 that much though.

  44. Regrettably I was forced to use Parallels and load Win 7 because the FCC, of all places, has an application service called ULS that only accepts applications from Windows browsers with a certain version of Java that doesn’t exist in the Mac world. I filled the application for a client but can now track it back in the Mac world with a normal browser. Hope to never use Win 7 again.

  45. Don’t forget that software that runs only on Windows does exist, and sometimes it must be used.

  46. I care.

    I run Windows 7 exclusively on my Macbook now because it’s simply better than Snow Leopard for my needs. I love the hardware but the OS is just so limited in terms of software support for the applications and game I use.

    If you promise something then deliver it otherwise don’t make the promise in the first place.

  47. I couldn’t care less about W7 support in Boot Camp, but I care about Apple missing deadlines and the poor communication surrounding the late delivery. I suspect you’re right that a very, very, very small minority of users (and very, very, very new users) care at all about W7 support in Boot Camp, but all of us should care when Apple fails to deliver.

  48. I think there is a significant amount of people who bought a Mac with the “Windows works on it, too” slogan attached to it. Apple.com still has “Yes. You can run Windows.” on it’s why-a-mac site. I would call this a lie.

    Even if Apple says “we are working on it, you will have it by the end of 2009″ I would expect this lie to be removed/adjusted until the issue is resolved. But no statement even when the deadline passed? I don’t think that’s “Apple-style”.

    P.S. I’d really like to see some numbers on Apple User job distribution. Common people and writers won’t need windows, 2d designers neither, video editor’s might (due to Adobe’s missing 64bit), 3d designers might (3ds max), and devs might (Visual Studio)…

    Oh, and “Why 7?”: Would you like to use Jaguar if you had the option to use Snow Leopard instead? There are many people migrating from XP – it’s dusty once you see, what you really wanted.

    1. “P.S. I’d really like to see some numbers on Apple User job distribution. Common people and writers won’t need windows, 2d designers neither, video editor’s might (due to Adobe’s missing 64bit), 3d designers might (3ds max), and devs might (Visual Studio)”

      As someone who found this article whilst researching Boot Camp before attempting to install Win7…

      2d designers have never in my experience needed windows,

      Video editors don’t need it, The industry standard package for video editing is Final Cut Pro, adobe’s missing 64-bit doesn’t have much relevance, and even if the editor was doing effects they would quite happily continue to use After Effects under OS X as usual.

      3ds Max is by no means the only 3d package around, despite what the windows users would have you believe.

      Visual Studio is not the only way to develop software either, but if you are developing for .NET 4 then why would you use Boot Camp when Fusion or Parallels would be much more sensible.

      And the only reason I have found to possibly use Boot Camp for Win7 is to get CUDA support, and even then I am not convinced I can really be bothered rebooting and taking away all the nice stuff that OS X gives me.

      I currently have a trial version of parallels installed, along with a migrated Win XP from my testing PC, as well as a trial Win 7.

      I can’t yet see any reason I would care about Windows 7, the Win7 install is one step simpler than XP as my XP is an upgrade from Win 95.

      I have some need to view some of my work on Windows platforms for compatability checking, I have one cheap home design package I quite like for floor plans and I am using the Ikea kitchen design software which is Win only. Besides that the PC is just painful compared to the Mac. And not I am not ignorant and stupid…

      I have made a lot of money from IT support for Mac and PC platforms.

      I also work in Photography, Design, Video Production and related fields.

      I have also spent 3 years in .NET development recently, and was all day on an XP box.

      No Win7 is not the end of the world. It may be for some people, but more likely than not this is for politics of employment reasons or habit over best practice.

      Of course employment reasons are not always avoidable, but how many of those cases are not easily fixed by parallels 5?

      Of course it is not good when any company makes a commitment to release something then misses a deadline, and right now this is mildly annoying for me as I cannot safely try Boot Camp with Win7 for the sake of it.

      The reporting is clearly hysterical, and yes I do not know of many Mac users who would even notice this. Boot Camp is not the most widely used piece of software, and I wouldn’t even recommend it to anyone. Not because it has failings, just that shutting down the Mac to run Windows is just stupid.

      If you must have a particular Windows app, then Fusion or Parallels gives it to you without the shutdown.

