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	<title>Comments on: Schooner Launches Specialized Servers for Speedy Data Delivery</title>
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		<title>By: Is the End Nigh for Database Appliances?: Cloud Computing News &#171;</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-584686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Is the End Nigh for Database Appliances?: Cloud Computing News &#171;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-584686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] about having to worry about scaling their data layers or tuning for better performance. However, as my colleague Stacey Higginbotham pointed out in covering Schooner&#8217;s launch, &#8220;I’ve seen appliance efforts play out before. And I can’t help but think of that [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about having to worry about scaling their data layers or tuning for better performance. However, as my colleague Stacey Higginbotham pointed out in covering Schooner&#8217;s launch, &#8220;I’ve seen appliance efforts play out before. And I can’t help but think of that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s Up at Gear6? Nothing Good, We Hear</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What&#8217;s Up at Gear6? Nothing Good, We Hear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] its assets on Friday; I&#8217;ve reached out to the company but am still waiting to hear back. Rival Schooner Infotech, meanwhile, is wasting no time feasting off Gear6 &#8212; it&#8217;s offering to help Gear6 [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] its assets on Friday; I&#8217;ve reached out to the company but am still waiting to hear back. Rival Schooner Infotech, meanwhile, is wasting no time feasting off Gear6 &#8212; it&#8217;s offering to help Gear6 [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: What&#8217;s Up at Gear6? Nothing Good, We Hear</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What&#8217;s Up at Gear6? Nothing Good, We Hear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] its assets on Friday; I&#8217;ve reached out to the company but am still waiting to hear back. Rival Schooner Infotech, meanwhile, is wasting no time feasting off Gear6 &#8212; it&#8217;s offering to help Gear6 [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] its assets on Friday; I&#8217;ve reached out to the company but am still waiting to hear back. Rival Schooner Infotech, meanwhile, is wasting no time feasting off Gear6 &#8212; it&#8217;s offering to help Gear6 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gear6 Brings Memcached to Amazon&#8217;s Cloud &#8211; GigaOM</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gear6 Brings Memcached to Amazon&#8217;s Cloud &#8211; GigaOM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] Flickr and Digg, and also the target of several VC-backed startups&#8217; efforts including Schooner and NorthScale. By offering its memcached products across a variety of platforms, Gear6 is adapting [...]&lt;/p&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Flickr and Digg, and also the target of several VC-backed startups&#8217; efforts including Schooner and NorthScale. By offering its memcached products across a variety of platforms, Gear6 is adapting [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aaron deMello</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron deMello]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 01:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Current gen MLCs can support a large number of writes. Check out the recent reviews on Anandtech and Tom&#039;s Hardware.

If you blew $100k on your SSD / Memcache project and have nothing to show for it, then there is something wrong with your engineer or perhaps you have a rare app that does not benefit from cache.... which I find hard to believe.

I agree that you power costs must be astronomical... this would be helped tremendously if you built a cache layer that was hit before your dbase layer.

