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	<title>Comments on: In the HuddleChat Debacle, a Lesson for Web 2.0 Startups</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/</link>
	<description>The Business of Technology</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Matthew Quirion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Does Google Have A Problem With 37 Signals?</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-871071</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Quirion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Does Google Have A Problem With 37 Signals?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-871071</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] the way, it&#8217;s been voiced by others, but taking Huddle Chat down was ridiculous.  I suppose it goes with the whole, &#8220;Don&#8217;t [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the way, it&#8217;s been voiced by others, but taking Huddle Chat down was ridiculous.  I suppose it goes with the whole, &#8220;Don&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tech Verdict &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870757</link>
		<dc:creator>Tech Verdict &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870757</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] about the situation, and shortly thereafter Google pulled the app down. As Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about the situation, and shortly thereafter Google pulled the app down. As Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The soft underbelly of Web 2.0 &#124; Technovia</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870690</link>
		<dc:creator>The soft underbelly of Web 2.0 &#124; Technovia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870690</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] In the HuddleChat Debacle, a Lesson for Web 2.0 Startups - GigaOM &#8220;More importantly, what HuddleChat did was expose the soft underbelly of Web 2.0 applications — and by extension, many of the Web 2.0 startups. “Hi, a couple of our colleagues wrote HuddleChat in their spare time as a sample application for other developers to demonstrate the power and flexibility of Google App Engine,” is how the Google Apps Engine team describe their effort. Like Campfire, any Web 2.0 app can be easily replicated by a developers in his/her spare time.&#8221; [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In the HuddleChat Debacle, a Lesson for Web 2.0 Startups - GigaOM &#8220;More importantly, what HuddleChat did was expose the soft underbelly of Web 2.0 applications — and by extension, many of the Web 2.0 startups. “Hi, a couple of our colleagues wrote HuddleChat in their spare time as a sample application for other developers to demonstrate the power and flexibility of Google App Engine,” is how the Google Apps Engine team describe their effort. Like Campfire, any Web 2.0 app can be easily replicated by a developers in his/her spare time.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aswath</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870621</link>
		<dc:creator>Aswath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870621</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Om:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I might have jumped to a conclusion, but I didn't miss the point of your story. I have no basis to know that 37Signal would have been satisfied with open acknowledgement. I took your word for it. I was suggesting that having recognized their mistake, Google took a self punitive action, which tacitly recognized 37 Signal's contribution.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I am personally aware that how easy it is for an idea to be ripped. That was my point as evidenced by a recent post in GigaOm. I want you to recognize, even if you fail to recall, the idea was shared with the principals during Nov/Dec 2005, a prototype was shown a few months later, invitation based trial was rolled out a year later and the site is operational under open registration since last October. But the post talked as if a new idea is under development. Given the nature of technology, I am willing to settle for mere recognition. Even that is not forthcoming. For me that is the irony of this post. It is not clear whether you recognize this or not.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Om:</p>
<p>I might have jumped to a conclusion, but I didn&#8217;t miss the point of your story. I have no basis to know that 37Signal would have been satisfied with open acknowledgement. I took your word for it. I was suggesting that having recognized their mistake, Google took a self punitive action, which tacitly recognized 37 Signal&#8217;s contribution.</p>
<p>I am personally aware that how easy it is for an idea to be ripped. That was my point as evidenced by a recent post in GigaOm. I want you to recognize, even if you fail to recall, the idea was shared with the principals during Nov/Dec 2005, a prototype was shown a few months later, invitation based trial was rolled out a year later and the site is operational under open registration since last October. But the post talked as if a new idea is under development. Given the nature of technology, I am willing to settle for mere recognition. Even that is not forthcoming. For me that is the irony of this post. It is not clear whether you recognize this or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat - BuzzYA!</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870596</link>
		<dc:creator>Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat - BuzzYA!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870596</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MP3 and Digital Media Players blog &#187; Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870595</link>
		<dc:creator>MP3 and Digital Media Players blog &#187; Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870595</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tech Scoop - Hot Technology Gossip &#187; Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870594</link>