      And how many of those Windows users who have bought a Mac because they were told it would run Windows are doing so just after getting Windows 7?

      Most of the switching users are switching because they just woke up to the fact that they can’t go to 7 without a new PC, or that Windows 7 is still Windows, and after the Vista experience they no longer see MS as the infallible god of Computers that one must use, cause now even PC people talk of the Vista mistake.

      So exactly who are these people who have been lied to?

      And if the Boot Camp Update comes out tomorrow will those who claim ‘lies’ apologise? Or next Week? Or next Month?

      And @Radian Lex, the difference is that Apple missed a deadline, so far by 7 days, which are mostly holidays, MS is just straight out lying in their ads.

      Since when did that Windows user on the ad invent touch screens for instance? What about the people who really did invent touch screens? I have even used touch screen Macs way back in the dim distant past of Black & White screens, and Apple didn’t invent them either.

      What Windows claims to have invented and fixed, they in many cases haven’t.

      7 Days late on a software release hardly compares to lies and design flaws.

  49. It’s ironic that the most recent video poking fun at Windows 7 at http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ is entitled “Broken Promises”.

  50. I’ve read a few sites saying Windows 7 works anyway with Boot Camp, but as I do rely on both Mac and Windows as my customers mostly run Windows, it’s important Apple properly and officially support Windows 7 before I go that route. I’m dual booting Leopard/XP, didn’t bother with Vista as no customers use it at their work.

  51. The only reason I have windows dual-booting is so that I can use Steam every now and then. A lot of effort to play a game of Counter-Strike, but it’s worth it :p

  52. I’m interested in the bootcamp update so I can properly run things on my mbp right now with Windows 7 on it. In our office, we’ve got our ticketing system which has a SQL back end and it’s impossible from what I can tell how to set up System DSN’s for a connection like that in os x. Not to mention I don’t even know how to authenticate to a domainto do simple tasks. We use Hyena at work to manage multiple systems and serversin Active Directory. I don’t think I’ve ever installed a game on my mac and probably never will.. but I really would like the boot camp update to come out so I have support.

  53. I got about as far as the first paragraph, and I figure I’ll agree with everything else. Why on earth would anyone want to run any Micros*(t on their Mac? Having spent a considerable sum to trash all my PC’s last year (I even used to build my own) following the Vista debacle (followed not too closely by the ME and first-stage XP debacles, has their been a lesson learned. NO?

    Let’s face it, people will spout the idealism of Apple being so proprietary – but so is Microsoft. Apple is proprietary about all their products because they work, and it’s easy to want to steal and reverse-engineer that kind of stuff.

    The notion of want to run a dual system on a Mac only makes sense if you’re a solid developer running, say, a Unix or Linux platform adjacent to the OS.

    Boot camp? Who cares?

  54. I haven’t used windows anymore since I switched to OSX 7 years ago,
    apart from one try with VMWare with XP.
    I thought I would run some games in XP, but I found a couple of Mac games (Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Need for Speed and Dragon Age) that can cure my appetitie for that half hour a week I feel like playing a game.
    For the rest, I can do anything in OSX I would do/did with a windows computer.

    I can understand though that frequent gamers want to run BC since most games are only available for windows. But as far as I know most if not all games run on XP, so what could be the problem waiting a few monts for BC to support Win7 officially. It will be a while before games appear that require Win7 anyway. Same goes for productivity software, no one really “needs” Win7 right away.

  55. Why the hell should I have to shell out an additional $80 for VM Ware when I already spent $1600 on an overpriced laptop because I thought the silver body was cool? There, I admitted it, I don’t know s*** about computers so I bought a cool looking one that I liked the commercials for. And all you freakin nerds can giggle at me from the depths of your mothers’ basements, but I don’t really care that your homebuilt hyper-drive megatron regenerator can live without Windows.

    The point is they said it would run Windows. Windows 7 has been out for months. One would assume Windows 7 is what they were talking about. Then, they refused to update their timeline that they missed, basically giving customers that relied on them the middle finger while telling us to “chill out dude.”

    And yes I absolutely MUST have Windows. Excel for Mac is useless for any advanced user (worthless without VBA, WTF were they thinking?). So no go for any finance professional and I imagine many many others as well.

