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	<title>Comments on: The Dangers of a Startup Democracy</title>
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	<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/</link>
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		<title>By: BenR</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195494</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BenR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nathan,

I have had an absolutely opposite experience. In 1994 I founded a company with 3 close friends. One left early (under his own power). Another friend joined us to replace him. We had a great run for 9 years, survived the bubble crash, and sold in 2003. We&#039;re all still friends. It wasn&#039;t easy, it required flexibility and great communication skills. But it can be done. And when it works, it&#039;s great. In those same circumstances, I&#039;d do it that way again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>I have had an absolutely opposite experience. In 1994 I founded a company with 3 close friends. One left early (under his own power). Another friend joined us to replace him. We had a great run for 9 years, survived the bubble crash, and sold in 2003. We&#8217;re all still friends. It wasn&#8217;t easy, it required flexibility and great communication skills. But it can be done. And when it works, it&#8217;s great. In those same circumstances, I&#8217;d do it that way again.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195491</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nathan, I feel your pain as I&#039;m sure anyone who has started a company can. However, don&#039;t be too quick to generalize your experience and keep in mind how bias is just as dangerous as inexperience.

Case in point, who would you start a company with if not friends? Yes, you risk the friendship but otherwise you need to both simultaneously build a relationship with the person while building a company - and as you&#039;ve seen building a company is hard enough. Just because you had a bad experience and lost a good friend doesn&#039;t mean that having friends as co-founders is a bad idea. However, you do need to be careful that you pick friends not just because they are friends, but because you share some ideas, work the same way or are complementary.

It&#039;s also possible to structure the company up front to avoid these kinds of confrontations later, which I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll do in the future. I wonder if you&#039;d have the same opinion if you&#039;d started with a different corporate structure.

Also, keep in mind that while startups shouldn&#039;t be democracies they also shouldn&#039;t be dictatorships. If your teammates (and they are teammates and not employees early on) don&#039;t feel ownership (of both the company and decisions) then it will be harder to motivate them. Delegation is one of the finer arts of management and done well you can still maintain authority while giving people the ownership that they need to stay passionate.

I&#039;m glad to hear you are having success. Good luck.

Sean]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan, I feel your pain as I&#8217;m sure anyone who has started a company can. However, don&#8217;t be too quick to generalize your experience and keep in mind how bias is just as dangerous as inexperience.</p>
<p>Case in point, who would you start a company with if not friends? Yes, you risk the friendship but otherwise you need to both simultaneously build a relationship with the person while building a company &#8211; and as you&#8217;ve seen building a company is hard enough. Just because you had a bad experience and lost a good friend doesn&#8217;t mean that having friends as co-founders is a bad idea. However, you do need to be careful that you pick friends not just because they are friends, but because you share some ideas, work the same way or are complementary.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also possible to structure the company up front to avoid these kinds of confrontations later, which I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll do in the future. I wonder if you&#8217;d have the same opinion if you&#8217;d started with a different corporate structure.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that while startups shouldn&#8217;t be democracies they also shouldn&#8217;t be dictatorships. If your teammates (and they are teammates and not employees early on) don&#8217;t feel ownership (of both the company and decisions) then it will be harder to motivate them. Delegation is one of the finer arts of management and done well you can still maintain authority while giving people the ownership that they need to stay passionate.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to hear you are having success. Good luck.</p>
<p>Sean</p>
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		<title>By: Carleen Hawn</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195492</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carleen Hawn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 06:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Daniel, that&#039;s a lot of companies in 9 years. Would you consider writing about some of your experiences for us here? best, carleen]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, that&#8217;s a lot of companies in 9 years. Would you consider writing about some of your experiences for us here? best, carleen</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Heise</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Heise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Tony 100%.
In the past 9 years I have founded 6 companies. The first was the only one in which I had a serious problem with a friend. Instead of blaming the problem on the friend issue I learned that the problem was the disaligned vision. I believe (like Tony said) that an aligned vision is the basis of a sucessfull partnership. Having learned that lesson, I continued to found companies with friends and become very good friends with the new partners that I didn&#039;t know before founding the business.
In my experience as an entrepreneur the people with whom you carry out the journey are just as (or more) important as the outcome (if there is actually one).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Tony 100%.<br />
In the past 9 years I have founded 6 companies. The first was the only one in which I had a serious problem with a friend. Instead of blaming the problem on the friend issue I learned that the problem was the disaligned vision. I believe (like Tony said) that an aligned vision is the basis of a sucessfull partnership. Having learned that lesson, I continued to found companies with friends and become very good friends with the new partners that I didn&#8217;t know before founding the business.<br />
In my experience as an entrepreneur the people with whom you carry out the journey are just as (or more) important as the outcome (if there is actually one).</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Schorr</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Schorr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[G, can you recommend any of the those assestment tests?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G, can you recommend any of the those assestment tests?</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195496</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agree with your points on not making a startup a democracy - that should be rule no. 1 for every founder.  If it is your vision - you must keep at least 2/3 of the founding ownership - everything other than vision is a commodity.  Learned the hard way myself with my own ventures.  However, there is value in bringing your friends to be part of your entrepreneurial efforts - just DON&#039;T make it a friendship venture - draw the line between business and friendship &quot;right from the start&quot; - it works really well - something I am doing with my other startups.