		<dc:creator>Tech Scoop - Hot Technology Gossip &#187; Much Ado About Nothing: The Rise And Fall Of HuddleChat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870594</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Om Malik has pointed out, this is all a bit ridiculous. AJAX/Comet chat is a fairly simple feature to implement. If my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simmons</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870580</link>
		<dc:creator>Simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870580</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree that imitation is commonplace and I don't really have a problem with Google making a Campfire knock-off.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, I think everyone is missing the point of why Google took down HuddleChat.  Google said it themselves: "...rather than divert attention from Google App Engine itself, we thought it better to just take HuddleChat down."&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What makes a juicier story -- a new webapp platform, or "Google steals ideas from small companies!!!"?  With the media's love of sensationalism, they'd be squeezing the HuddleChat story for weeks, instead of reporting on App Engine.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that imitation is commonplace and I don&#8217;t really have a problem with Google making a Campfire knock-off.</p>
<p>However, I think everyone is missing the point of why Google took down HuddleChat.  Google said it themselves: &#8220;&#8230;rather than divert attention from Google App Engine itself, we thought it better to just take HuddleChat down.&#8221;</p>
<p>What makes a juicier story &#8212; a new webapp platform, or &#8220;Google steals ideas from small companies!!!&#8221;?  With the media&#8217;s love of sensationalism, they&#8217;d be squeezing the HuddleChat story for weeks, instead of reporting on App Engine.</p>
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		<title>By: David Mullings</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870566</link>
		<dc:creator>David Mullings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870566</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Om, I agree that this is the canary in the mine for web 2.0 companies to wake up and realize that a business must have some real barriers to entry in order to succeed in the long term and you rightly point out that one of those is a large community base.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This web 2.0 era is too similar to the dot-com boom in the 90's where common business sense was thrown out the door for so many ventures. That is the real moral of the story but too many people are focusing on the smaller picture.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Om, I agree that this is the canary in the mine for web 2.0 companies to wake up and realize that a business must have some real barriers to entry in order to succeed in the long term and you rightly point out that one of those is a large community base.</p>
<p>This web 2.0 era is too similar to the dot-com boom in the 90&#8217;s where common business sense was thrown out the door for so many ventures. That is the real moral of the story but too many people are focusing on the smaller picture.</p>
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		<title>By: TimB.</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870565</link>
		<dc:creator>TimB.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870565</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Om, your first and second paragraphs contradict one another. I am a huge fan of 37Signals, but what "work' are we acknowledging exactly?  How &lt;em&gt;would&lt;/em&gt; one visually distinguish a web-based chat application. 37Signals would do better to focus their attention on the multiple Ruby-based look-alike task managers out there competing against Backpack.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Om, your first and second paragraphs contradict one another. I am a huge fan of 37Signals, but what &#8220;work&#8217; are we acknowledging exactly?  How <em>would</em> one visually distinguish a web-based chat application. 37Signals would do better to focus their attention on the multiple Ruby-based look-alike task managers out there competing against Backpack.</p>
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		<title>By: Om Malik</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870555</link>
		<dc:creator>Om Malik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870555</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@ Aswath,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Clearly you missed the point. The point is that they should have acknowledged the work of 37Signals. Did you miss that bit before jumping to conclusions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;What the folks from Google should have done was acknowledge 37signals for the design and UI, and thanked them for their vision. End of story. Why? Because 37signals is a company that adheres to the spirit of sharing and thanking folks who inspire them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The big issue here is not that Google built a copy cat and then pulled it. The big problem for all little companies is that their ideas are so easily rippable. This wasn't the case in non-consumer web tech start-ups where there was something to defend. In this case, why shouldn't Google offer something and let the market decide. In my opinion, the market always does decide.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;YouTube won over Google Video and Google had to pay $1.6 billion to buy simplicity.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Aswath,</p>
<p>Clearly you missed the point. The point is that they should have acknowledged the work of 37Signals. Did you miss that bit before jumping to conclusions.</p>
