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	<title>Comments on: Should We Force Marriage Between Broadband and Power Cos?</title>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Crackhorns</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216971</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimmy Crackhorns]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216971</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think itis a compelling argument, however, free market economists and players would go ballistic if the Feds came in and forced a massive upgrade to broadband and electrical grid. I like the idea because BPL is light years ahead of wi-fi and cable....we&#039;re talking ethernet speeds bi-directional to multiple devices. But it also pigeon holes you to a power source that can be shut down through various means. It&#039;s a risky prop and the real solution lies in a hybrid of redundency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think itis a compelling argument, however, free market economists and players would go ballistic if the Feds came in and forced a massive upgrade to broadband and electrical grid. I like the idea because BPL is light years ahead of wi-fi and cable&#8230;.we&#8217;re talking ethernet speeds bi-directional to multiple devices. But it also pigeon holes you to a power source that can be shut down through various means. It&#8217;s a risky prop and the real solution lies in a hybrid of redundency.</p>
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		<title>By: Smart Grid Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Should We Force Marriage Between Broadband and Power Cos?</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216970</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smart Grid Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Should We Force Marriage Between Broadband and Power Cos?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] via Should We Force Marriage Between Broadband and Power Cos?. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] via Should We Force Marriage Between Broadband and Power Cos?. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Lampe</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216969</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Lampe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216969</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I have a great deal of respect for Andres, who is a leader in the field, I think it is a little early to rule out the use of the home broadband connection for the home connection to Smart Grid, at least in some circumstances.   At the NIST standards sessions for Smart Grid, this was one of the use cases of interest.

The issues are complicated and the answers will vary, utility by utility, but here are some of the considerations that utilities are facing:
1. Is the purpose of the connection to better inform the consumer of information on consumption and pricing or to give the utility direct control for load reduction?
2. If direct load reduction, what is the value of the load shedding capacity of the home...that is if an individual home uses little power, is it cost effective to try to do load control at that home (that is, is there a threshold of consumption that estalishes it as cost effective)?  Is an interruption of the Broadband service for a few homes significant to the management of the grid?
3.  Is the utility going to be able to support real-time pricing (both with sytems and politically) or will it be limited to generalized time periods for &quot;peak charges&quot;...as pricing approaches real-time pricing the greater the need to signal consumers, and the more need for there to be a good user interface for consumers to atuomate their interaction with the pricing information.  What will the pricing models be for use of the commercial wireless networks for extensive messaging, which is the model most of the meter vendors have been pushing?
5.  What is the anticipated role of the need to communicate with the charging systems for plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles...the more communication required, the greater driver to assure a reliable connection?
6.  While a broadband connection interruption might interfere with a reading at the time of a billing cycle end, utilities have always had methods to address missed reads.  The loss of a consumer&#039;s broadband connection, where the connection is transmitting information to the utility, may be an alert for the utility that they may need to check-in with the customer;  depending on the model, the customer may lose their ability to get a preferential rate (where given for load control), or get the information they need to reduce their electric bill, or only be able to  charge their vehicle other than during a default window set by the utility.

The previous comment, that there is much to do for the utility to be able to use increased magnitudes of data to improve operations is very true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have a great deal of respect for Andres, who is a leader in the field, I think it is a little early to rule out the use of the home broadband connection for the home connection to Smart Grid, at least in some circumstances.   At the NIST standards sessions for Smart Grid, this was one of the use cases of interest.</p>
<p>The issues are complicated and the answers will vary, utility by utility, but here are some of the considerations that utilities are facing:<br />
1. Is the purpose of the connection to better inform the consumer of information on consumption and pricing or to give the utility direct control for load reduction?<br />
2. If direct load reduction, what is the value of the load shedding capacity of the home&#8230;that is if an individual home uses little power, is it cost effective to try to do load control at that home (that is, is there a threshold of consumption that estalishes it as cost effective)?  Is an interruption of the Broadband service for a few homes significant to the management of the grid?<br />
3.  Is the utility going to be able to support real-time pricing (both with sytems and politically) or will it be limited to generalized time periods for &#8220;peak charges&#8221;&#8230;as pricing approaches real-time pricing the greater the need to signal consumers, and the more need for there to be a good user interface for consumers to atuomate their interaction with the pricing information.  What will the pricing models be for use of the commercial wireless networks for extensive messaging, which is the model most of the meter vendors have been pushing?<br />
5.  What is the anticipated role of the need to communicate with the charging systems for plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles&#8230;the more communication required, the greater driver to assure a reliable connection?<br />
6.  While a broadband connection interruption might interfere with a reading at the time of a billing cycle end, utilities have always had methods to address missed reads.  The loss of a consumer&#8217;s broadband connection, where the connection is transmitting information to the utility, may be an alert for the utility that they may need to check-in with the customer;  depending on the model, the customer may lose their ability to get a preferential rate (where given for load control), or get the information they need to reduce their electric bill, or only be able to  charge their vehicle other than during a default window set by the utility.</p>
<p>The previous comment, that there is much to do for the utility to be able to use increased magnitudes of data to improve operations is very true.</p>
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		<title>By: Whiplash, In Case you missed the Energy Efficiency News July 6-10, 2009 &#124; Energy Circle</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216968</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Whiplash, In Case you missed the Energy Efficiency News July 6-10, 2009 &#124; Energy Circle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] consumers,  Gigaom raised concerns that utilities may be technologically and culturally slow to adapt to broadband distribution of electricity data, meaning that consumers may not be able to get useful information in real-time, and may have to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] consumers,  Gigaom raised concerns that utilities may be technologically and culturally slow to adapt to broadband distribution of electricity data, meaning that consumers may not be able to get useful information in real-time, and may have to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Kopelman</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesse Kopelman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The technology to do broadband over in home wiring is not applicable to broadband over outside wiring.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The technology to do broadband over in home wiring is not applicable to broadband over outside wiring.</p>
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		<title>By: Libran Lover</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Libran Lover]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Electric utility companies have been using (dedicated) phone lines to get frequent meter reads from some large customers such as manufacturing units, for many years now. Most smart meter installations right now use a combination of RF and cell-phone network to get meter reads. So, there is some merit to the idea of using broadband connections get meter reads. Utilities have two main concerns:

