Comments on: Here Comes Trouble: A Social Directory http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:58:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Social Communications with purpose @ Power of Communities http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-947107 Social Communications with purpose @ Power of Communities Wed, 27 May 2009 06:52:40 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-947107 <p>[...] a recent post on GigaOm Daniel Berninger discusses the decline of Yellow & White pages and how a possible internet replacement could be [...]</p> [...] a recent post on GigaOm Daniel Berninger discusses the decline of Yellow & White pages and how a possible internet replacement could be [...]

]]> By: reader http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-886238 reader Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:55:37 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-886238 <p>It seems that many of you may not have your statistics correct when it comes to yellow page usage and the importance of internet vs the printed product. In my experience those individuals that could be classified as "internet junkies" have a great misconception of how EVERYONE is now plugging into the internet. Research actually shows that Yellow Page usage has stayed about the same in the last five years. The decline came when the internet/Google really started to boom. In the blogs most of the focus for discussion has been on the large phone companies that mainly focus on large cities, coincidently those are the areas where the internet is most frequently used. The smaller independent phone book publishers which service smaller cities and towns have seen growths in their markets. In smaller areas the majority do not find the internet as necessary seeing how small businesses are still forced to compete against large national/international businesses on the web. Consequently the consumers in these smaller areas may have to search through several pages to find the specific business they where looking for- and then again they may not find that business at all! So an hour or more on the internet or ten minutes in the phone book? It is true the purpose of Yellow Pages is to connect buyers to sellers... not so much vice-versa. Hence why we see more phone books without the residential(white) listings. Finding a good online solution is very difficult, it was mentioned how many different lines of communication there are anymore and finding a source that accurately lists all those communication forms is very difficult. That is not the only problem- ensuring the business owner that the majority of the consumers in his/her buying radius are going to hop online and all tune into that great social directory with all of these wonderful listings is unlikely! Not to mention who will be policing this database maintained by the public? What about unforeseen things such as a business closing it doors or someone dying... who is going to update or omit their contact information? There are a lot of hurdles to overcome- I feel there is and will be a solution- but I do not feel a social directory is THE solution. It will just be another muddied attempt, unless you can maintain the integrity of what yellow pages not only does for businesses and consumers but what it does for communities as a whole. People do still take pride in their communities and take pride in supporting local business- you have to find a solution that ties the community together and still connects them to the world!</p> It seems that many of you may not have your statistics correct when it comes to yellow page usage and the importance of internet vs the printed product. In my experience those individuals that could be classified as “internet junkies” have a great misconception of how EVERYONE is now plugging into the internet. Research actually shows that Yellow Page usage has stayed about the same in the last five years. The decline came when the internet/Google really started to boom. In the blogs most of the focus for discussion has been on the large phone companies that mainly focus on large cities, coincidently those are the areas where the internet is most frequently used. The smaller independent phone book publishers which service smaller cities and towns have seen growths in their markets. In smaller areas the majority do not find the internet as necessary seeing how small businesses are still forced to compete against large national/international businesses on the web. Consequently the consumers in these smaller areas may have to search through several pages to find the specific business they where looking for- and then again they may not find that business at all! So an hour or more on the internet or ten minutes in the phone book? It is true the purpose of Yellow Pages is to connect buyers to sellers… not so much vice-versa. Hence why we see more phone books without the residential(white) listings. Finding a good online solution is very difficult, it was mentioned how many different lines of communication there are anymore and finding a source that accurately lists all those communication forms is very difficult. That is not the only problem- ensuring the business owner that the majority of the consumers in his/her buying radius are going to hop online and all tune into that great social directory with all of these wonderful listings is unlikely! Not to mention who will be policing this database maintained by the public? What about unforeseen things such as a business closing it doors or someone dying… who is going to update or omit their contact information? There are a lot of hurdles to overcome- I feel there is and will be a solution- but I do not feel a social directory is THE solution. It will just be another muddied attempt, unless you can maintain the integrity of what yellow pages not only does for businesses and consumers but what it does for communities as a whole. People do still take pride in their communities and take pride in supporting local business- you have to find a solution that ties the community together and still connects them to the world!

]]> By: cellity - tune your phone - Company Blog » Blog Archiv » Voice and Text Apps on Facebook http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-875354 cellity - tune your phone - Company Blog » Blog Archiv » Voice and Text Apps on Facebook Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:15:46 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-875354 <p>[...] as a communications hub. Oms columnist Daniel Berninger has eloquently made an argument for a social directory that uses Facebook and other social networks to break away from the current paradigm of numeric phone [...]</p> [...] as a communications hub. Oms columnist Daniel Berninger has eloquently made an argument for a social directory that uses Facebook and other social networks to break away from the current paradigm of numeric phone [...]

]]> By: On Facebook, Many SMS Apps Find Little Use - GigaOM http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-872127 On Facebook, Many SMS Apps Find Little Use - GigaOM Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:06:51 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-872127 <p>[...] as a communications hub. Our columnist Daniel Berninger has eloquently made an argument for a social directory that uses Facebook and other social networks to break away from the current paradigm of numeric phone [...]</p> [...] as a communications hub. Our columnist Daniel Berninger has eloquently made an argument for a social directory that uses Facebook and other social networks to break away from the current paradigm of numeric phone [...]

