Comments on: My DEMO Rant and 5 Cool Products http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:37:04 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: dave http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898891 dave Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:37:38 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898891 <p>i'm quite intrigued by infovell and eagerly await their beta launch later this month...totally agree on adwords as a business model, that's depressing...</p> i’m quite intrigued by infovell and eagerly await their beta launch later this month…totally agree on adwords as a business model, that’s depressing…

]]> By: Stacey Higginbotham http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898769 Stacey Higginbotham Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:30:06 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898769 <p>@Wolke, yes, but the marketing officer said they aren't licensing or selling the underlying plastic electronics, and instead plan to make their own devices. That's my issue with them.</p> @Wolke, yes, but the marketing officer said they aren’t licensing or selling the underlying plastic electronics, and instead plan to make their own devices. That’s my issue with them.

]]> By: Wolke Snow http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898751 Wolke Snow Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:35:27 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898751 <p>AFAIK Plastic Logic make the <em>logic</em> chips replacing the silicon chip that power the device. The screen is made by e-ink, as in the Amazon Kindle and the similar Sony Reader.</p> <p>Sources: 1. "The reader incorporates E Ink technology for great readability and features low power consumption and long battery life." (http://www.plasticlogic.com/company.html)</p> <ol> <li><p>"The Plastic Logic approach solves the critical issue in manufacturing high resolution transistor arrays on flexible plastic substrates by using a low temperature process without mask alignment. The process, much simpler than conventional amorphous silicon processes,"... (http://www.plasticlogic.com/product.html)</p></li> <li><p>http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Biegsamer-E-Reader--/meldung/115738 (in German)</p></li> </ol> <p>@Brett: e-ink (http://www.eink.com/) is in that display device business, but since the displays are black and white, don't update fast, and use power <em>only when</em> refreshing, they are not ideal for dynamic displays. Any Flash ad will ruin the battery of an e-ink web reader.</p> AFAIK Plastic Logic make the logic chips replacing the silicon chip that power the device. The screen is made by e-ink, as in the Amazon Kindle and the similar Sony Reader.

Sources: 1. “The reader incorporates E Ink technology for great readability and features low power consumption and long battery life.” (http://www.plasticlogic.com/company.html)

  1. “The Plastic Logic approach solves the critical issue in manufacturing high resolution transistor arrays on flexible plastic substrates by using a low temperature process without mask alignment. The process, much simpler than conventional amorphous silicon processes,”… (http://www.plasticlogic.com/product.html)

  2. http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Biegsamer-E-Reader–/meldung/115738 (in German)

@Brett: e-ink (http://www.eink.com/) is in that display device business, but since the displays are black and white, don’t update fast, and use power only when refreshing, they are not ideal for dynamic displays. Any Flash ad will ruin the battery of an e-ink web reader.

]]> By: Jeremy http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898749 Jeremy Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:40 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898749 <p>@austinandrew - I agree with you, except I'd say it's only a cop out if it turns into a long term strategy. But even then, for some categories, it's hard to beat Adsense's CPM per pixel.</p> @austinandrew – I agree with you, except I’d say it’s only a cop out if it turns into a long term strategy. But even then, for some categories, it’s hard to beat Adsense’s CPM per pixel.

]]> By: austinandrew http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898738 austinandrew Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:25:48 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898738 <p>There's a big distinction between Adsense and an ad-supported model.</p> <p>Adsense is something anyone can use. There are no barriers to using it. An ad-supported model that involves direct advertisers, like GigaOm, is very different.</p> <p>For the vast majority of businesses, "Adsense" is not a viable business model. It's basically saying "we hope to get a lot of page views and make a few bucks per CPM". It's a cop-out.</p> <p>I make plenty of money from Adsense, but I'd never tell anyone my business model was Adsense. As soon as you get any level of traffic our clout, especially for a niche topic, it makes sense to go with direct advertising.</p> There’s a big distinction between Adsense and an ad-supported model.

Adsense is something anyone can use. There are no barriers to using it. An ad-supported model that involves direct advertisers, like GigaOm, is very different.

