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	<title>Comments on: The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges</title>
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		<title>By: Are Clouds Green ? &#124; Paul Miller - The Cloud of Data</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-974242</link>
		<dc:creator>Are Clouds Green ? &#124; Paul Miller - The Cloud of Data</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-974242</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges (gigaom.com) [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges (gigaom.com) [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: doug mauer</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-963330</link>
		<dc:creator>doug mauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-963330</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If this is a general discussion about the costs of cloud computing, it seems that no one is taking into consideration the folks who are actually using these services, not located in a data center but in offices around the planet where internet access is not NEARLY as inexpensive as $8/mbps.  So,  a company considering moving to cloud services must consider all the hosting and datacenter charges, PLUS the biggie, the increased bandwdith costs they will need to access their services from the office. You cannot buy office business class connectivity anywhere near the pricing of $15 / mbps that the cloud boys are quoted herein as charging, so I say a company would need to mulitply their bandwidth costs at more like 10-50 times that much. So, the fact is that there are even more hidden costs than discussed here for companies wanting to go this way. This will drive the market for cloud computing. There will be a sweet spot for these services but will be weighted at the smaller end businesses. large businesses will have the infrastructure to handle this in house AND have offsite (other business locations) for their own data centers. Hardware is cheap, and in house bandwidth is free. I&#039;m not so sure this whole &quot;cloud computing&quot; thing will take off like everyone thinks. It is a good market, but in house servers are not going away by any stretch.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this is a general discussion about the costs of cloud computing, it seems that no one is taking into consideration the folks who are actually using these services, not located in a data center but in offices around the planet where internet access is not NEARLY as inexpensive as $8/mbps.  So,  a company considering moving to cloud services must consider all the hosting and datacenter charges, PLUS the biggie, the increased bandwdith costs they will need to access their services from the office. You cannot buy office business class connectivity anywhere near the pricing of $15 / mbps that the cloud boys are quoted herein as charging, so I say a company would need to mulitply their bandwidth costs at more like 10-50 times that much. So, the fact is that there are even more hidden costs than discussed here for companies wanting to go this way. This will drive the market for cloud computing. There will be a sweet spot for these services but will be weighted at the smaller end businesses. large businesses will have the infrastructure to handle this in house AND have offsite (other business locations) for their own data centers. Hardware is cheap, and in house bandwidth is free. I&#8217;m not so sure this whole &#8220;cloud computing&#8221; thing will take off like everyone thinks. It is a good market, but in house servers are not going away by any stretch.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Internet Marketing, Strategy &#38; Technology Links &#8211; July 21, 2009 &#171; Sazbean</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961367</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet Marketing, Strategy &#38; Technology Links &#8211; July 21, 2009 &#171; Sazbean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961367</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges (GigaOM) [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges (GigaOM) [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: GNC-2009-07-20 #495 Do you Like Math? &#124; Everything about everything</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961294</link>
		<dc:creator>GNC-2009-07-20 #495 Do you Like Math? &#124; Everything about everything</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961294</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] about Twitter. Real Password Issues. Data Says were going Mobile! T-Mobile Going Socials? What For? The Real cost of the Cloud! Time Warp and S3 Backups Kazaa goes Legit New Apollo 11 Images! AT&amp;T Loosing Voice mail Can [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about Twitter. Real Password Issues. Data Says were going Mobile! T-Mobile Going Socials? What For? The Real cost of the Cloud! Time Warp and S3 Backups Kazaa goes Legit New Apollo 11 Images! AT&amp;T Loosing Voice mail Can [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: GNC-2009-07-20 #495 Do you Like Math? &#124; Everything about everything</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961295</link>
		<dc:creator>GNC-2009-07-20 #495 Do you Like Math? &#124; Everything about everything</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961295</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] about Twitter. Real Password Issues. Data Says were going Mobile! T-Mobile Going Socials? What For? The Real cost of the Cloud! Time Warp and S3 Backups Kazaa goes Legit New Apollo 11 Images! AT&amp;T Loosing Voice mail Can [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about Twitter. Real Password Issues. Data Says were going Mobile! T-Mobile Going Socials? What For? The Real cost of the Cloud! Time Warp and S3 Backups Kazaa goes Legit New Apollo 11 Images! AT&amp;T Loosing Voice mail Can [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tech News &#187; Toshiba dances on HD DVD’s grave, gets in bed with Blu-ray</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961263</link>
		<dc:creator>Tech News &#187; Toshiba dances on HD DVD’s grave, gets in bed with Blu-ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961263</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: satish sharma</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961166</link>
		<dc:creator>satish sharma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961166</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What&#039;s up with GigaOm  - is it going through amateur hour?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Cost of $1.85 is for &quot;raw bandwidth&quot; that someone drops and your front door -- you have to carry that into the servers - in and out. Provide redundancy in the network -- in the building in your cloud on top of it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You have to pay people to manage these switches and routers. I don&#039;t see the margins much different than your pizza stores or McDonald&#039;s.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s up with GigaOm  &#8211; is it going through amateur hour?</p>