]]> By: angryandconfused http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-870178 angryandconfused Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:25:23 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-870178 <p>Internet replacements for DA have been around for years. free411.com (or rather its toll-free line) predate goog-411 by miles. It's ironic that suddenly everyone's taken notice just because google started doing it, now successful businesses have to put up sweepstakes contests or airline ticket giveaways (free411 just started a "411 day" promo) to keep their profile up in the face of unwarranted Google-mania.</p> Internet replacements for DA have been around for years. free411.com (or rather its toll-free line) predate goog-411 by miles. It’s ironic that suddenly everyone’s taken notice just because google started doing it, now successful businesses have to put up sweepstakes contests or airline ticket giveaways (free411 just started a “411 day” promo) to keep their profile up in the face of unwarranted Google-mania.

]]> By: Social Communications with purpose » The Power of Communities http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-869114 Social Communications with purpose » The Power of Communities Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:45:58 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-869114 <p>[...] a recent post on GigaOm Daniel Berninger discusses the decline of Yellow & White pages and how a possible internet replacement could be [...]</p> [...] a recent post on GigaOm Daniel Berninger discusses the decline of Yellow & White pages and how a possible internet replacement could be [...]

]]> By: The Law of Mobility » Blog Archive » Indicators: Week of 3/30/08 http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-869095 The Law of Mobility » Blog Archive » Indicators: Week of 3/30/08 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:01:57 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-869095 <p>[...] Phone book publisher loses 95% of market cap [...]</p> [...] Phone book publisher loses 95% of market cap [...]

]]> By: sandip more http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868845 sandip more Wed, 02 Apr 2008 06:02:48 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868845 <p>well written post!! although credibility is big factor as such kind of service will be storing and serving sensitive data like emailids, phonenumbers. but that credibility can be offered by adding social networking aspect. so even innovative startup can really take this up as it involves solving some good technical as well as bussiness related problems in innovative way.</p> well written post!! although credibility is big factor as such kind of service will be storing and serving sensitive data like emailids, phonenumbers. but that credibility can be offered by adding social networking aspect. so even innovative startup can really take this up as it involves solving some good technical as well as bussiness related problems in innovative way.

]]> By: Aswath http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868604 Aswath Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:50:27 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868604 <p>@Libran Lover: Two months BEFORE you penned your thoughts on Contact Management Systems, we deployed EnThinnai which includes many of the points you propose. For the past six months, the application has been open for public to try it out. Our final objective is to make that into a multi-server solution. Yes, we imagined the potential and believed enough to develop a solution. Waiting for the billions to roll in. :-)</p> @Libran Lover: Two months BEFORE you penned your thoughts on Contact Management Systems, we deployed EnThinnai which includes many of the points you propose. For the past six months, the application has been open for public to try it out. Our final objective is to make that into a multi-server solution. Yes, we imagined the potential and believed enough to develop a solution. Waiting for the billions to roll in. :-)

]]> By: Max http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868460 Max Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:48:14 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868460 <p>Dan,</p> <p>I agree with and would echo most of the points you make. I also agree it is unlikely that any time soon one of the major yellow page players will focus on finding contact information for people (vs. businesses) as their mission is around connecting buyers and sellers. Lastly, I would echo the points about a "known entity" being best positioned to solve this problem as "trust" is a critical element to get people to register or allow access to their cell number, email address, IM screen name, etc.</p> <p>At WhitePages, our mission is fundamentally about solving this problem. We do it today for our 30MM+ users by providing a superior database of people's address and land lines (we have 180MM US adults in our service while a typical nationwide phone database only has ~90MM) through our simple user interface. We are currently working on extending our already successful business model ($70MM+ of profitable revenue) to address the plethora of existing and emerging contact forms you refer to.</p> <p>Stay tuned...</p> <p>Max Bardon President, WhitePages.com</p> Dan,

I agree with and would echo most of the points you make. I also agree it is unlikely that any time soon one of the major yellow page players will focus on finding contact information for people (vs. businesses) as their mission is around connecting buyers and sellers. Lastly, I would echo the points about a “known entity” being best positioned to solve this problem as “trust” is a critical element to get people to register or allow access to their cell number, email address, IM screen name, etc.

At WhitePages, our mission is fundamentally about solving this problem. We do it today for our 30MM+ users by providing a superior database of people’s address and land lines (we have 180MM US adults in our service while a typical nationwide phone database only has ~90MM) through our simple user interface. We are currently working on extending our already successful business model ($70MM+ of profitable revenue) to address the plethora of existing and emerging contact forms you refer to.