Finally, you can get a 32GB SSD that is SLC for $400.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Current gen MLCs can support a large number of writes. Check out the recent reviews on Anandtech and Tom&#8217;s Hardware.</p>
<p>If you blew $100k on your SSD / Memcache project and have nothing to show for it, then there is something wrong with your engineer or perhaps you have a rare app that does not benefit from cache&#8230;. which I find hard to believe.</p>
<p>I agree that you power costs must be astronomical&#8230; this would be helped tremendously if you built a cache layer that was hit before your dbase layer.</p>
<p>Finally, you can get a 32GB SSD that is SLC for $400.</p>
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		<title>By: Gear6&#8217;s Web Cache Makes Web Scalability Easier</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gear6&#8217;s Web Cache Makes Web Scalability Easier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] market would make avoidance more difficult. Gear6 now competes with Schooner&#8217;s new high-end appliance-based approach to memcached optimization, and Virident today announced its GreenCloud lineup of servers. The [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] market would make avoidance more difficult. Gear6 now competes with Schooner&#8217;s new high-end appliance-based approach to memcached optimization, and Virident today announced its GreenCloud lineup of servers. The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Downson</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Downson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I run 14 racks in a data-center for a Web 2.0 web-site (cannot share the name) on LAMP stack.
I am not sure if there are just developers making comments here. Developers dont have to pay for their developed application, I do. I run a script that collects &quot;unix load&quot; and application requests per second across the servers. Let me make some quick observations for many unaware developers::
1) There is no $600 server. If there is no memory and no storage throughput on the system, its not a memcache or mysql box. It could be a webserver, but not memcache or mysql - lets not confuse.
Our servers cost ~$6k for memcache and $10-12k for mysql servers.
2) 97% of the time, the load is below minimal threshold set by our sizing team - that adjusts load and sizing on memcache and mysql every month.
3) The cost (power + cooling) of 14 burning racks is astronomical - I wish we were getting paid for every transaction like EBay. I cannot even depreciate these costs.
4) So one year ago, someone said Virtualization, now we spend 1 person on provisioning servers and taking care of images. I never knew virtualization would need so much administration. Solutions offered to me are hefty in their price or devoid of any good functionality set.
5) 6 months ago our lead systems engineer took on the challenge of coding up memcache on Flash. After going through various vendors and different technologies, $100k down the drain, performance, stability and functional objectives havent met. That&#039;s not to say other smart engineers wouldn&#039;t be able to crack the nut... but I would rather have had the systems engineer work on problems that our users hit, which relieves immediate pain.
6) The $400 SSD is probably MLC which suck as you cannot do a lot of writes to them.

Bottom line,  I like to see real hard data, not marketing hype. Bring me an appliance that solves my problems, I will negotiate the price and get a better bottom line for my company. Now thats only what I care for.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I run 14 racks in a data-center for a Web 2.0 web-site (cannot share the name) on LAMP stack.<br />
I am not sure if there are just developers making comments here. Developers dont have to pay for their developed application, I do. I run a script that collects &#8220;unix load&#8221; and application requests per second across the servers. Let me make some quick observations for many unaware developers::<br />
1) There is no $600 server. If there is no memory and no storage throughput on the system, its not a memcache or mysql box. It could be a webserver, but not memcache or mysql &#8211; lets not confuse.<br />
Our servers cost ~$6k for memcache and $10-12k for mysql servers.<br />
2) 97% of the time, the load is below minimal threshold set by our sizing team &#8211; that adjusts load and sizing on memcache and mysql every month.<br />
3) The cost (power + cooling) of 14 burning racks is astronomical &#8211; I wish we were getting paid for every transaction like EBay. I cannot even depreciate these costs.<br />
4) So one year ago, someone said Virtualization, now we spend 1 person on provisioning servers and taking care of images. I never knew virtualization would need so much administration. Solutions offered to me are hefty in their price or devoid of any good functionality set.<br />
5) 6 months ago our lead systems engineer took on the challenge of coding up memcache on Flash. After going through various vendors and different technologies, $100k down the drain, performance, stability and functional objectives havent met. That&#8217;s not to say other smart engineers wouldn&#8217;t be able to crack the nut&#8230; but I would rather have had the systems engineer work on problems that our users hit, which relieves immediate pain.<br />
6) The $400 SSD is probably MLC which suck as you cannot do a lot of writes to them.</p>
<p>Bottom line,  I like to see real hard data, not marketing hype. Bring me an appliance that solves my problems, I will negotiate the price and get a better bottom line for my company. Now thats only what I care for.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Page</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Page]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Memcached (www.danga.com/memcached/) is a trivial less than 2000 line of code. What effort does it take to have it run on a $400 SSD? Why not start an open-source project on it and take Facebook&#039;s network and scalability optimizations and build free software for everybody?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Memcached (www.danga.com/memcached/) is a trivial less than 2000 line of code. What effort does it take to have it run on a $400 SSD? Why not start an open-source project on it and take Facebook&#8217;s network and scalability optimizations and build free software for everybody?</p>
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		<title>By: free online virtual worlds</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167302</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[free online virtual worlds]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167302</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I totally agree with zubinwadia. Unless its going to show some reeeeaaal significant improvement otherwise I don&#039;t think the current loading speeds are any major problems.
I guess the advantages just doesn&#039;t weigh out the disadvantages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with zubinwadia. Unless its going to show some reeeeaaal significant improvement otherwise I don&#8217;t think the current loading speeds are any major problems.<br />
I guess the advantages just doesn&#8217;t weigh out the disadvantages.</p>
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		<title>By: zubinwadia</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zubinwadia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Google / Amazon / Yahoo / MSFT et al actually see $600-1000 servers as an advantage.