For the vast majority of businesses, “Adsense” is not a viable business model. It’s basically saying “we hope to get a lot of page views and make a few bucks per CPM”. It’s a cop-out.

I make plenty of money from Adsense, but I’d never tell anyone my business model was Adsense. As soon as you get any level of traffic our clout, especially for a niche topic, it makes sense to go with direct advertising.

]]> By: Chetan http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898731 Chetan Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:36:52 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898731 <p>I agree with Jeremy. 7 of the 20 India specific Social Networks rely on AdSense. I know a couple more startups who are getting substantial revenue out of it to run operations. I have been a Webmaster for a portal whose earning was in six figures in INR every month. AdSense also makes sense if you are planning to test the water and don't want to burn a deep hole in your pocket.</p> <p>AdSense also happens to be the best advertising platform. Is there any other Context Sensitive Advertising platform as effective as AdSense ?</p> I agree with Jeremy. 7 of the 20 India specific Social Networks rely on AdSense. I know a couple more startups who are getting substantial revenue out of it to run operations. I have been a Webmaster for a portal whose earning was in six figures in INR every month. AdSense also makes sense if you are planning to test the water and don’t want to burn a deep hole in your pocket.

AdSense also happens to be the best advertising platform. Is there any other Context Sensitive Advertising platform as effective as AdSense ?

]]> By: Jeremy http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898722 Jeremy Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:20:14 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898722 <p>Hmm, Stacey, we'll have to disagree on this one.</p> <p>I don't think Adsense automatically means the business can only "provide a decent living for a small company or one person." There are a decent number of SEO-UGC-Adsense sites that could support 50+ employees (though they usually don't need to staff at that level).</p> <p>Also, you seem to be using Adsense as a proxy for a general ad-based model. Doesn't GigaOM operate the same way?</p> <p>Look, I'm not saying an ad-based model makes sense in 99% of cases. But under certain circumstances like SEO+UGC, it works beautifully.</p> <p>And of course, depending on the niche, you'll cap out, so then you have to turn it into a horizontally-scaling model which is what co's like Internet Brands and Demand Media are doing. I can give you more insight sometime if you're interested (I'll be at the High Tech Happy Hour if you want to chat).</p> Hmm, Stacey, we’ll have to disagree on this one.

I don’t think Adsense automatically means the business can only “provide a decent living for a small company or one person.” There are a decent number of SEO-UGC-Adsense sites that could support 50+ employees (though they usually don’t need to staff at that level).

Also, you seem to be using Adsense as a proxy for a general ad-based model. Doesn’t GigaOM operate the same way?

Look, I’m not saying an ad-based model makes sense in 99% of cases. But under certain circumstances like SEO+UGC, it works beautifully.

And of course, depending on the niche, you’ll cap out, so then you have to turn it into a horizontally-scaling model which is what co’s like Internet Brands and Demand Media are doing. I can give you more insight sometime if you’re interested (I’ll be at the High Tech Happy Hour if you want to chat).

]]> By: Stacey Higginbotham http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898716 Stacey Higginbotham Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:23:19 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898716 <p>David, good point and Jeremy nice catch. You're right about AdSense providing a decent living for a small company or one person, but I'm thinking about building businesses that will grow to employ other people. I have a lot of thoughts on this type of business and how it relates to the rest of the startup world that I should probably try to articulate.</p> David, good point and Jeremy nice catch. You’re right about AdSense providing a decent living for a small company or one person, but I’m thinking about building businesses that will grow to employ other people. I have a lot of thoughts on this type of business and how it relates to the rest of the startup world that I should probably try to articulate.

]]> By: Shai Berger http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898690 Shai Berger Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:21 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898690 <p>"I love this statement, and would love to see an entire dedicated to just this."</p> <p>Tom Evslin puts it well: Should Your New Web Business be Ad-Supported? http://blog.tomevslin.com/2008/08/should-your-new.html</p> <p>"...Google is consuming most of the free oxygen in the ad-supported cave."</p> “I love this statement, and would love to see an entire dedicated to just this.”

Tom Evslin puts it well: Should Your New Web Business be Ad-Supported? http://blog.tomevslin.com/2008/08/should-your-new.html

“…Google is consuming most of the free oxygen in the ad-supported cave.”