Stay tuned…

Max Bardon President, WhitePages.com

]]> By: Libran Lover http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868299 Libran Lover Mon, 31 Mar 2008 04:32:23 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868299 <p>I mooted EXACTLY this type of a contact management system almost a year ago: <a href="http://blog.libranlover.net/2007/05/contacts-management-system.html" rel="nofollow">Contacts management System</a></p> I mooted EXACTLY this type of a contact management system almost a year ago: Contacts management System

]]> By: Social Directory? | Think-Through http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868239 Social Directory? | Think-Through Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:01:53 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868239 <p>[...] http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/ [...]</p> [...] http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/ [...]

]]> By: Daniel Berninger http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868185 Daniel Berninger Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:58:50 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868185 <p>Observer,</p> <p>Agreed. I should have noted the decline runs between 4 and 6%, so it takes a while for revenue to disappear at this pace. The stock market seeks a valuation that reflects the net present value of the enterprises. This net present value may in fact be less than zero as you note the selling telco's already extracted all the value by loading these entities up with debt. Add Verizon to your list of companies playing this game. The CEO of RHD noted in interviews the issue of debt is really an issue of cash flow. Indeed, his cash flow is just barely sufficient to cover his debt service, so it will not take much longer for the slow erosion of revenue to threaten bankruptcy.</p> Observer,

Agreed. I should have noted the decline runs between 4 and 6%, so it takes a while for revenue to disappear at this pace. The stock market seeks a valuation that reflects the net present value of the enterprises. This net present value may in fact be less than zero as you note the selling telco’s already extracted all the value by loading these entities up with debt. Add Verizon to your list of companies playing this game. The CEO of RHD noted in interviews the issue of debt is really an issue of cash flow. Indeed, his cash flow is just barely sufficient to cover his debt service, so it will not take much longer for the slow erosion of revenue to threaten bankruptcy.

]]> By: nigel http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868169 nigel Sun, 30 Mar 2008 09:45:22 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868169 <p>Great Post, have to agree with Dave in order to get any kind of consumer+local business traction one of the big players (yellow Pages, SuperPages...) would need to further develop the category.</p> <p>I don't think this will happen anytime soon. I think the solution will come from some an innovative startup, perhaps partnering with a bigger player to scale at a later stage.</p> Great Post, have to agree with Dave in order to get any kind of consumer+local business traction one of the big players (yellow Pages, SuperPages…) would need to further develop the category.

I don’t think this will happen anytime soon. I think the solution will come from some an innovative startup, perhaps partnering with a bigger player to scale at a later stage.

]]> By: Albert Aimers http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868133 Albert Aimers Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:11:58 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868133 <p>Very interesting. I would very much appreciate your communities thoughts on a new financial social community that we launched that pays our users to refer other users and consume content. The following link has a short video presentation on it. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.</p> <p>http://my.wallst.net/referral/AlbertAimers/JoinForm</p> Very interesting. I would very much appreciate your communities thoughts on a new financial social community that we launched that pays our users to refer other users and consume content. The following link has a short video presentation on it. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

http://my.wallst.net/referral/AlbertAimers/JoinForm

]]> By: observer http://gigaom.com/2008/03/28/here-comes-trouble-a-social-directory/#comment-868111 observer Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:06:07 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11957#comment-868111 <p>While an interesting column with valid points, there is one critical error. It is absolutely true that the value of RHD has plummeted dramatically in the past six months. However, the price plunge isn't because people have stopped using or companies have stopped advertising in the yellow pages in droves. The paper YP business continues to drop off very slowly, in the low single digit range, annually. The problem with RHD and the other directory companies is that they were the darlings of the private equity world back a few years ago. Anxious to monetize the enormous cash flow generated by these companies, the owners, Sprint, Qwest, BT etc spun off their directories to buyers who saddled the companies with enormous amounts of debt to pay for them. Fast forward a few years and PE folks have moved on but the companies have billions of dollars of debt to refinance, in the middle of a credit crisis. It is not at all clear that the refinancing will be possible - and THAT is why the stock has dropped into the single digits. Yellow pages are not a growing business, and are sensitive to economic cycles, but the data suggests that they still have better (more data) than local merchant information than the online folks. For now, and despite the perception popular in technology centers, the economy remains a much bigger impact on growth than web. The web matters here, just not nearly as much as many seem to think.</p> While an interesting column with valid points, there is one critical error. It is absolutely true that the value of RHD has plummeted dramatically in the past six months. However, the price plunge isn’t because people have stopped using or companies have stopped advertising in the yellow pages in droves. The paper YP business continues to drop off very slowly, in the low single digit range, annually. The problem with RHD and the other directory companies is that they were the darlings of the private equity world back a few years ago. Anxious to monetize the enormous cash flow generated by these companies, the owners, Sprint, Qwest, BT etc spun off their directories to buyers who saddled the companies with enormous amounts of debt to pay for them. Fast forward a few years and PE folks have moved on but the companies have billions of dollars of debt to refinance, in the middle of a credit crisis. It is not at all clear that the refinancing will be possible – and THAT is why the stock has dropped into the single digits. Yellow pages are not a growing business, and are sensitive to economic cycles, but the data suggests that they still have better (more data) than local merchant information than the online folks. For now, and despite the perception popular in technology centers, the economy remains a much bigger impact on growth than web. The web matters here, just not nearly as much as many seem to think.

]]>