    Ahhhhh… I feel better now.

  56. Subsequent to my earlier posts, I have now installed Windows 7 under Boot Camp on an iMac 24 inch.

    Yes it does work, mostly.

    The NVIDIA card gets recognised as a default VGA adaptor, which makes it pointless for me, and I am better off with Parallels.

    It was an interesting exercise though as it gave me a full on reminder as to why I do not like Windows.

    After all Windows 7 on Boot Camp right now is like any Windows on a PC platform where you do not have a vendor disk. Same messing about trying to find the right drivers.

    I had exactly the same experience a month or so ago with XP on a PC.

    So I wouldn’t say that Apple has broken any promises, you can have the real Windows experience with Windows 7 right now.

    Or more seriously, Windows 7 does run but not all hardware features will be available until the update. Not total disaster, and I am sure for those above that for some reason cannot use Parallels to run accounting software, or have not found that Skype is available for OS X, that these Apps should run OK under Win 7 without the correct video driver.

    But seriously, get Fusion or Parallels and stop messing around.

    And if you are using 3ds Max why do you need Win 7 Anyway? See the 3ds community boards for discussion of the Win 7 issues, it’s not that you need Win 7 is it? more like will it work right under Win 7? If it does then you are better off than Vista.

    If NVIDIA hurried up with their 64-But CUDA drivers I wouldn’t even have considered Boot Camp myself, let alone tried it. (So really a driver issue anyway)

    And the take up of OpenCL by developers will eventually make the CUDA issue a moot point. This is why OpenCL is needed.

  57. @LRM – go get Open Office (openoffice.org) and install it. It’s free from Sun and works very nicely in place of Office.

    1. Thanks, I’ll check it out.

  58. It surely isn’t necessity. Personally, I rarely dual boot to windows, and when I do it is solely for playing video games. Not all that tragic without 7. What my friends and I have been looking forward to as a gleam of hope from a chasm of despair is ridding ourselves of Vista. 7 is just a glorified service pack that deals with the ridiculous issues of Vista, and I’ll be glad to replace my current jury-rigged and deactivated Vista for its updated counterpart.

  59. outlook. the reason i can’t switch is because snow leopard does not support exchange 2003. that being said, I am looking for some application that runs natively on SL and supports MS exchange 2003, tell me and windows is as good as deleted!!!

  60. I don’t use BootCamp, but if Apple sold a Mac to anyone by promising that they can run Windows software on it, they should probably meet their deadlines. We still don’t have a decent OneNote equivalent on the Mac (the only real sore point I’ll still have after Adobe CS5 comes out with 64-bit Mac support) and I hear that professional accounting software is MUCH better on Windows.

    Not everyone is a web developer/blogger/designer. Apple should be held accountable for keeping BootCamp up to date, since that’s one of their reasons why “it’s easy to switch to Mac”.

    1. If people are not developer/blogger/designers then they are almost certainly better with Parallels or Fusion than BootCamp.

      Having now installed both Parallels and BootCamp I would not choose BootCamp. Parallels was straightforward, with bootcamp I got messed about by Windows, and rebooting to switch is not good.

      I haven’t tried Fusion so I can’t comment there.

      If Windows 7 was better designed this whole issue would not exist.

      I think Apple was foolish to mention a date as they are dependant on MS and the hardware vendors to make this work, and the hardware vendors have agreements on what chips to support in what drivers with the PC vendors.

      Since I cannot get some NVIDIA installers to work under Win 7 then it’s a bit hard to expect Apple to get the same NVIDIA installers to work.

      To claim that Apple has failed to fulfil the promise of making Windows Apps work on the Mac is not quite fair.

      Some Windows Apps will not work, but then I can say the same about many PCs.

      Most Windows Apps will work now, and under Win 7 on the Mac.

      And there are options to run Win 7 acceptably problem free right now, I can, with or without Boot Camp.

      (note: not totally problem free, it is Windows)

    2. “and I hear that professional accounting software is MUCH better on Windows.”

      I have heard a lot of rubbish about why just about everything is better on Windows. Don’t believe everything you hear.

