Comments on: When Did You Become Someone Else’s Intellectual Property? http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:54:20 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Apple vs IBM and the non-compete clause « Alliance for Open Competition http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-913671 Apple vs IBM and the non-compete clause « Alliance for Open Competition Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:33:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-913671 <p>[...] been a critic about employee non-compete [...]</p> [...] been a critic about employee non-compete [...]

]]> By: Handcuffing innovation? - The Relentless Stream of Consciousness http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-891703 Handcuffing innovation? - The Relentless Stream of Consciousness Fri, 01 Aug 2008 23:38:13 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-891703 <p>[...] to start directly competing companies as soon as they leave their old employers. Article on GigaOM, here. Via Bijan Sabet’s tumblelog, here, and Rojo, [...]</p> [...] to start directly competing companies as soon as they leave their old employers. Article on GigaOM, here. Via Bijan Sabet’s tumblelog, here, and Rojo, [...]

]]> By: Ajay http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-867532 Ajay Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:50:55 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-867532 <p>Pat, if you think the credit card arbitration agreements are so bad, don't sign them. It's a simple choice. Many people don't use credit cards, as indispensable as you may personally find them. As for your argument that companies who don't use non-competes are at a competitive disadvantage, that is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard. I could equally well say that employees will tend to avoid the companies who force non-competes, leaving THOSE companies at a competitive disadvantage as the employees try to maximize their future employment flexibility. Ultimately, companies have many competitive advantages and disadvantages- factors like a good location, plenty of financing, a smart team already in place- so asserting that one move like this inevitably leads to a race to the bottom is just nonsense. There is value to openness and there are many companies and employees that realize that.</p> Pat, if you think the credit card arbitration agreements are so bad, don’t sign them. It’s a simple choice. Many people don’t use credit cards, as indispensable as you may personally find them. As for your argument that companies who don’t use non-competes are at a competitive disadvantage, that is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard. I could equally well say that employees will tend to avoid the companies who force non-competes, leaving THOSE companies at a competitive disadvantage as the employees try to maximize their future employment flexibility. Ultimately, companies have many competitive advantages and disadvantages- factors like a good location, plenty of financing, a smart team already in place- so asserting that one move like this inevitably leads to a race to the bottom is just nonsense. There is value to openness and there are many companies and employees that realize that.

]]> By: Pat http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-864182 Pat Wed, 05 Mar 2008 05:34:19 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-864182 <p>@Ajay : Do you 'sign' the arbitration agreements that come with all the credit card statements?</p> <p>Try not doing it ... no credit card.</p> <p>Also, if most employers are requiring non-competes then the ones that don't are actually at a competitive disadvantage. Their employees can leave and compete against the employer but the competitor's employees are locked in. Think about it.</p> @Ajay : Do you ’sign’ the arbitration agreements that come with all the credit card statements?

Try not doing it … no credit card.

Also, if most employers are requiring non-competes then the ones that don’t are actually at a competitive disadvantage. Their employees can leave and compete against the employer but the competitor’s employees are locked in. Think about it.

]]> By: Non Compete clauses and Innovation | Shiva's Mind Inspirations - Me Being Myself http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863389 Non Compete clauses and Innovation | Shiva's Mind Inspirations - Me Being Myself Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:45:34 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863389 <p>[...] Sabet of Spark Capital has authored a guest column in GigaOm yesterday and it is on how non compete clauses could actually be an impediment to innovation getting to the [...]</p> [...] Sabet of Spark Capital has authored a guest column in GigaOm yesterday and it is on how non compete clauses could actually be an impediment to innovation getting to the [...]