I would also recommend every entrepreneur to take a self assessment test - many of those out there.  Play with the test and pick every choice - to see the feedback.  Even if you answer them wrong - you will at least know what not to do.  The thing that stood out for me in one of those self-tests was a question on &quot;who would you enlist as part of a founding team&quot; with the choices being &quot;friends&quot; or &quot;outside consultants&quot;.  The right answer to this question is &quot;friends&quot;, and if you answered it as &quot;outside consultants&quot; the feedback from the test was &quot;go get a day job&quot;.

When I think about consultants (someone in general who claims to have been around the block), I am reminded of a line from the movie about Earl Long (played by Paul Newman), where through his trials he points to his cronies and says - &quot;look at them, finest bunch of Yes Men in the great state of Louisana&quot;.

My litmus test for consultants - I usually set them at the first meet - try putting up a couple of your visionary ideas - and if they do not challenge you immediately, you might as well save the coffee for someone else.  End this meeting as fast you can - they are the &quot;Yes Men&quot;.

I do work with two outsourced consulting groups - six years into the relationship.  Why did I choose them?  Becasue even at the risk of loosing my business, they challenged my RFP and told me I needed to do build it a different way - got my attention - and of course they were right!  Six years later,  they are not consultants, but a partner in the truest sense.

I love my family, but agree with you completely - keep them out - they are as I call them, &quot;the entrepreneur assassins&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with your points on not making a startup a democracy &#8211; that should be rule no. 1 for every founder.  If it is your vision &#8211; you must keep at least 2/3 of the founding ownership &#8211; everything other than vision is a commodity.  Learned the hard way myself with my own ventures.  However, there is value in bringing your friends to be part of your entrepreneurial efforts &#8211; just DON&#8217;T make it a friendship venture &#8211; draw the line between business and friendship &#8220;right from the start&#8221; &#8211; it works really well &#8211; something I am doing with my other startups.</p>
<p>I would also recommend every entrepreneur to take a self assessment test &#8211; many of those out there.  Play with the test and pick every choice &#8211; to see the feedback.  Even if you answer them wrong &#8211; you will at least know what not to do.  The thing that stood out for me in one of those self-tests was a question on &#8220;who would you enlist as part of a founding team&#8221; with the choices being &#8220;friends&#8221; or &#8220;outside consultants&#8221;.  The right answer to this question is &#8220;friends&#8221;, and if you answered it as &#8220;outside consultants&#8221; the feedback from the test was &#8220;go get a day job&#8221;.</p>
<p>When I think about consultants (someone in general who claims to have been around the block), I am reminded of a line from the movie about Earl Long (played by Paul Newman), where through his trials he points to his cronies and says &#8211; &#8220;look at them, finest bunch of Yes Men in the great state of Louisana&#8221;.</p>
<p>My litmus test for consultants &#8211; I usually set them at the first meet &#8211; try putting up a couple of your visionary ideas &#8211; and if they do not challenge you immediately, you might as well save the coffee for someone else.  End this meeting as fast you can &#8211; they are the &#8220;Yes Men&#8221;.</p>
<p>I do work with two outsourced consulting groups &#8211; six years into the relationship.  Why did I choose them?  Becasue even at the risk of loosing my business, they challenged my RFP and told me I needed to do build it a different way &#8211; got my attention &#8211; and of course they were right!  Six years later,  they are not consultants, but a partner in the truest sense.</p>
<p>I love my family, but agree with you completely &#8211; keep them out &#8211; they are as I call them, &#8220;the entrepreneur assassins&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Schorr</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195497</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Schorr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195497</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tony, i agree that picking friends as your co-founders is much easier because you can trust them and you know how they are and react to certain different situations but most of the time we never worked with each other under stressful situations like a start-up when you have to face the bills at the end of the month and dont know how you are going to survive.  or if you have to sit your friend down for a talk and set him straight about work ethics etc.  I am not saying that this was my case in particular, however it is extremely difficult to have these types of conversations and disagreements if you know that you will end up going to the pub or soccer match with that very night.
I congratulate you for being successful with your friends, however givenmy personal experience i wish i would have never invited him because i would be one friend stronger.
I agree, getting co-founders should be as smart as hell!!!  I couldn´t agree more, i can stop reading blogs after blogs that talk about how important it is to surround yourself with people smarter than you and ones that complement you well.
And Ivan, you are 100% correct, never work with a flame!!!  I never made that mistake but i know people that have... it must not be that pleasant having to work with your ex.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony, i agree that picking friends as your co-founders is much easier because you can trust them and you know how they are and react to certain different situations but most of the time we never worked with each other under stressful situations like a start-up when you have to face the bills at the end of the month and dont know how you are going to survive.  or if you have to sit your friend down for a talk and set him straight about work ethics etc.  I am not saying that this was my case in particular, however it is extremely difficult to have these types of conversations and disagreements if you know that you will end up going to the pub or soccer match with that very night.<br />
I congratulate you for being successful with your friends, however givenmy personal experience i wish i would have never invited him because i would be one friend stronger.<br />
I agree, getting co-founders should be as smart as hell!!!  I couldn´t agree more, i can stop reading blogs after blogs that talk about how important it is to surround yourself with people smarter than you and ones that complement you well.<br />
And Ivan, you are 100% correct, never work with a flame!!!  I never made that mistake but i know people that have&#8230; it must not be that pleasant having to work with your ex.</p>
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		<title>By: free market research company</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195498</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[free market research company]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[never take life too seriously]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>never take life too seriously</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Umang</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195499</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Umang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 06:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Al Pacino in Heat:
&quot;Don&#039;t let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.&quot;