You get more of them, and if they fail, they can be:

a) replaced cheaply
b) take down only 1/x of the infrastructure dedicated to that service/pool

Putting your eggs in a giant basket/schooner is precisely what they don&#039;t want to do @ their scale. Data center engineers @ GAYM assuming failure as a constant in their environments. Distributing that failure equates to lowering the probability of sustained downtime and impact.

Additionally, the granularity allows a data-center to evolve to more modern hardware smoothly... decommissioning a machine doesn&#039;t mean loss of service.

Enterprises are a different story, and schooner may have a shot there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google / Amazon / Yahoo / MSFT et al actually see $600-1000 servers as an advantage.</p>
<p>You get more of them, and if they fail, they can be:</p>
<p>a) replaced cheaply<br />
b) take down only 1/x of the infrastructure dedicated to that service/pool</p>
<p>Putting your eggs in a giant basket/schooner is precisely what they don&#8217;t want to do @ their scale. Data center engineers @ GAYM assuming failure as a constant in their environments. Distributing that failure equates to lowering the probability of sustained downtime and impact.</p>
<p>Additionally, the granularity allows a data-center to evolve to more modern hardware smoothly&#8230; decommissioning a machine doesn&#8217;t mean loss of service.</p>
<p>Enterprises are a different story, and schooner may have a shot there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167300</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How is the &#039;Schooner Appliance&#039; any different than a large generic server with a new name? It looks to me like it&#039;s just a server with a lot of RAM and some solid state storage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is the &#8216;Schooner Appliance&#8217; any different than a large generic server with a new name? It looks to me like it&#8217;s just a server with a lot of RAM and some solid state storage.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I must confess that I am having a hard time working out a viable economic scenario for these appliances.

An observation about appliances generally: if you are big enough to need extreme performance that might justify buying an expensive appliance rather than using a large, generic server, you usually have someone around who can tweak and tune the server application to get a similar result less expensively. It is a rare company that has Internet-scale web apps with racks of servers and yet lacks the resources to administrate them such that it would justify an appliance as a shortcut. For certain very specialized domains there might be an argument for it, but not for generic applications like MySQL and memcached.