]]> By: Ajay http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863368 Ajay Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:30:57 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863368 <p>Dave, if the techies knowingly sign non-competes, what's the problem? If they're so brilliant and don't want to do non-competes, they can wait for another offer or start their own company and not use non-competes themselves. Ahh, but what if they then use non-competes themselves? Well, they can't really complain then, can they? As for sitting on the sidelines, it actually might do some good to have these smart people diversify and forced to do something else, as there's far too much specialization nowadays. I really don't like how you would run to the government to enforce a no non-compete law on everyone, it's the worst kind of nannyism. It would be one thing if the government forced startup employees to sign non-competes but if you're free to use them or not, let people do what they want.</p> Dave, if the techies knowingly sign non-competes, what’s the problem? If they’re so brilliant and don’t want to do non-competes, they can wait for another offer or start their own company and not use non-competes themselves. Ahh, but what if they then use non-competes themselves? Well, they can’t really complain then, can they? As for sitting on the sidelines, it actually might do some good to have these smart people diversify and forced to do something else, as there’s far too much specialization nowadays. I really don’t like how you would run to the government to enforce a no non-compete law on everyone, it’s the worst kind of nannyism. It would be one thing if the government forced startup employees to sign non-competes but if you’re free to use them or not, let people do what they want.

]]> By: David http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863323 David Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:58:39 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863323 <p>Is there a web page somewhere that lists the laws on a state-by-state basis? (For those of us who don't live in one of the four states mentioned...)</p> Is there a web page somewhere that lists the laws on a state-by-state basis? (For those of us who don’t live in one of the four states mentioned…)

]]> By: Bijan Sabet http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863320 Bijan Sabet Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:41:27 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863320 <p>@Mark-</p> <p>actually Section 16600 as told to me by legal experts in the state of CA only allows noncompetes when it comes to an acquisition or merger. at that point the courts feel and i agree that there is an event exchange of value.</p> <p>-bijan</p> @Mark-

actually Section 16600 as told to me by legal experts in the state of CA only allows noncompetes when it comes to an acquisition or merger. at that point the courts feel and i agree that there is an event exchange of value.

-bijan

]]> By: Mark http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863318 Mark Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:34:52 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863318 <p>"[E]mployee non-compete clauses are not enforceable in California"</p> <p>This is an exaggeration. Section 16600 does not prevent contractual limitation on the type of business someone does, as long as the business area is narrowly defined, reasonably limited by time or geography, and the contractual provision was clear and explicitly agreed to by the employee.</p> <p>You can't prevent someone from working at all in his or her profession, but you can mutually agree that the employee will not directly compete in your specific market niche for a bit of time after leaving your company.</p> “[E]mployee non-compete clauses are not enforceable in California”

This is an exaggeration. Section 16600 does not prevent contractual limitation on the type of business someone does, as long as the business area is narrowly defined, reasonably limited by time or geography, and the contractual provision was clear and explicitly agreed to by the employee.

You can’t prevent someone from working at all in his or her profession, but you can mutually agree that the employee will not directly compete in your specific market niche for a bit of time after leaving your company.

]]> By: Q dub http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863312 Q dub Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:23:38 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863312 <p>Looking at another dimension: non-competes wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so damn vague. Today, non-competes could prevent you from going into vaguely-related work simply because your last employer has some interest in expanding into that domain. If contracts were more specific, especially down to naming specific competitors that you can't work for, it'd make a lot more sense. (Remember that Asian dude who went Microsoft-to-Google? That was not cool)</p> Looking at another dimension: non-competes wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t so damn vague. Today, non-competes could prevent you from going into vaguely-related work simply because your last employer has some interest in expanding into that domain. If contracts were more specific, especially down to naming specific competitors that you can’t work for, it’d make a lot more sense. (Remember that Asian dude who went Microsoft-to-Google? That was not cool)

]]> By: dave http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863303 dave Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:24:24 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863303 <p>Ajay suggests that it's due to lack of research that causes technies to end up signing non-competes. From my limited experience in MA, that's not how it works; one knows before accepting an offer that a non-compete will be required.</p> <p>The difficulty is finding a job (at least, a job in a startup) that doesn't come with an obligatory non-compete.</p> <p>I suppose if we ALL developed some guts and refused the job because of the non-compete, the tide might turn. But as far as I can tell from a very limited sample, the non-compete is unavoidable.</p> <p>Hence I'm on the side of declaring these ridiculous documents to be unenforceable.</p> Ajay suggests that it’s due to lack of research that causes technies to end up signing non-competes. From my limited experience in MA, that’s not how it works; one knows before accepting an offer that a non-compete will be required.