1. Reliability - they must have assured two-way communication with the meters 100% of the time. Even if the electric utility customer is not actually a broadband customer, even if the customer does not pay his broadband bill and gets his internet service shut off, the electric utility company must be able to communicate with the meter. What happens if/when the broadband company has to do maintenance on their network? Is there a redundant fall-back network for meter communications or the meters pretty much incommunicado during the maintenance window?

2. Security.

A third concern is cost - broadband companies must offer meter communication at lower costs than the technology currently used by the utilities. If the above two basic requirements and the cost concern can be met by the broadband companies, I don&#039;t see a reason why utilities would not sign up to use the broadband channel to get meter data.

LL]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Electric utility companies have been using (dedicated) phone lines to get frequent meter reads from some large customers such as manufacturing units, for many years now. Most smart meter installations right now use a combination of RF and cell-phone network to get meter reads. So, there is some merit to the idea of using broadband connections get meter reads. Utilities have two main concerns:</p>
<p>1. Reliability &#8211; they must have assured two-way communication with the meters 100% of the time. Even if the electric utility customer is not actually a broadband customer, even if the customer does not pay his broadband bill and gets his internet service shut off, the electric utility company must be able to communicate with the meter. What happens if/when the broadband company has to do maintenance on their network? Is there a redundant fall-back network for meter communications or the meters pretty much incommunicado during the maintenance window?</p>
<p>2. Security.</p>
<p>A third concern is cost &#8211; broadband companies must offer meter communication at lower costs than the technology currently used by the utilities. If the above two basic requirements and the cost concern can be met by the broadband companies, I don&#8217;t see a reason why utilities would not sign up to use the broadband channel to get meter data.</p>
<p>LL</p>
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		<title>By: ManoMan</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216965</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ManoMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 05:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is not the sharing of information, it&#039;s the sheer amount of data points collected and the lack of software analysis to figure out what is a problem and what isn&#039;t.  I work at an electric cooperative on some smartgrid stuff, and truly this is a misdirected effort.  99 percent of all data is collected and not analyzed.  Why collect hourly readings, demand KW, and control appliances centrally when only 1 percent of the customers would ever be affected by its results.

The best thing you could do is buy a little device with CT&#039;s that monitors your usage real time and displays in dollars what you&#039;re using right now.  If you&#039;re on a Time of Use Rate at 30 cents per hour, you&#039;ll care a lot about your usage from 2-5 pm, when it costs 6 times more to buy electricity.  That will alter consumptive behavior as fast as gas prices of $4.00.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is not the sharing of information, it&#8217;s the sheer amount of data points collected and the lack of software analysis to figure out what is a problem and what isn&#8217;t.  I work at an electric cooperative on some smartgrid stuff, and truly this is a misdirected effort.  99 percent of all data is collected and not analyzed.  Why collect hourly readings, demand KW, and control appliances centrally when only 1 percent of the customers would ever be affected by its results.</p>
<p>The best thing you could do is buy a little device with CT&#8217;s that monitors your usage real time and displays in dollars what you&#8217;re using right now.  If you&#8217;re on a Time of Use Rate at 30 cents per hour, you&#8217;ll care a lot about your usage from 2-5 pm, when it costs 6 times more to buy electricity.  That will alter consumptive behavior as fast as gas prices of $4.00.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/07/10/should-we-force-marriage-between-broadband-and-power-cos/#comment-216964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=57551#comment-216964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another concern that is not addressed, is that while right now it seems that power and broadband companies have nothing to compete over, in the future they might become direct competitors.  The idea of internet over the power grid has long been thrown around, and should be coming alive now that at least linksys has figured out how to do it inside the home.  Therefore it is clearly a viable way of transferring data.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another concern that is not addressed, is that while right now it seems that power and broadband companies have nothing to compete over, in the future they might become direct competitors.  The idea of internet over the power grid has long been thrown around, and should be coming alive now that at least linksys has figured out how to do it inside the home.  Therefore it is clearly a viable way of transferring data.</p>
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