Comments on: Fiber to the Home — For $10,000 http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:47:41 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: DOCSIS 3.0: Coming Soon to a Cableco Near You • Blog Archive • DOCSIS 3.0 http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-942120 DOCSIS 3.0: Coming Soon to a Cableco Near You • Blog Archive • DOCSIS 3.0 Tue, 05 May 2009 07:07:58 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-942120 <p>[...] capabilities. They also can offer fiber-like speeds to business customers without spending more money to deploy fiber. Cable providers have seen growth in residential services stay relatively flat, so they’re [...]</p> [...] capabilities. They also can offer fiber-like speeds to business customers without spending more money to deploy fiber. Cable providers have seen growth in residential services stay relatively flat, so they’re [...]

]]> By: DOCSIS 3.0 Coming Soon to an ISP Near You http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-941407 DOCSIS 3.0 Coming Soon to an ISP Near You Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:26:59 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-941407 <p>[...] capabilities. They also can offer fiber-like speeds to business customers without spending more money to deploy fiber. Cable providers have seen growth in residential services stay relatively flat, so they’re [...]</p> [...] capabilities. They also can offer fiber-like speeds to business customers without spending more money to deploy fiber. Cable providers have seen growth in residential services stay relatively flat, so they’re [...]

]]> By: thegeniusfiles http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916639 thegeniusfiles Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:34:20 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916639 <p>I live in rural Wisconsin. Ironically, there is a fiber cable running right through my front yard, yet I must pay CenturyTel to run a phone line across and under the road to get DSL because the fiber cable belongs to a company that the Feds don't allow to serve my location. You might be surprised at just how much fiber is already out there... but government regulations may prevent your access to it. The whole argument about infrastructure costs is often wildly inflated.</p> I live in rural Wisconsin. Ironically, there is a fiber cable running right through my front yard, yet I must pay CenturyTel to run a phone line across and under the road to get DSL because the fiber cable belongs to a company that the Feds don’t allow to serve my location. You might be surprised at just how much fiber is already out there… but government regulations may prevent your access to it. The whole argument about infrastructure costs is often wildly inflated.

]]> By: Brett Glass http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916586 Brett Glass Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:57:57 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916586 <p>Who says that broadband does not have the same value as water, sewer, or electricity? Also, $10K is cheap for the amount of work required to bury fiber. That's why wireless is so much more practical and cost-effective. Our company can put high speed wireless on your home for $200 or less.</p> Who says that broadband does not have the same value as water, sewer, or electricity? Also, $10K is cheap for the amount of work required to bury fiber. That’s why wireless is so much more practical and cost-effective. Our company can put high speed wireless on your home for $200 or less.

]]> By: John Thacker http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916580 John Thacker Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:30:57 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916580 <p>And remember anyway that water isn't government-provided in many rural areas, even some suburban areas. Wells and neighborhood wells are quite common. Electricity and especially the phone network are better comparisons to Internet service, due to the need to hook up to a network.</p> And remember anyway that water isn’t government-provided in many rural areas, even some suburban areas. Wells and neighborhood wells are quite common. Electricity and especially the phone network are better comparisons to Internet service, due to the need to hook up to a network.

]]> By: John Thacker http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916579 John Thacker Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:27:38 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916579 <p><em>I am of the the belief that broadband is more like water or electricity in that everyone should have access to it, but as a homeowner looking at a $5,000 (or $10,000) cost for something that doesn’t even begin to approach that type of value, I think homes with tails will be a hard sell.</em></p> <p>And you complain in that linked post about the 1% of US homes that can't get broadband at all. Don't you think that for those homes it would cost even more than $10,000 to run fiber to?</p> <p>The government does subsidize running phone lines to remote rural locations. But that's why there are people in very remote locations where the government subsidizes their local phone service to the tune of $5,000 to $10,000-- <strong>per year</strong>, not a one time fee. If someone wants to live in the middle of nowhere, with no one else within miles, fine, but I don't see why their cost has to be subsidized.</p> I am of the the belief that broadband is more like water or electricity in that everyone should have access to it, but as a homeowner looking at a $5,000 (or $10,000) cost for something that doesn’t even begin to approach that type of value, I think homes with tails will be a hard sell.

And you complain in that linked post about the 1% of US homes that can’t get broadband at all. Don’t you think that for those homes it would cost even more than $10,000 to run fiber to?

The government does subsidize running phone lines to remote rural locations. But that’s why there are people in very remote locations where the government subsidizes their local phone service to the tune of $5,000 to $10,000– per year, not a one time fee. If someone wants to live in the middle of nowhere, with no one else within miles, fine, but I don’t see why their cost has to be subsidized.

]]> By: Fiber to the Home — For $10,000 | wroon news http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916536 Fiber to the Home — For $10,000 | wroon news Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:36:51 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916536 <p>[...] View original here:  Fiber to the Home — For $10,000 [...]</p> [...] View original here:  Fiber to the Home — For $10,000 [...]