Specialized appliances find their sweet spot in the market as an abstraction layer for complex functionality that fits poorly in vanilla server hardware (think core routers) or by using the appliance as an interface to unique functionality that offers more than just first-order convenience (e.g. some database analytics appliances).  Simple convenience as the abstract selling point for an appliance is a hard position to defend over any length of time; someone will inevitably separate the convenience from the hardware, and sell it at a significantly lower price.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must confess that I am having a hard time working out a viable economic scenario for these appliances.</p>
<p>An observation about appliances generally: if you are big enough to need extreme performance that might justify buying an expensive appliance rather than using a large, generic server, you usually have someone around who can tweak and tune the server application to get a similar result less expensively. It is a rare company that has Internet-scale web apps with racks of servers and yet lacks the resources to administrate them such that it would justify an appliance as a shortcut. For certain very specialized domains there might be an argument for it, but not for generic applications like MySQL and memcached.</p>
<p>Specialized appliances find their sweet spot in the market as an abstraction layer for complex functionality that fits poorly in vanilla server hardware (think core routers) or by using the appliance as an interface to unique functionality that offers more than just first-order convenience (e.g. some database analytics appliances).  Simple convenience as the abstract selling point for an appliance is a hard position to defend over any length of time; someone will inevitably separate the convenience from the hardware, and sell it at a significantly lower price.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: deb</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167298</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What does it cost? Has it done anything for enhancing I/O bandwidth, minimizing seek times etc? it seems optimized for read-mostly web applications (big ram [for memcached?], large network bw support).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does it cost? Has it done anything for enhancing I/O bandwidth, minimizing seek times etc? it seems optimized for read-mostly web applications (big ram [for memcached?], large network bw support).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Wilensky</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167297</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan Wilensky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more thing:

I&#039;m not banging these guys at Schooner, specifically, all power to them - as if my opinion matters at all. The general trend has been for application specific boxes, like XML accelerators, to just never get traction in the market.

That said, there is a problem with today&#039;s n-tier model, not actually the model, but the way it has been pushed into the field. That connection between application server / logic, and database is just such a mess, and it has spawned these bastardized tool-sets to cure the illness. I&#039;m just not sure that custom boxes are the way to address this crappy coupling of database to app server.

See Openlinksw.com, where they solved the issue of coupling years ago. They got no respect for the brilliant and elegant solution of vertically integrating the app server, language hosting run time environment, and the database server. As a company, they have solved so many legacy problems and moved on, now to the CEO&#039;s evangelism of Linked data, which I completely fail to comprehend; Kingsley lost me two years ago at RDFS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not banging these guys at Schooner, specifically, all power to them &#8211; as if my opinion matters at all. The general trend has been for application specific boxes, like XML accelerators, to just never get traction in the market.</p>
<p>That said, there is a problem with today&#8217;s n-tier model, not actually the model, but the way it has been pushed into the field. That connection between application server / logic, and database is just such a mess, and it has spawned these bastardized tool-sets to cure the illness. I&#8217;m just not sure that custom boxes are the way to address this crappy coupling of database to app server.</p>
<p>See Openlinksw.com, where they solved the issue of coupling years ago. They got no respect for the brilliant and elegant solution of vertically integrating the app server, language hosting run time environment, and the database server. As a company, they have solved so many legacy problems and moved on, now to the CEO&#8217;s evangelism of Linked data, which I completely fail to comprehend; Kingsley lost me two years ago at RDFS.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bret Clement</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167296</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bret Clement]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gear6 will officially announce their new memcached-based appliance on April 20. This product recently came out of beta. Learn about it on this April 14 webinar: http://bit.ly/cvFWy &quot;Scaling website performance by caching session and profile data with Memcached” or read about it in today&#039;s press release: http://bit.ly/85hYH.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gear6 will officially announce their new memcached-based appliance on April 20. This product recently came out of beta. Learn about it on this April 14 webinar: <a href="http://bit.ly/cvFWy" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/cvFWy</a> &#8220;Scaling website performance by caching session and profile data with Memcached” or read about it in today&#8217;s press release: <a href="http://bit.ly/85hYH" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/85hYH</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Musing:Schooner Launches Specialized Servers for Speedy Data Delivery &#124; My Etherealmind</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2009/04/13/schooner-launches-specialized-servers-for-speedy-data-delivery/#comment-167295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Musing:Schooner Launches Specialized Servers for Speedy Data Delivery &#124; My Etherealmind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=45381#comment-167295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Schooner Launches Specialized Servers for Speedy Data Delivery: &#8220;GigaOM&#8221; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Schooner Launches Specialized Servers for Speedy Data Delivery: &#8220;GigaOM&#8221; [...]</p>
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