      And what exactly are you missing without 64-bit CS5? unless you happen to be opening ridiculously large files in Photoshop?

      And I say again, there are much better ways to get Windows apps on your Mac than BootCamp, if you want an app like OneNote would you shutdown your computer to run it? It is an information organiser, rebooting to organise your notes then rebooting to use your other apps would be a great time waster. So get Parallels or Fusion and install Win 7, where is the problem?

      The very fact that people want to run OS X and Win 7 seems to indicate that they want Apps from both platforms, and if they do then how can rebooting be a convenient way to do that?
      ‘I’ll just stop reading my email and reboot to make a note about what you sent. then I will reboot in OS X to prepare the document mentioned in my notes, bbs.’,
      seems pretty awkward and time consuming to me.

      Is there really no better way to organise your info that saves that messing around?

      Maybe Apple should buy Parallels or Fusion and devote some more resources to it and give us the ultimate multi-os computing platform as standard. Or for around $80US you can have it now.

      How exactly has Apple left users without a way to run Windows Apps on a Mac?

      Please list any of the Apps mentioned here that will not run on a Mac right now, and that have no decent alternative on OS X.

  61. Just to supplement my earlier comments, perhaps Apple has missed the deadline (and remained silent on the issue) is that Windows 7 has not proved fully reliable; therefore, developing a BC package for it is problematic. Of course, if this is the case, I would have no qualms about issuing such a statement. That could, of course, lead to a little spitting match between them – but what’s rivalry for, if not to dis the competition.

    I’ve already had one client who lost data on W7, and I flat refuse to try it following the other SNAFUs Microlick has promulgated.

  62. I, for one, AM upset that they are obviously screwing around with this. They have how many hardware configurations to support? Not many, relatively speaking. They better wake up and realize a lot of their market share gain can be attributed to switching to Intel chips and allowing people to run Windows along with the Mac OS. I love OSX, but guess what, I won’t be doing much gaming on it, or Visual Studio work, or etc.

    1. To update my previous update:

      Windows 7 not only runs under Bootcamp, but most issues are solved by installing the bootcamp drivers.

      The Windows 7 compatibility helper messes up the installers. If you manually select the drivers they work.

      I now have the GPU fully functional and CUDA working.

      The only issues I still have are the wireless keyboard and the Magic Mouse either sleeping and you need to press a key or the mouse button and wait for a second to make them work again.

      The reason the installers do no work is that Windows attempts to make the older installers compatible, but instead it causes the installers to think the hardware is not what it was looking for. If you run the installers individually and after they fail change the compatibility settings, then the installer reports the actual problem.

      This whole issue is Windows 7 having the same old Driver mechanism, with an extra layer of ‘improvement’ trying to fix the mess.

      If you go old school and select the drivers from the list, then say have disk you can install them.

      And so far I have found that I get better benchmark performance from OS X than from Windows 7. From my current CUDA tests the CUDA performance under Win 7 is worse than the CPU performance under OS X. I think this may change.

      End result – I hate Windows 7 as I have just wasted a day, and no that is not Apple’s fault, it’s a failure of Windows software to be able to install under Windows 7. (I tried many available options for drivers besides the Apple supplied ones, they all failed for the same reason)

      My reasons for trying Windows 7 for any operational reason have not panned out to give me performance as good as OS X using the CPUs, let alone massive improvements that GPUs promise.

      The benchmarks for CPU Floating point performance are about 20% higher under OS X, and CPU Integer performance is approximately twice as good under OS X.

      Maybe the 64-Bit Win 7 would be better, but this is 32-Bit Win 7 against 32-Bit OS X, and I hate to think what driver issues I would have under 64-bit Win 7. Maybe later I’ll try it.

      This speed difference is not Apple’s fault and do not expect BootCamp to have any effect on these numbers as this is not something that Boot Camp should be messing with anyway.

  63. No Windows for me either.

  64. oh dear. you tragic dweeb. the only drama is the one in your apple-centred liitle mind

  65. I am firmly in the “do care” camp. Many of my reasons for needing to dual boot may come down to very specific requirements that are not required by the “average” user and so may well fall outside the scope of the original article but I feel compelled to expand on some of the other comments. My definition of the average user is someone who needs to have a web browser, email client, word processor and possibly a spreadsheet. Anything more, and you are starting to enter the realms of “specific needs”. Any desktop OS will provide these functions, and the best one is always the one YOU know the most about.