The difficulty is finding a job (at least, a job in a startup) that doesn’t come with an obligatory non-compete.

I suppose if we ALL developed some guts and refused the job because of the non-compete, the tide might turn. But as far as I can tell from a very limited sample, the non-compete is unavoidable.

Hence I’m on the side of declaring these ridiculous documents to be unenforceable.

]]> By: WhineNBrie http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863302 WhineNBrie Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:12:54 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863302 <p>I disagree with the notion that non competes create ownership of an employee past when she has been paid. Employees use non competes as a bargaining chip for higher salary/start/stay bonuses and therefore consideration has been given by the company to the employee ahead of an employees ending date. No one is getting their rights trampled on.</p> <p>Venture investing is such a self serving boondoggle that VC's are not likely to find any sympathy on this matter. Why not pay your fair share of income taxes before complaining about an unfair world?</p> I disagree with the notion that non competes create ownership of an employee past when she has been paid. Employees use non competes as a bargaining chip for higher salary/start/stay bonuses and therefore consideration has been given by the company to the employee ahead of an employees ending date. No one is getting their rights trampled on.

Venture investing is such a self serving boondoggle that VC’s are not likely to find any sympathy on this matter. Why not pay your fair share of income taxes before complaining about an unfair world?

]]> By: Another reason Michigan is the armpit of the nation « Michigan Telephone, VoIP and Broadband blog http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863301 Another reason Michigan is the armpit of the nation « Michigan Telephone, VoIP and Broadband blog Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:09:46 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863301 <p>[...] from an article entitled, “When Did You Become Someone Else’s Intellectual Property?” by Bijan Sabet, a general partner at Spark Capital: Silicon Valley represents America’s [...]</p> [...] from an article entitled, “When Did You Become Someone Else’s Intellectual Property?” by Bijan Sabet, a general partner at Spark Capital: Silicon Valley represents America’s [...]

]]> By: RickMahn.com » Blog Archive » links for 2008-02-27 http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863291 RickMahn.com » Blog Archive » links for 2008-02-27 Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:20:20 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863291 <p>[...] Does your employer own you? Seriously. Bijan Sabet penned a fantastic guest post over at GigaOm. Recommended. (tags: non-compete nda employment) [...]</p> [...] Does your employer own you? Seriously. Bijan Sabet penned a fantastic guest post over at GigaOm. Recommended. (tags: non-compete nda employment) [...]

]]> By: Ajay http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863266 Ajay Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:43:43 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863266 <p>While I agree that these non-compete agreements have negative effects, I disagree on the solution. While never stated explicitly, the implication of the article is that more states should stop enforcing these contracts. I don't see why the government should get involved at all, one way or another. If you simply publicize this practice, that should be good enough. Have your organization spend a little bit of money and create a simple website which lists every company that regularly utilizes these agreements. This would be much simpler and easier than running to the state governments to change their laws, a process that takes years, not to mention the fact that non-compete agreements shouldn't be a subject of law/regulation anyway. If your "brilliant" techies cannot even google their future employer for information like this before signing a contract, they get what they deserve.</p> While I agree that these non-compete agreements have negative effects, I disagree on the solution. While never stated explicitly, the implication of the article is that more states should stop enforcing these contracts. I don’t see why the government should get involved at all, one way or another. If you simply publicize this practice, that should be good enough. Have your organization spend a little bit of money and create a simple website which lists every company that regularly utilizes these agreements. This would be much simpler and easier than running to the state governments to change their laws, a process that takes years, not to mention the fact that non-compete agreements shouldn’t be a subject of law/regulation anyway. If your “brilliant” techies cannot even google their future employer for information like this before signing a contract, they get what they deserve.

]]> By: 26 de febrero de 2008 http://gigaom.com/2008/02/27/when-did-you-become-someone-else%e2%80%99s-intellectual-property/#comment-863259 26 de febrero de 2008 Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:44:02 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11604#comment-863259 <p>[...] ¿Cuándo te convertiste en la propiedad intelectual de alguien más? [...]</p> [...] ¿Cuándo te convertiste en la propiedad intelectual de alguien más? [...]

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