Comments on: 4G: Forget Cell Towers, Bring on the Femtocells

By: Consensus on LTE Femtocell Layer as starting point | Heder 3G 4G - Mobile Phone Technology News

Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:54:27 +0000

[...] There is this news in Gigaom: [...]

By: Analyst: Femtocells Aren’t Dead Yet!

Analyst: Femtocells Aren’t Dead Yet! — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:01:19 +0000

[...] was forecast (GigaOM Pro, subscription required) when these tiny base stations for the home first started garnering attention last year. However, analysts at Deutsche Bank beg to differ, arguing in a new report that femtocells will be [...]

By: Who Needs Femtocells If We Have Wi-Fi?

Who Needs Femtocells If We Have Wi-Fi? — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:26:45 +0000

[...] required). That’s bad news for Qualcomm, Samsung, Airvana, Ubiquisys, PicoChip and others betting on the [...]

By: Like Fixed-Mobile Convergence, Femtocells Are on a Road To Nowhere

Like Fixed-Mobile Convergence, Femtocells Are on a Road To Nowhere — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:01:59 +0000

[...] 4G: Forget Cell Towers, Bring on the Femtocells. [...]

By: Slow Wired Broadband Could Choke LTE Femtocells

Slow Wired Broadband Could Choke LTE Femtocells — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:15:02 +0000

[...] comments As super-fast, Long Term Evolution wireless networks are deployed, some are questioning whether carriers even need 4G femtocells to boost coverage in the home. A post this week over at Unstrung adds fuel to the debate by [...]

By: Susurros Tecnológicos » Blog Archive » 10 megas simétricos por 15 € en las principales ciudades de Extremadura

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:50:53 +0000

[...] una malla de nodos en los que los propios usuarios actuarán como distribuidores de la señal, probablemente mediante el uso de femtocells o [...]

By: 10 megas simétricos por 15 € en las principales ciudades de Extremadura

10 megas simétricos por 15 € en las principales ciudades de Extremadura — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:04:11 +0000

[...] una malla de nodos en los que los propios usuarios actuarán como distribuidores de la señal, probablemente mediante el uso de femtocells o [...]

By: WiMAX Deployment Needs Pico-Sized Help - GigaOM

WiMAX Deployment Needs Pico-Sized Help - GigaOM — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:04:30 +0000

[...] heard this before in relation to LTE rollouts from a few equipment vendors, but those rollouts would include personal base stations, called [...]

By: Femtocell in a Photo Frame « Media Experiences 2 Go

Femtocell in a Photo Frame « Media Experiences 2 Go — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:44:11 +0000

[...] that it plans to pursue WiMAX femtocells as part of the Clearwire rollout. And there is talk about using femtocells in certain hot spots to boost LTE service when that comes to market. The gist of the idea is that operators could promote 4G speeds in [...]

By: Jesse Kopelman

Jesse Kopelman — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:08:51 +0000

This or something similar has come up with every new generation of Cellular.

2G — Carriers will work with electric/cable/phone cos to deploy microcells and repeaters on utility poles

3G — Carriers will work with landlords to deploy DAS and IP-backhaul picocells in commercial/public settings and customers to deploy personal repeaters in private settings

4G — Same as before, but picocells have been renamed as femtocells (I guess the former had too much of a stink of failure to it)

You will notice that these scenarios, despite having been around 15 years have largely failed to come to pass in the US. The major issue is that carriers have more and more outsourced their network design and deployment functions over the years and that leads to cookie cutter solutions. Cookie cutter solutions in Cellular means towers and rooftops.

By the way, the rent vs. backhaul argument boils down to a question of urban or rural. Urban backhaul is is far cheaper and far more efficiently utilized. At the same time rent is far lower in rural locations. I think you will find on average, that in the US rent is indeed the largest single reoccurring cost. Rent for many urban rooftops is > $2,000/month per carrier and I’m sure the $4,000 threshold has been breached a few times in NYC. In urban settings a DS3 can be had for < $2,000 month. In rural settings the whole cell site can get by with a single T1, although its cost may well be higher than the rent.