    I have been working on Apple since the Apple II back in 1981, and now hold engineer qualifications for Microsoft, Novell and Unix. I run various guest OS’s under VMWare on my MacBook quite happily, but there are quite a few issues with hardware support. I sometimes need to create bootable floppies (DOS/Win98) for old firewalls or firmware upgrades, and VMWare under MAC does not support a USB floppy on a Windows 98 Virtual Machine, whereas the VMWare software for Windows does. I can go on for pages and pages of examples like this but to me it boils down to one thing:

    I committed my money to Apple to buy a new MacBook Pro because I just wanted to carry around ONE laptop, irrespective of if I was going to work, or SCUBA diving off a liveaboard for a week and wanted to edit my video footage in iMovie or Final Cut, or sync and manage my iPhone 3GS. Apple said they would support Windows 7 in bootcamp, so I expect them to. I did not give them a deadline, they told me it would be before the end of the year, and I think they need to do a little more to manage that expectation and set a new (realistic) expectation of when they will deliver. Having said that, I am not crying over the delay – I have more than enough laptops and computers surrounding me to do what I need without having to rely on my MacBook. I just want to know what kind of progress we can expect from Apple and when I can leave my Windows laptop at home for the final time.

  66. [...] clients. Which means I’m forced to use some sort of emulation to play them. A commenter  on Liam’s Windows 7 piece said, “You bought an Apple computer so use the Apple software. If you [...]

  67. [...] clients. Which means I’m forced to use some sort of emulation to play them. A commenter  on Liam’s Windows 7 piece said, “You bought an Apple computer so use the Apple software. If you [...]

  68. Windows 7 works on Apple hardware, so it doesn’t matter anyway. It’s the perfect combination – scrapping Mac OS which is useless and has nothing on Windows 7 period, but still being able to enjoy the nicely designed and well thought out hardware from Apple.

  69. “Am I truly in some peculiar Mac Minority who don’t install Windows on their Apple hardware? Am I, in fact, missing a far bigger point? Please enlighten me.”

    Games, games, games, games, games.

    The ONLY reason to be a PC

    1. What reasons are there to be a Mac?

      I have now got Windows 7 working on bootcamp on my iMac 27″ i5. Apart from getting the wireless keyboard and magic mouse to work and a problem with the ati driver during the install (will the w7 bootcamp support help these? I hope so) everything else is working well so far.

      Windows 7 is a joy (so is OSX by the way) on the 27″ screen.I particularly like the task bar/dock with preview etc the only thing missing was the expose capabality on OSX but I found a utility that gives that funtionality on windows called switcher. Please note my previuos experience is pre-dominately Windows XP.

      Games are excellent, “Company of Heros” and “bioshock” so far.

      So far I prefer the Windows applications eg MS Office vs trial version of iWorks but I think that may have a good deal to do with familiarity.

      The only slight problem is I notice the fan(s) are running audibally faster under W7 than OSX. Would that previous posters comment on OSX efficiency mean the fans to dissapate heat faster under windows? This may be true but with a quad i5 and 8Gb of memory performance is not a problem. In fact performance is excellent and I have not noticed any discernable difference between Firefox on both platforms; the only direct application i can compare so far.

      Of course i’ve have only been using W7 for a couple of months so stability is not proven yet I guess. Although it has been fine so far and I have never had a problem with XP (I missed out Vista).

      So apart from the fan I don’t have any compelling reasons to move to OSX and several reasons not to, so far. I will keep trying different applications where possible simply because I am enjoying the comparison and I can!

      As I mentioned in a previous post I think that these are both very good OSs.

      However for me the iMac 27″ hardware is the true star.

      So I still care and would still like the Boot camp W7 support “when it is ready”.

  70. The reason your fans are running faster under Windows 7 is likely because you are running games which are stressing your system more than anything under Mac OS.