<p>Cost of $1.85 is for &#8220;raw bandwidth&#8221; that someone drops and your front door &#8212; you have to carry that into the servers &#8211; in and out. Provide redundancy in the network &#8212; in the building in your cloud on top of it.</p>

<p>You have to pay people to manage these switches and routers. I don&#8217;t see the margins much different than your pizza stores or McDonald&#8217;s.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961133</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961133</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Dave - it is a myth that there are &quot;higher costs for bandwidth in the cloud vs dedicated hosters/colos/ISPs.&quot;  And I don&#039;t understand the statement that higher latency is introduced by cloud networks... why would latency be higher in the cloud vs traditional hosting companies?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think you&#039;re making the mistake of Amazon == all cloud companies.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dave &#8211; it is a myth that there are &#8220;higher costs for bandwidth in the cloud vs dedicated hosters/colos/ISPs.&#8221;  And I don&#8217;t understand the statement that higher latency is introduced by cloud networks&#8230; why would latency be higher in the cloud vs traditional hosting companies?</p>

<p>I think you&#8217;re making the mistake of Amazon == all cloud companies.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges &#124; Digital Asset Management</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961120</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hidden Cost of the Cloud: Bandwidth Charges &#124; Digital Asset Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 06:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961120</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Continues @ http://gigaom.com [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Continues @ <a href="http://gigaom.com" rel="nofollow">http://gigaom.com</a> [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Asprey</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961119</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Asprey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 06:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Allan is right. Higher costs for bandwidth in the cloud vs dedicated hosters/colos/ ISPs will drive some apps away from the cloud. So will the higher latency introduced by the cloud networks (higher latency in-data center) and the lack of bandwidth shaping or advanced bandwidth controls that are necessary for high end at-scale apps. If you don&#039;t believe that, try sending traffic between two Amazon EC2 zones and see if you can predict what throughput you&#039;ll get. Or read my earlier GigaOm post titled &quot;What Intel Can Teach Google About the Cloud.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A bizarre form of cloudbursting would make sense here, related to what content providers have been doing with CDNs for years. Content providers host their own pages but refer the high capacity ones to CDNs. If I was launching a new bandwidth intensive app today, I&#039;d rely on the cloud for my user subscription and account admin features as much as I could in order to have quick scale and usage-based pricing, but I&#039;d put the commodity storage intensive stuff in my own well-peered data center or on a cheaper service. Many apps can run partly in the cloud if the economics justify that kind of architecture.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allan is right. Higher costs for bandwidth in the cloud vs dedicated hosters/colos/ ISPs will drive some apps away from the cloud. So will the higher latency introduced by the cloud networks (higher latency in-data center) and the lack of bandwidth shaping or advanced bandwidth controls that are necessary for high end at-scale apps. If you don&#8217;t believe that, try sending traffic between two Amazon EC2 zones and see if you can predict what throughput you&#8217;ll get. Or read my earlier GigaOm post titled &#8220;What Intel Can Teach Google About the Cloud.&#8221;</p>