]]> By: Dave Burstein http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916535 Dave Burstein Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:17:00 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916535 <p>The fiber tail idea is inexpensive iff the whole neighborhood is done at the same time, not house by house. The Time Warner salesmen are way off base with the $5-10K figure. I'd guess that they are estimating digging streets and/or running fiber exclusively to you but not your neighbors at the same time. If you're the only home in a great distance, that could be right, but few of us are like Gordon Moore with miles in some directions to his neighbors.</p> <pre><code>Even then, if the fiber was put in automatically with the water or electric when the house was built (a good idea and now becoming typical,) it is actually cheaper than copper. "Fiber is cheaper than udon" is the Japanese saying. The fiber itself is cheap; the cost is labor, which is needed for new copper as well. So fiber is the right choice for any new build, which is becoming standard. </code></pre> <p>The fiber long tail work makes far more sense if you think of it as built "neighborhood at a time," as Verizon generally does. That brings the cost to something more like $1,000/home.Built into your phone charge is the copper currently to your home at $10-20/month. Fiber comes in similar. Over 60 months, that's $17/home. Over 120, much less. It's realistic to expect fiber to have a very long lifetime, with only the end electronics needing to be occasionally changed out.</p> <p>The likely cost of fiber to 95-98% of U.S. homes is somewhere between $500 and $2,000 each, with something on the lower end most probable. Verizon's 2008 number for running fiber is $700 per home passed and dropping. Iliad/Free.fr's figure is €1,500, which is based on 25-40% penetration, I believe. (I have to check with Xavier.)</p> <pre><code>The $4,000 figure for Verizon is from Craig Moffett, who triples Verizon's cost per home because he assumes only 1 in three will take the service. The BSG figures make a similar assumption. Moffett's figures include the cost of the set top and the home wiring, etc (Verizon puts at $650. Those installs are taking a long time, still. ) There are many other but much smaller issues with Moffett's data, but the key thing is it's looking at a different problem than you are. </code></pre> The fiber tail idea is inexpensive iff the whole neighborhood is done at the same time, not house by house. The Time Warner salesmen are way off base with the $5-10K figure. I’d guess that they are estimating digging streets and/or running fiber exclusively to you but not your neighbors at the same time. If you’re the only home in a great distance, that could be right, but few of us are like Gordon Moore with miles in some directions to his neighbors.

Even then, if the fiber was put in automatically with the water or electric when the house was built (a good idea and now becoming typical,) it is actually cheaper than copper. "Fiber is cheaper than udon" is the Japanese saying. The fiber itself is cheap; the cost is labor, which is needed for new copper as well. So fiber is the right choice for any new build, which is becoming standard.

The fiber long tail work makes far more sense if you think of it as built “neighborhood at a time,” as Verizon generally does. That brings the cost to something more like $1,000/home.Built into your phone charge is the copper currently to your home at $10-20/month. Fiber comes in similar. Over 60 months, that’s $17/home. Over 120, much less. It’s realistic to expect fiber to have a very long lifetime, with only the end electronics needing to be occasionally changed out.

The likely cost of fiber to 95-98% of U.S. homes is somewhere between $500 and $2,000 each, with something on the lower end most probable. Verizon’s 2008 number for running fiber is $700 per home passed and dropping. Iliad/Free.fr’s figure is €1,500, which is based on 25-40% penetration, I believe. (I have to check with Xavier.)

The $4,000 figure for Verizon is from Craig Moffett, who triples Verizon's cost per home because he assumes only 1 in three will take the service. The BSG figures make a similar assumption. Moffett's figures include the cost of the set top and the home wiring, etc (Verizon puts at $650. Those installs are taking a long time, still. )  There are many other but much smaller issues with Moffett's data, but the key thing is it's looking at a different problem than you are.
]]> By: sm http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916514 sm Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:36:00 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916514 <p>Ok, I've got FTTH last month for a price that might shock you - Euro 20, I pay Euro 30 monthly, and soon they will be selling settop boxes for TV.</p> Ok, I’ve got FTTH last month for a price that might shock you – Euro 20, I pay Euro 30 monthly, and soon they will be selling settop boxes for TV.

]]> By: Fiber Fan http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916493 Fiber Fan Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:05:12 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916493 <p>Based on the number of truck rolls and excavation Verizon did in our neighborhood, I'd guess the $4K figure is gonna be pretty close.</p> <p>But do i want that cost bundled into my new house? No way. Give me a DSL over copper, please.</p> <p>I don't know what you guys think is so necessary to go over, say, 256kbps, but I haven't seen it, and it ain't worth $10K, or $4K.</p> <p>Verizon was given a monopoly on FTTH; they will pay off their investment soon enough. Fios costs at least $50 a month, and typical users will be paying $100-150. Cable will not be able to offer true 20MBPS uploads.</p> Based on the number of truck rolls and excavation Verizon did in our neighborhood, I’d guess the $4K figure is gonna be pretty close.

