Comments on: On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:24:59 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: The Burgeoning Openly Owned Web » links for 2008-06-29 http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-886223 The Burgeoning Openly Owned Web » links for 2008-06-29 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:08:02 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-886223 [...] On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon - GigaOM Useful biz-oriented backgound info on cloud driving forces (tags: cloud saas opinion) [...] [...] On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon – GigaOM Useful biz-oriented backgound info on cloud driving forces (tags: cloud saas opinion) [...]

]]> By: Cloud Computing and Economies of Scale « It’s in the Cloud http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-885536 Cloud Computing and Economies of Scale « It’s in the Cloud Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:07:35 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-885536 [...] There was a recent post on GigaOm (a daily must read for me) by Geva Perry titled “On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon”.   As you might expect, the main topic of the post is cloud [...] [...] There was a recent post on GigaOm (a daily must read for me) by Geva Perry titled “On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon”.   As you might expect, the main topic of the post is cloud [...]

]]> By: Ranjit Nayak http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-885209 Ranjit Nayak Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:03:57 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-885209 Geva, The ideas you introduce are not new to a very old industry - the electric utilities. They use centralized power generation plants which meet the dynamic demands of several users. However, I have always wondered how cloud computing is different from utility computing which seems to have disappeared into oblivion? Grid computing is another concept which has fallen by the wayside. Fortunately there are some real cloud computing successes demonstrated by Google's email and search services as well as Amazon's elastic cloud. Interestingly the pay per use definition has not yet been fully embraced by software providers. Eventually, economics and user willingness to change will decide the fate of cloud computing. Ranjit Nayak Geva,

The ideas you introduce are not new to a very old industry – the electric utilities. They use centralized power generation plants which meet the dynamic demands of several users.

However, I have always wondered how cloud computing is different from utility computing which seems to have disappeared into oblivion? Grid computing is another concept which has fallen by the wayside.

Fortunately there are some real cloud computing successes demonstrated by Google’s email and search services as well as Amazon’s elastic cloud. Interestingly the pay per use definition has not yet been fully embraced by software providers.

Eventually, economics and user willingness to change will decide the fate of cloud computing.

Ranjit Nayak

]]> By: Bookmarks am 23.06.2008 | TQUWiki http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-885173 Bookmarks am 23.06.2008 | TQUWiki Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:36:36 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-885173 [...] On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon The main value proposition of cloud computing is better economics, that it’s cheaper to rent hardware, software platforms and applications (via a per-usage or subscription model) than it is to buy, build and maintain them in the corporate data center. B (Stichworte: economies_of_scale cloud_computing) [...] [...] On Clouds, the Sun and the Moon The main value proposition of cloud computing is better economics, that it’s cheaper to rent hardware, software platforms and applications (via a per-usage or subscription model) than it is to buy, build and maintain them in the corporate data center. B (Stichworte: economies_of_scale cloud_computing) [...]

]]> By: Geva Perry http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-885091 Geva Perry Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:10:38 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-885091 Vix -- Not only will it happen, it's already happening, with the exception of follow-the-moon, which as far as I know is still just an idea. However, I think that given power and colling costs these days, it's an idea that will be seriously looked at. I agree with you that bandwidth is an issue to consider. Some application are very sensitive to latency, some are not sensitive at all. For example, many applications already being deployed on clouds are batch computational applications. Such applications are not sensitive to latency. You upload the data and the computational model once, run it on the cloud (for 40 minutes or 40 hours)and get the results at the end. Vix —

Not only will it happen, it’s already happening, with the exception of follow-the-moon, which as far as I know is still just an idea. However, I think that given power and colling costs these days, it’s an idea that will be seriously looked at.

I agree with you that bandwidth is an issue to consider. Some application are very sensitive to latency, some are not sensitive at all. For example, many applications already being deployed on clouds are batch computational applications. Such applications are not sensitive to latency. You upload the data and the computational model once, run it on the cloud (for 40 minutes or 40 hours)and get the results at the end.

]]> By: Vix http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-885073 Vix Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:58:15 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-885073 Geva: We need to factor in the cabling required to make the global cloud work. Using resources from a part of the world will mean a lot of latency. Also an "global" cloud means that it is very vulnerable to threats. We can even protect ourselves agains bots, spam an other "simpler" nasties. How are we ever going to protect this cloud against hackers, terrorists, anarchists and just about anyone who want to take a pick-axe and hack some cable. Good thought experiments, but it ain't gonna happen. Geva: We need to factor in the cabling required to make the global cloud work. Using resources from a part of the world will mean a lot of latency. Also an “global” cloud means that it is very vulnerable to threats. We can even protect ourselves agains bots, spam an other “simpler” nasties. How are we ever going to protect this cloud against hackers, terrorists, anarchists and just about anyone who want to take a pick-axe and hack some cable.

Good thought experiments, but it ain’t gonna happen.

]]> By: Geva Perry http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-884927 Geva Perry Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:10:45 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-884927 James -- Thanks for this. I actually intentionally left this issue out, as I am planning a separate post on it (I had a tight word limit). I agree with your observation and I think there are some other interesting angles to the legal/political/compliance issue, which I hope to write about soon. James — Thanks for this. I actually intentionally left this issue out, as I am planning a separate post on it (I had a tight word limit). I agree with your observation and I think there are some other interesting angles to the legal/political/compliance issue, which I hope to write about soon.

]]> By: James Urquhart http://gigaom.com/2008/06/21/on-clouds-the-sun-and-the-moon/#comment-884863 James Urquhart Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:32:08 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=13872#comment-884863 Geva, you missed one obvious economic influence on computing: the legal and regulatory environment. Several days ago, <a href="http://www.roughtype.com/index.php" rel="nofollow">Nick Carr</a> referenced a post by <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7421099.stm" rel="nofollow">Bill Thompson</a> highlighting the elephant in the room: that cloud computing runs on hardware that is physically located in some geography with its own political and legislative realities. This lead me to explore a new theory: <a href="http://blog.jamesurquhart.com/2008/06/follow-law-computing.html" rel="nofollow">Follow the Law computing</a>. The theory goes like this: I think many organizations (and "organizations") are going to look at whether there are strong economic incentives to move computing load to where they can get the most favorable legal system. The banking industries key clearing house for international inter-bank transations, SWIFT, has already moved its computing to Switzerland in order to escape the hazards of the Patriot Act. We all know that gambling sites have almoste entirely moved off shore. With <a href="http://www.profy.com/2008/05/25/cloudcomputingpolitics/" rel="nofollow">Canada refusing to allow public applications to run in the US</a>, it seems like computing is starting to follow the law well before follow the sun or moon become a reality. Geva, you missed one obvious economic influence on computing: the legal and regulatory environment. Several days ago, Nick Carr referenced a post by Bill Thompson highlighting the elephant in the room: that cloud computing runs on hardware that is physically located in some geography with its own political and legislative realities. This lead me to explore a new theory: Follow the Law computing.

The theory goes like this: I think many organizations (and “organizations”) are going to look at whether there are strong economic incentives to move computing load to where they can get the most favorable legal system. The banking industries key clearing house for international inter-bank transations, SWIFT, has already moved its computing to Switzerland in order to escape the hazards of the Patriot Act. We all know that gambling sites have almoste entirely moved off shore. With Canada refusing to allow public applications to run in the US, it seems like computing is starting to follow the law well before follow the sun or moon become a reality.

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