]]> By: Brett http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898674 Brett Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:50:22 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898674 <p>Plastic Logic looks brilliant! Agree that they shouldn't restrict themselves to the plastic reader model - at an OEM or module level it could become the next LCD display (old, monochrome, 4 lines).</p> Plastic Logic looks brilliant! Agree that they shouldn’t restrict themselves to the plastic reader model – at an OEM or module level it could become the next LCD display (old, monochrome, 4 lines).

]]> By: David Ulevitch http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898666 David Ulevitch Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:22:54 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898666 <p>Fusion I/O is awesome and blazingly fast. But it's not plug and play, nor can you jam a box full of 'em, yet. You need to be using a journaled filesystem and a well-tuned application.</p> Fusion I/O is awesome and blazingly fast. But it’s not plug and play, nor can you jam a box full of ‘em, yet. You need to be using a journaled filesystem and a well-tuned application.

]]> By: Jeremy http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898664 Jeremy Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:07:22 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898664 <p>Adwords may not be a business model, but Adsense is (Adwords is a platform for advertisers, not publishers).</p> <p>But seriously, you can make money (and exit) on Adsense.</p> <p>Take a look at the sites being bought up by Demand Media, IAC, Internet Brands, Specific Media, and AtomicOnline. A lot of these sites make the majority of their money from Adsense.</p> <p>The key is the you have to get a ton of traffic and content for free, otherwise the cost side of the equation doesn't work. Your options: SEO and UGC.</p> <p>Also, it helps to be in a niche market, ideally where the site deals with some sort of commerce activity or a really specific demographic and the avg CPMs are $5+ (not the sub $1 world Facebook/Myspace/Youtube live in).</p> <p>So yes, Adsense + high startup costs/cost structure is a broken model. However, Niche+Commerce+Adsense+SEO+UGC = valid business model. Unfortunately, it's not one that investors should put money in until some/all of those pieces are proven (and of course by that point, why do you even need investors?!).</p> Adwords may not be a business model, but Adsense is (Adwords is a platform for advertisers, not publishers).

But seriously, you can make money (and exit) on Adsense.

Take a look at the sites being bought up by Demand Media, IAC, Internet Brands, Specific Media, and AtomicOnline. A lot of these sites make the majority of their money from Adsense.

The key is the you have to get a ton of traffic and content for free, otherwise the cost side of the equation doesn’t work. Your options: SEO and UGC.

Also, it helps to be in a niche market, ideally where the site deals with some sort of commerce activity or a really specific demographic and the avg CPMs are $5+ (not the sub $1 world Facebook/Myspace/Youtube live in).

So yes, Adsense + high startup costs/cost structure is a broken model. However, Niche+Commerce+Adsense+SEO+UGC = valid business model. Unfortunately, it’s not one that investors should put money in until some/all of those pieces are proven (and of course by that point, why do you even need investors?!).

]]> By: rloughery http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898659 rloughery Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:13:41 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898659 <p>Depends what you mean by business model... if you mean VC backed... I agree. But for a small company - AdWords can pay the bills.</p> Depends what you mean by business model… if you mean VC backed… I agree. But for a small company – AdWords can pay the bills.

]]> By: Amit http://gigaom.com/2008/09/09/my-demo-rant-and-5-cool-products/#comment-898656 Amit Wed, 10 Sep 2008 04:40:37 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=20527#comment-898656 <p>"I’d like to point out for the umpteenth time that Google AdWords isn’t a business model."</p> <p>I love this statement, and would love to see an entire dedicated to just this. Several people come up to me with start up ideas where the only source of revenue is ads. I can't seem to convince them the difficulty in sustaining operations based off of ads - especially in sites with constantly changing data.</p> “I’d like to point out for the umpteenth time that Google AdWords isn’t a business model.”

I love this statement, and would love to see an entire dedicated to just this. Several people come up to me with start up ideas where the only source of revenue is ads. I can’t seem to convince them the difficulty in sustaining operations based off of ads – especially in sites with constantly changing data.

]]>