By: austin mcdonnell

austin mcdonnell — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:09:15 +0000

The most expensive part of the BTS is still the backhaul expense. As the carriers resolve to cut this expense, rooftop rent then becomes a larger portion of the overall expense. From what we see as rooftop wireless equipment auditors, the carriers have taken advantage of the property owners lack of knowledge in regard to equipment deployments as compared to tower companies who have a primary stake in keeping their knowledge base current; hence, staying up to date with what is actually being deployed and increasing their rents accordingly. It has been our position that the carriers would like to move off their rooftops before their rooftop property owners realize they have been dropped kicked into a nightmare that includes lost rent and liability issues stemming from property owner employee/contractor eyeball level interaction with radiating antennas that does not exist on towers that have natural barriers of separation where radiating antennas are typically deployed 150′ above authorized carrier maintence personal.
What is actually driving parts of the femto cell conversation in our opinion is the move to deploy on future Distributed Antenna Networks located on municiple light standards and utility poles. This type of deployment will bring into play many more antenna sites and redeploy rooftop sites closer to the street. Our hope here is that individual DNA does not have a role in absorption and retention of electromagnetic transmissions; not a good thing if the signals are moving closer and closer to human activity. Further, the data networks in 3G have moved into the higher frequencies which means sites do not propagate as well as the older legacy voice sites. Voice is data in the future. Wimax is a standard today with a 4G path. LTE is merely a talking point. Both are to use OFDMA as their air interface: so why LTE? With the economy headed toward what appears to be a long term retrenchment – special interest expectation cannot be weeded out overnite – possibly we may see a carrier spinoff into strictly a network operator, we cannot be the only ones that see the potential: Verizon Wireless powered by the Xoam Network or AT&T Mobility powered by the Xoam Network. Shortly, Xoam is Clearwire WiMax. WiMax operates at 2.5GHz, increasing the propagation challlenge. Clearwire WiMax is partnered with the Cableco’s. The Cableco’s are murmuring a femto cell chant and they already have equipment they rent to substantial households in metropolitan areas; which can be amended with a newer cable converter that may have a femto cell inside that they can rent to you for maybe more money. It all seems pausable to us. Sprint will still retain 51% of Clearwire WiMax; last we heard top management was boning up on the Shackleford Expedition where the ship was destroyed and the crew survived.

By: Femto_2008

Femto_2008 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:38:39 +0000

Ram … glad to see you agree. The US market, like all markets, is unique in itself.

And if you stop thinking of wireless service in terms of “voice” and “data” you will see that coverage is king because the higher modulation schemes and increased data rates, and legacy services from your wireless service (IMS etc) all are enhanced.

if you want to save money and stick with your limited WIFI service and pay extra for your cellular service .. be my guest. Otherwise, it makes sense to think “outside the box” and take advantage of improved performance where it can be had economically.

By: Markus Göbel's Tech News Comments

Markus Göbel's Tech News Comments — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:29:52 +0000

At an LTE conference in Berlin I spoke to two Motorola network managers. They explained me a femtocell approach that could be suitable for integrated carriers such as Vodafone, which owns one of the biggest DSL providers in Germany: Arcor.

People could get a very cheap DSL connection from Arcor under the condition that they install a femtocell at home, which is not only for themselves but can be used by every passing Vodafone user on the street. Vodafone would subsidize my fixed line if I help them with their wireless LTE coverage.

The Motorola people also told me that the most expensive cost unit of a cellphone base station is the roof rent. I guess they would be happy to cut some antennas in exchange for femtocells. It seems plausible to me.

By: Ram Krishnan

Ram Krishnan — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:26:21 +0000

Femto_2008,

It is a little different in the femtocell case. I already have a WiFi router along with FiOS AP in my house for internet access. Now you are asking me to put one more AP in my house – What is the incentive for me? If it is voice coverage, I agree there is case to be made. There are folks in the US who will definitely even pay for this AP if it means they don’t have to go out of the house to make a call. But this is not true in Europe and Asia where there are *no* voice coverage issues.

If the operators want me to put this box in my home for data coverage, now I am not sure consumers will buy into that. I have good coverage using WiFi, thank you. Which means operators have to provide financial incentives and that eats into the benefits of femtocell deployment.

By: Femto_2008

Femto_2008 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:11:33 +0000

To answer both Ram and Markus, you are forgeting to put your consumer hat on I believe. You pay the electricity for your cable/internet access provider and dont think twice about it, even though YOU (the consumer) are the one paying for their service. Likewise, femtocells are all about “better coverage” and the means to use available backhaul to achieve this better coverage (i.e. wireless service).

The question everyone should really be asking, is can you make money from femtocells using the current model? As for the traffic caps mentioned (i.e. 250GB), it is very rare that the femtocell service alone would add this significant hit to your usage in the forseeable future as 3G implementations of femtocell networks will be the first to hit the market for the next several years.

By: Ram Krishnan

Ram Krishnan — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:57:27 +0000

Hi Stacey,

Thus far, a business case for femtocells exist only for voice coverage. The business case breaks down for pure data access. Several business issues exist even if you assume all the technology challenges will be addressed in the near future (which is not true today, by the way).

- Why would DSL/cable companies agree to carry large amounts of LTE data traffic over their broadband access network?
- Why should a customer agree to subsidize the carrier and allow the latter to use his power, space etc.? The customer would expect a rebate which weakens the business case.