But do i want that cost bundled into my new house? No way. Give me a DSL over copper, please.

I don’t know what you guys think is so necessary to go over, say, 256kbps, but I haven’t seen it, and it ain’t worth $10K, or $4K.

Verizon was given a monopoly on FTTH; they will pay off their investment soon enough. Fios costs at least $50 a month, and typical users will be paying $100-150. Cable will not be able to offer true 20MBPS uploads.

]]> By: Stacey Higginbotham http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916475 Stacey Higginbotham Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:06:44 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916475 <p>Tom, if I could get U-verse I would try it, but alas, I'm not in an area that's close enough to the the CO, or populated enough depending on who I ask at AT&T. It's not a great demographic for broadband is my guess.</p> <p>Garry, of course it occurred to me. I'm hoping someone can shed some more light on possible pricing beyond the Verizon numbers.</p> <p>Allen, I should say it doesn't approach that type of value today. I have no doubt it will, but when contemplating my household budget it's not something I can defend, even amortized out over a period of years. I hate to fall in with the telco thinking, but I can't be a visionary AND pay my bills at this point even if it does make me sad.</p> <p>@Tim and Todd, I'm thinking some kind of fiber to the node deployment used as backhaul for LTE. But that may not end up being the panacea I hope for.</p> Tom, if I could get U-verse I would try it, but alas, I’m not in an area that’s close enough to the the CO, or populated enough depending on who I ask at AT&T. It’s not a great demographic for broadband is my guess.

Garry, of course it occurred to me. I’m hoping someone can shed some more light on possible pricing beyond the Verizon numbers.

Allen, I should say it doesn’t approach that type of value today. I have no doubt it will, but when contemplating my household budget it’s not something I can defend, even amortized out over a period of years. I hate to fall in with the telco thinking, but I can’t be a visionary AND pay my bills at this point even if it does make me sad.

@Tim and Todd, I’m thinking some kind of fiber to the node deployment used as backhaul for LTE. But that may not end up being the panacea I hope for.

]]> By: Allen http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916455 Allen Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:39:44 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916455 <p>"$5,000 (or $10,000) cost for something that doesn’t even begin to approach that type of value"</p> <p>Interesting. That's what the carriers are saying.</p> “$5,000 (or $10,000) cost for something that doesn’t even begin to approach that type of value”

Interesting. That’s what the carriers are saying.

]]> By: Garry King http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916448 Garry King Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:31:40 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916448 <p>Did it occur to you that the TW guys were pulling your chain?? At least where I live in Texas, the biggest cost is in the permitting and labor with material being only a small fraction of the CPE connection cost. The actual cost of fiber isn't drastically more than than that tired old Coax the TW guys want you to be happy with.</p> Did it occur to you that the TW guys were pulling your chain?? At least where I live in Texas, the biggest cost is in the permitting and labor with material being only a small fraction of the CPE connection cost. The actual cost of fiber isn’t drastically more than than that tired old Coax the TW guys want you to be happy with.

]]> By: Tom Schwitzgebel http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916443 Tom Schwitzgebel Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:03:52 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916443 <p>Thus the beauty of AT&T's U-Verse product. They bring fiber to a node near your neighborhood and then use the POTS twisted pairs to bring it into your house. I have the service and love it.</p> <p>Cheers! Tom</p> Thus the beauty of AT&T’s U-Verse product. They bring fiber to a node near your neighborhood and then use the POTS twisted pairs to bring it into your house. I have the service and love it.

Cheers! Tom

]]> By: Heather Kennedy http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916441 Heather Kennedy Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:55:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916441 <p>How is this not the same 1985 argument about cable, i.e. we didn't get cable til I was in 5th grade and survived on ONE channel until then. The people 4-5 miles up the road had to wait even longer. I wish I could show you the map/FIOS service in my area. Sometimes it's just bureaucracy that keeps FIOS out. Or Comcast.</p> How is this not the same 1985 argument about cable, i.e. we didn’t get cable til I was in 5th grade and survived on ONE channel until then. The people 4-5 miles up the road had to wait even longer. I wish I could show you the map/FIOS service in my area. Sometimes it’s just bureaucracy that keeps FIOS out. Or Comcast.

]]> By: Jesse Kopelman http://gigaom.com/2008/12/04/fiber-to-the-home-for-10000/#comment-916438 Jesse Kopelman Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:30:36 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=31022#comment-916438 <p>Sorry Stacey, for some reason I hallucinated Om in the byline.</p> Sorry Stacey, for some reason I hallucinated Om in the byline.

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