:-) Probably not relevant here, but for some reason this post reminded me of this quote.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al Pacino in Heat:<br />
&#8220;Don&#8217;t let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.&#8221;</p>
<p>:-) Probably not relevant here, but for some reason this post reminded me of this quote.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ivan Ivanobrockovich</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195500</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivan Ivanobrockovich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree 100% about democracy and startups being a bad mix. Openness and transparency are fine, but somebody needs to be the boss. The founder of a company is unique, and has moral authority that carries a lot of weight. You want to listen to people, and get advice from many sources, but ultimately somebody needs to make the tough decisions. Usually no decision needs to be made because everyone is in general agreement most of the time, but when there is a stalemate, only the founder can make the call without causing all sorts of political turmoil.

Working with friends can be OK, and can be a lot of fun, but it&#039;s important they know it&#039;s your company, and that if things stop being fun, etc, you&#039;ve agreed in advance to part ways. Forming a partnership with a friend, on the other hand, is a very bad idea, bringing your spouse or significant other into a senior role, a very very bad idea. Dating people you work with, also a bad idea, especially in a small company, or if you have a predeliction for hot-headed &#039;animal in the bedroom types&#039;, who are usually also psycho in other contexts.

Having adult oversight is important, although you need to be careful about that too. I can&#039;t count the number of times I&#039;ve dealt with people who had much general business wisdom, but were completely and totally clueless about my specific business. You got to watch out for that too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree 100% about democracy and startups being a bad mix. Openness and transparency are fine, but somebody needs to be the boss. The founder of a company is unique, and has moral authority that carries a lot of weight. You want to listen to people, and get advice from many sources, but ultimately somebody needs to make the tough decisions. Usually no decision needs to be made because everyone is in general agreement most of the time, but when there is a stalemate, only the founder can make the call without causing all sorts of political turmoil.</p>
<p>Working with friends can be OK, and can be a lot of fun, but it&#8217;s important they know it&#8217;s your company, and that if things stop being fun, etc, you&#8217;ve agreed in advance to part ways. Forming a partnership with a friend, on the other hand, is a very bad idea, bringing your spouse or significant other into a senior role, a very very bad idea. Dating people you work with, also a bad idea, especially in a small company, or if you have a predeliction for hot-headed &#8216;animal in the bedroom types&#8217;, who are usually also psycho in other contexts.</p>
<p>Having adult oversight is important, although you need to be careful about that too. I can&#8217;t count the number of times I&#8217;ve dealt with people who had much general business wisdom, but were completely and totally clueless about my specific business. You got to watch out for that too.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Wright</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Wright]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I disagree heartily with two points.

&quot;Stay away from working with friends. &quot;  This, IMO, is terrible advice.  Friends are the only people you know well enough to have a sense of whether a partnership might work out.  Any other partnership has AT LEAST as much chance of going sour.   And, of course-- a good friendship will add loyalty/duty to you motivations for success.  As a counterpoint to your experience, I&#039;ve started 3 successful companies with friends.  I&#039;m still friends with all of the co-founders.