<p>A bizarre form of cloudbursting would make sense here, related to what content providers have been doing with CDNs for years. Content providers host their own pages but refer the high capacity ones to CDNs. If I was launching a new bandwidth intensive app today, I&#8217;d rely on the cloud for my user subscription and account admin features as much as I could in order to have quick scale and usage-based pricing, but I&#8217;d put the commodity storage intensive stuff in my own well-peered data center or on a cheaper service. Many apps can run partly in the cloud if the economics justify that kind of architecture.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: William B. Norton</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961089</link>
		<dc:creator>William B. Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961089</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hmmm.  The Business Case for Peering for Cloud Providers....  /Me envisioning a research white paper&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.  The Business Case for Peering for Cloud Providers&#8230;.  /Me envisioning a research white paper</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Allan Leinwand</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961068</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Leinwand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961068</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You&#039;re right - if they a cloud provider can do peering and save on transit fees then their bandwidth gross profit would increase.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right &#8211; if they a cloud provider can do peering and save on transit fees then their bandwidth gross profit would increase.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961039</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961039</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Richard - the reason the cloud computing market (the kind of cloud computing mentioned in the article that Amazon, Azure and Rackspace are offering) is mature is because dedicated/virtual servers and storage have been around for a long time.  Market leaders have it down to a science and the product has become a commodity.  What is new between that old model and the new cloud computing model discussed here is on-demand scalability and hourly billing.  While I believe those 2 features are extremely valuable and important, they don&#039;t really turn everything upside down from an operational perspective.  And if you&#039;re choosing a hosting provider that doesn&#039;t offer those cloud features... why?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@Raindeer - you&#039;re correct about peering.  A company can save a significant amount of money peering.  But like I and others have said above, that&#039;s only 1 aspect of the cost of delivering bandwidth to servers or data.  Bandwidth is an ultra competitive market and the big providers pay all the way down to $0 for bandwidth, but they still need to charge money because it does in fact cost them to manage it.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard &#8211; the reason the cloud computing market (the kind of cloud computing mentioned in the article that Amazon, Azure and Rackspace are offering) is mature is because dedicated/virtual servers and storage have been around for a long time.  Market leaders have it down to a science and the product has become a commodity.  What is new between that old model and the new cloud computing model discussed here is on-demand scalability and hourly billing.  While I believe those 2 features are extremely valuable and important, they don&#8217;t really turn everything upside down from an operational perspective.  And if you&#8217;re choosing a hosting provider that doesn&#8217;t offer those cloud features&#8230; why?</p>