    1. Ah that makes sense. Thank you

  71. As a light business user on a Mac Book Air, I have never needed Boot Camp either, so far. But I admit I’m running out of options since some of the new the SaaS applications we use require .Net…

  72. Liam – agree completely. iWork does it for me with a very old copy of Office for Mac just for the odd time I really need to open something in Excel. Why would you need to dual boot your mac – cannot understand that at all. You’re not the only one.

  73. I read through a better 2/3 of these comments and also the well-written posts. I kinda admire Liam because he made it clear that he leans Mac. The only fault I find with Liam’s position is that he evaluates his usage pattern as normal and every other comment that gives reason for needing Windows is an extreme, minority user.

    In the first place, Apple does knows the value of playing in the Intel processor world. Their bottom line makes that clear. From my point of view, for instance, I have 3 macs in use in my home. If they were Mac OS only, they’d be a mix of mac and windows computers. The fact that you can dual boot is good business for Apple.

    Apple felt coy and even over-confident to support Windows dual boot until their research showed that Windows 7 is too compelling a competition. Let’s not be naive apologists. We are consumers. Don’t fool yourself with this Apple-fan-club-ishness and remember we are just consumers, not apologists for big businesses. We seem to be our worst enemies. Worse of all, don’t delude yourself into thinking that the slippage of that deadline has nothing to do with some trepidation around the immense success of Windows 7.

    I notice that people feel that if you buy a hardware (Mac) made by a company we all love (Apple), we must be crazy to exercise a liberty to use any OS of our choice. Company love must really mean a lot. IBM tried to do this and got so badly hated for it. People felt really empowered by the introduction of clones that would allow you to install any OS you wanted. So, here’s my thought: I like Snow Leopard. I also like Windows 7. I should be free to pick up any hardware of my choice. For servers, my choice hardware is Dell; for laptops, it is MacBook Pro. The Apple business model requires you to buy a Mac OS for each MacBook Pro and that’s fine because I am getting the cutest piece of hardware I know. That business model also limits how to set up dual boots to a partition manager-type piece supplied by Apple itself, known as BootCamp. Like I already said, this flexibility (even if it’s just a psychological sense of not being locked into one minority OS) is good for Apple business.
    People should be free to use whatever software they like. Most people that feel free to call people’s products names like ‘trash’ cannot write “Hello world” and make it run on more than on piece of hardware.

    Mac OS X has a simple job to do: Upgrade an existing UNIX OS (they did not write) and make it work on only their own brand of hardware. Creating the minimum set of drivers to support their core components should not even be relegated to a mere service pack if there was no business decision riding behind it.

    Fear as well as hate creates tunnel vision. Apple is known for great foresight and amazing designs but in not figuring out that BootCamp is more important to Apple than it is to Microsoft is tunnel vision.

  74. I bought my first Mac the other day, an iMac 27 i7. Very costly, but worth it. I use Macs and PCs at work on a regular basis editing and producing video and developing websites. I bought the Mac for my home use for two reasons; I always loved the Mac hardware and now it can run Windows 7. HURAAH! But wait, it can’t–well not yet without jury rigging it to work. Yeah, I could jury rig it, but for the kind of price I paid for an iMac, I shouldn’t have to. Apple – one last comment – get it done. The expansion of your sales will depend on how you handle this.

  75. HardwareRequirements Tuesday, January 19, 2010

    Sure, you don’t need windows for pretty much anything you do. But then, most people don’t need a new computer (mac or not) for anything they do. Email, word processing, spreadsheets, can pretty much be done on very old hardware.
    So let’s look at what does need good hardware (and can’t be done via virtualizaiton):
    1) GAMES (many games simply don’t run on Macs, particularly newer games)
    2) Professional Applications (there are both windows and mac exclusives)
    While Mac’s do support both of these, it is limited. Games affect a far larger demographic of computer users. If you don’t play games, or use professional applications, then you really don’t need windows on a mac at all. But you can’t simply ignore the huge number of people who do play games – Apple didn’t, and bootcamp was born.

  76. The only reason I care to boot in Windows is to run Windows-only games, because I am a big gamer and hate missing out on PC-only titles. So until more game devs get with the program, I’m stuck.

    I got Windows 7 because I could get it for the $30 student price. Only reason. Truly.

    Every other thing besides some games, I can do (and prefer to do) on my Mac.


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