&quot;As the primary founder you better have an authoritarian role in the start-up process&quot;.  Again, I disagree.  If your co-founders feel like employees with no ability to affect the vision and not partners, you&#039;re going to lose your co-founders.  If you think you&#039;re right when 3 co-founders disagree with you very often, either you&#039;ve selected stupid co-founders or (more likely) you&#039;re being bull-headed.  In all 3 companies I&#039;ve founded, I have never ONCE pulled rank on a partner (this is 3 businesses over a period of about 8 years, to give you an idea) and I&#039;ve always been the nominal CEO.

All of your problems seem to stem from not doing a good job selecting co-founders.  You need:

1) Aligned vision.  Make sure you&#039;re on roughly the same page in terms of what you&#039;re building.

2) Complementary skillsets with a ton of mutual respect and clear division of expertise.  The UI guy should have implicit authority on UI issues, but should almost never have to use it...  His partners should have the wisdom to defer to him on most UI issues and he should have the wisdom to defer to his partners if they vehemently disagree with him.

3) Partners who are smart as hell.

4) level headed partners who are driven by metrics and logic with good conflict resolution skills.  With your &quot;my way or the highway&quot; attitude, I think you probably ought to look to yourself first here.   If you&#039;ve got 3 partners who are smart as hell telling you are wrong...  Well, you&#039;re likely wrong.

Improve your attitude and pick great partners with aligned vision.  Conflicts will be cake and friendship is a huge plus.  Hell, if they don&#039;t start as friends, they&#039;ll end up that way (spend 12 hours a day with someone and you&#039;ll either end up loving them or hating them).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree heartily with two points.</p>
<p>&#8220;Stay away from working with friends. &#8221;  This, IMO, is terrible advice.  Friends are the only people you know well enough to have a sense of whether a partnership might work out.  Any other partnership has AT LEAST as much chance of going sour.   And, of course&#8211; a good friendship will add loyalty/duty to you motivations for success.  As a counterpoint to your experience, I&#8217;ve started 3 successful companies with friends.  I&#8217;m still friends with all of the co-founders.</p>
<p>&#8220;As the primary founder you better have an authoritarian role in the start-up process&#8221;.  Again, I disagree.  If your co-founders feel like employees with no ability to affect the vision and not partners, you&#8217;re going to lose your co-founders.  If you think you&#8217;re right when 3 co-founders disagree with you very often, either you&#8217;ve selected stupid co-founders or (more likely) you&#8217;re being bull-headed.  In all 3 companies I&#8217;ve founded, I have never ONCE pulled rank on a partner (this is 3 businesses over a period of about 8 years, to give you an idea) and I&#8217;ve always been the nominal CEO.</p>
<p>All of your problems seem to stem from not doing a good job selecting co-founders.  You need:</p>
<p>1) Aligned vision.  Make sure you&#8217;re on roughly the same page in terms of what you&#8217;re building.</p>
<p>2) Complementary skillsets with a ton of mutual respect and clear division of expertise.  The UI guy should have implicit authority on UI issues, but should almost never have to use it&#8230;  His partners should have the wisdom to defer to him on most UI issues and he should have the wisdom to defer to his partners if they vehemently disagree with him.</p>
<p>3) Partners who are smart as hell.</p>
<p>4) level headed partners who are driven by metrics and logic with good conflict resolution skills.  With your &#8220;my way or the highway&#8221; attitude, I think you probably ought to look to yourself first here.   If you&#8217;ve got 3 partners who are smart as hell telling you are wrong&#8230;  Well, you&#8217;re likely wrong.</p>
<p>Improve your attitude and pick great partners with aligned vision.  Conflicts will be cake and friendship is a huge plus.  Hell, if they don&#8217;t start as friends, they&#8217;ll end up that way (spend 12 hours a day with someone and you&#8217;ll either end up loving them or hating them).</p>
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		<title>By: bngu</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195502</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bngu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree 100%. I encountered the same issue with my previous startup attempts with friends. Democracy in a startup simply doesn&#039;t work well, someone has to be in charge and needs the authority to make a call. A bad experience can permanently sour a friendship and family relationships, so be careful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree 100%. I encountered the same issue with my previous startup attempts with friends. Democracy in a startup simply doesn&#8217;t work well, someone has to be in charge and needs the authority to make a call. A bad experience can permanently sour a friendship and family relationships, so be careful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ogito blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Startup-ing with friends: mistake?</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/03/07/the-dangers-of-a-startup-democracy/#comment-195503</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ogito blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Startup-ing with friends: mistake?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundread.com/?p=570#comment-195503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Dangers of a Startup Democracy [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Dangers of a Startup Democracy [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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