<p>@Raindeer &#8211; you&#8217;re correct about peering.  A company can save a significant amount of money peering.  But like I and others have said above, that&#8217;s only 1 aspect of the cost of delivering bandwidth to servers or data.  Bandwidth is an ultra competitive market and the big providers pay all the way down to $0 for bandwidth, but they still need to charge money because it does in fact cost them to manage it.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Raindeer</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961031</link>
		<dc:creator>Raindeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961031</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting calculations, however you completely forgot about peering. If you had, you could have argued that Microsoft doesn&#039;t even need to pay for all of its bandwidth as it can peer away a significant percentage, saving it and the receiving network significant amounts in transit fees&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting calculations, however you completely forgot about peering. If you had, you could have argued that Microsoft doesn&#8217;t even need to pay for all of its bandwidth as it can peer away a significant percentage, saving it and the receiving network significant amounts in transit fees</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Richard Donaldson</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961029</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Donaldson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961029</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@ Chris - great commentary: really like the Vegas analogy as I can see this in a variety of other areas, most specifically the entire datacenter/infrastructure mgmt platform solutions (a proxy for cloud adoption and mgmt imho) - many people can be identified having dropped into this rabbit hole and never coming out of it until they had sunk millions for something that doesn&#039;t quite work as advertised...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@ Scott - I am very curious to see why you think that this market is mature - the operational quandries and confusion blogged about near daily seems to indicate otherwise - no one argues that &quot;cloud&quot; is &quot;hip&quot;, but is it really mature?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lastly - the entire concept, imho, of the cloud revolves around a highly interconencted set of datacenters that are, from get-go, managed entirely as if the datacenter was a part of the computing platform, thereby allowing our IT best practices of centralized management to take root, providing the abiltiy to script &amp; automate heretofore run-book processes that are manual (like technician going an writing down CRAC/UPS stats versus seeing on a dashboard) and allowing algorithms to come into play that shift data in and out of datacenters as say: a) seasonal electrical prices fluctuate, or b) impending weather looms (think Miami hurricane season), or c) you need to get your computing edge closer to the customer for latency requirements...all of which is possible, yet not in evidence in today&#039;s offerings (hence, the lack of maturity).  Clouds are the utility computing model come to reality (as Nic Carr talks about), but are still in the infancy stage of deployment and development - we also, which is something I talk about A LOT, are completely avoiding the sales/marketing aspect of this - the highly consultative sale that must be enabled is a part of the vendors &quot;earning the trust&quot; of the clients - outsourcing your companies sacred data is not to be taken lightly, it must be earned thru consistently good services that are always evolving for the best (think Myspace having lost the social wars here) to remain in the leadership position&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Chris &#8211; great commentary: really like the Vegas analogy as I can see this in a variety of other areas, most specifically the entire datacenter/infrastructure mgmt platform solutions (a proxy for cloud adoption and mgmt imho) &#8211; many people can be identified having dropped into this rabbit hole and never coming out of it until they had sunk millions for something that doesn&#8217;t quite work as advertised&#8230;</p>

<p>@ Scott &#8211; I am very curious to see why you think that this market is mature &#8211; the operational quandries and confusion blogged about near daily seems to indicate otherwise &#8211; no one argues that &#8220;cloud&#8221; is &#8220;hip&#8221;, but is it really mature?</p>

<p>Lastly &#8211; the entire concept, imho, of the cloud revolves around a highly interconencted set of datacenters that are, from get-go, managed entirely as if the datacenter was a part of the computing platform, thereby allowing our IT best practices of centralized management to take root, providing the abiltiy to script &amp; automate heretofore run-book processes that are manual (like technician going an writing down CRAC/UPS stats versus seeing on a dashboard) and allowing algorithms to come into play that shift data in and out of datacenters as say: a) seasonal electrical prices fluctuate, or b) impending weather looms (think Miami hurricane season), or c) you need to get your computing edge closer to the customer for latency requirements&#8230;all of which is possible, yet not in evidence in today&#8217;s offerings (hence, the lack of maturity).  Clouds are the utility computing model come to reality (as Nic Carr talks about), but are still in the infancy stage of deployment and development &#8211; we also, which is something I talk about A LOT, are completely avoiding the sales/marketing aspect of this &#8211; the highly consultative sale that must be enabled is a part of the vendors &#8220;earning the trust&#8221; of the clients &#8211; outsourcing your companies sacred data is not to be taken lightly, it must be earned thru consistently good services that are always evolving for the best (think Myspace having lost the social wars here) to remain in the leadership position</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Virtual Web Symphony</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/17/the-hidden-cost-of-the-cloud-bandwidth-charges/#comment-961026</link>
		<dc:creator>Virtual Web Symphony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=59702#comment-961026</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Clouds are still not popular and it&#039;s going to take pretty long time before we really embark on our journey to cloud computing.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clouds are still not popular and it&#8217;s going to take pretty long time before we really embark on our journey to cloud computing.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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