<blockquote><p>What the folks from Google should have done was acknowledge 37signals for the design and UI, and thanked them for their vision. End of story. Why? Because 37signals is a company that adheres to the spirit of sharing and thanking folks who inspire them.</p></blockquote>
<p>The big issue here is not that Google built a copy cat and then pulled it. The big problem for all little companies is that their ideas are so easily rippable. This wasn&#8217;t the case in non-consumer web tech start-ups where there was something to defend. In this case, why shouldn&#8217;t Google offer something and let the market decide. In my opinion, the market always does decide.</p>
<p>YouTube won over Google Video and Google had to pay $1.6 billion to buy simplicity.</p>
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		<title>By: Aswath</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870520</link>
		<dc:creator>Aswath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870520</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This dismissive position is consistent with the industry prevalent thinking. One can not imagine that academic world will tolerate non-attributing culture. Chat may have been there before. Supposing they were indeed inspired by 37 Signals' UI. Many people seem to agree that they are not patentable. But it would have been a nice gesture to openly recognize that. Especially when you are a big banana.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Supposing you are talking about turning the concept of address book on its head when there is an implementation of it already. Isn't it fair to recognize that implementation? Such a misstep will not be tolerated in the publishing world. For sure it has happened before in the business world. But Internet is supposed to be different. Google is to be commended that they punished themselves to the extreme for a "small" misstep. I only wish GigaOm follows that lead.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This dismissive position is consistent with the industry prevalent thinking. One can not imagine that academic world will tolerate non-attributing culture. Chat may have been there before. Supposing they were indeed inspired by 37 Signals&#8217; UI. Many people seem to agree that they are not patentable. But it would have been a nice gesture to openly recognize that. Especially when you are a big banana.</p>
<p>Supposing you are talking about turning the concept of address book on its head when there is an implementation of it already. Isn&#8217;t it fair to recognize that implementation? Such a misstep will not be tolerated in the publishing world. For sure it has happened before in the business world. But Internet is supposed to be different. Google is to be commended that they punished themselves to the extreme for a &#8220;small&#8221; misstep. I only wish GigaOm follows that lead.</p>
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		<title>By: Nitin Nanivadekar</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870490</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitin Nanivadekar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870490</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;With a zillions of PhDs that Google have, Can they be different than a 10-odd army?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Why does Google need an imitation art?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;HuddleChat puts Google in a wrong corner, not because of choosing imitation but not putting enough innovation in their first Enterprise showcase.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With a zillions of PhDs that Google have, Can they be different than a 10-odd army?</p>
<p>Why does Google need an imitation art?</p>
<p>HuddleChat puts Google in a wrong corner, not because of choosing imitation but not putting enough innovation in their first Enterprise showcase.</p>
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		<title>By: Om Malik</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870485</link>
		<dc:creator>Om Malik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870485</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@ Jeffrey,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You are being ironic, I hope :-)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jeffrey,</p>
<p>You are being ironic, I hope :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey McManus</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870484</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey McManus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870484</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why shouldn't Google use its dominance to crush every Web 2.0 product? Simple, for the same reason that Microsoft shouldn't have used its dominance to crush Netscape.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why shouldn&#8217;t Google use its dominance to crush every Web 2.0 product? Simple, for the same reason that Microsoft shouldn&#8217;t have used its dominance to crush Netscape.</p>
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		<title>By: Om Malik</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/04/09/in-the-huddlechat-debacle-a-lesson-for-web-20-startups/#comment-870479</link>
		<dc:creator>Om Malik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.wordpress.com/?p=12097#comment-870479</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@ Adnan&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;in continuing "agree" chain, I agree. But I think the problem is bigger than just Huddle Chat. I think this is going to happen more and more often in the near future.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Adnan</p>
<p>in continuing &#8220;agree&#8221; chain, I agree. But I think the problem is bigger than just Huddle Chat. I think this is going to happen more and more often in the near future.</p>
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