Comments on: Using the Mobile Web is a Sticky Proposition http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/ Tracking the Internet Evolution Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:10:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Daniel Goldman http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-862542 Daniel Goldman Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:41:45 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-862542 <p><i>BTW - Opera Mini implements a lot of features that I wish my desktop browser had... Seamless backtracking without reloading, etc.</i></p> <p>The Opera desktop browser already does that. Since your visited pages are stored in the browser's cache, Opera doesn't need to download the page again.</p> <p>Daniel Opera Software</p> BTW - Opera Mini implements a lot of features that I wish my desktop browser had… Seamless backtracking without reloading, etc.

The Opera desktop browser already does that. Since your visited pages are stored in the browser’s cache, Opera doesn’t need to download the page again.

Daniel
Opera Software

]]> By: Philipstaffordwood http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-862284 Philipstaffordwood Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:20:51 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-862284 <p>I allready <em>have</em> web 1.0 and part of web 2.0. (excluding pages heavily reliant on flash and some of the more heavy web 2.0 javascript apps). I use Opera Mini on a Nokia E61i with 3G network. A large proportion of my personal surfing happens from my smartphone at whichever location is convenient.</p> <p>Why do I want a mobile web? Did anyone want a unix-web? A windows-web?</p> <p>The core design principle of the web (departed from in too many cases) is complete platform independence.</p> <p>A nod in the way of easing rendering for a small device is sometimes nice (more often just irritating as the device renders the original page better that the page adjusted for mobile in an "attempt" to help it).</p> <p>The problems you describe are problems for the application developers (mostly browser designers) and are not an insurmountable impediment.</p> <p>BTW - Opera Mini implements a lot of features that I wish my desktop browser had - automatically focusing on the main text-body part of the page. Full Page overviews. Nice Transition animations. Seamless backtracking without reloading, etc.</p> <p>(I live in Africa)</p> I allready have web 1.0 and part of web 2.0.
(excluding pages heavily reliant on flash and some of the more heavy web 2.0 javascript apps).
I use Opera Mini on a Nokia E61i with 3G network.
A large proportion of my personal surfing happens from my smartphone at whichever location is convenient.

Why do I want a mobile web?
Did anyone want a unix-web?
A windows-web?

The core design principle of the web (departed from in too many cases) is complete platform independence.

A nod in the way of easing rendering for a small device is sometimes nice (more often just irritating as the device renders the original page better that the page adjusted for mobile in an “attempt” to help it).

The problems you describe are problems for the application developers (mostly browser designers) and are not an insurmountable impediment.

BTW - Opera Mini implements a lot of features that I wish my desktop browser had - automatically focusing on the main text-body part of the page. Full Page overviews. Nice Transition animations. Seamless backtracking without reloading, etc.

(I live in Africa)

]]> By: Alex Kerr http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861956 Alex Kerr Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:31:09 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861956 <p>Few brief points;</p> <p>1.) Novarra are the worst thing to happen to the mobile web in it's short but promising history - seriously. There is an ongoing battle in Europe and elsewhere between developers and carriers that deploy Novarra technology. Not only do Novarra arguably do a REALLY bad job of transcoding, but the key point is, they block standard long-accepted header information sent with each web page request, that identifies the model of phone connecting. Blocking this means developers can't deliver the right content to the right phones, which results in broken sites and services, with much revenue loss. Novarra and the carriers have deliberately avoided this issue and lied repeatedly about addressing it.</p> <p>2.) This article is not so much wrong, but highly US-centric, and thus heavily blinkered. Before the iPhone was a glint in Steve Job's eye, there were more people accessing the web on mobiles elsewhere in the world, than the number of iPhones that have been sold or will be for a long time. The iPhone has simply thrown the mobile web into clearer focus for a nation (the US) that has had terrible mobile services compared to Europe and Asia for too long. In the US, you don't really know the great experience of the latest Nokia web browsers for example, built into S60 powered handsets in tens of millions of consumers hands. Aside from touch, we've been having great web experiences built on the same Webkit platform as iPhone Safari for far longer than iPhone users.</p> <p>3.) Linux vs. Limo is a minor skirmish in mobile at the moment.</p> <p>4.) The plethora of different runtime platforms is not that big a deal. Increasingly developers will focus on common delivery platforms on top of the OS - namely, widgets and web, possibly J2ME. Widgets, if they are standardised as looks likely, are a great hope for a common platform for the industry.</p> <p>Alex Kerr CEO phonething.com London, UK</p> Few brief points;

1.) Novarra are the worst thing to happen to the mobile web in it’s short but promising history - seriously. There is an ongoing battle in Europe and elsewhere between developers and carriers that deploy Novarra technology. Not only do Novarra arguably do a REALLY bad job of transcoding, but the key point is, they block standard long-accepted header information sent with each web page request, that identifies the model of phone connecting. Blocking this means developers can’t deliver the right content to the right phones, which results in broken sites and services, with much revenue loss. Novarra and the carriers have deliberately avoided this issue and lied repeatedly about addressing it.

2.) This article is not so much wrong, but highly US-centric, and thus heavily blinkered. Before the iPhone was a glint in Steve Job’s eye, there were more people accessing the web on mobiles elsewhere in the world, than the number of iPhones that have been sold or will be for a long time. The iPhone has simply thrown the mobile web into clearer focus for a nation (the US) that has had terrible mobile services compared to Europe and Asia for too long. In the US, you don’t really know the great experience of the latest Nokia web browsers for example, built into S60 powered handsets in tens of millions of consumers hands. Aside from touch, we’ve been having great web experiences built on the same Webkit platform as iPhone Safari for far longer than iPhone users.

3.) Linux vs. Limo is a minor skirmish in mobile at the moment.

4.) The plethora of different runtime platforms is not that big a deal. Increasingly developers will focus on common delivery platforms on top of the OS - namely, widgets and web, possibly J2ME. Widgets, if they are standardised as looks likely, are a great hope for a common platform for the industry.

Alex Kerr
CEO
phonething.com
London, UK

]]> By: Nick http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861941 Nick Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:20:09 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861941 <p>For some reason you're missing the second half of the crux of the matter. Sure, UI is an issue, but if mobile users were able to download content quickly and cheaply, it would be less important. However, existing mobile data is not priced transparently for the average consumer (how much does downloading 3 web pages cost?) and even in Europe, is very slow. In the US it must be absolutely glacial. These 2 factors mean that the user experience and the quality of the web pages become the final straw to mobile data use. The iPhone's real shift is that it is sold on a data plan, and so users feel that they might as well use it for the internet. Even 5 years ago, my Sony Z5 had a decent html browser onboard, so how webpages look is really not the most vital factor in mass uptake of mobile internet.</p> For some reason you’re missing the second half of the crux of the matter. Sure, UI is an issue, but if mobile users were able to download content quickly and cheaply, it would be less important. However, existing mobile data is not priced transparently for the average consumer (how much does downloading 3 web pages cost?) and even in Europe, is very slow. In the US it must be absolutely glacial. These 2 factors mean that the user experience and the quality of the web pages become the final straw to mobile data use.
The iPhone’s real shift is that it is sold on a data plan, and so users feel that they might as well use it for the internet. Even 5 years ago, my Sony Z5 had a decent html browser onboard, so how webpages look is really not the most vital factor in mass uptake of mobile internet.

]]> By: Nicholas Robinson http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861936 Nicholas Robinson Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:36:47 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861936 <p>For more on Novarra check out this TechCrunch story</p> <p>http://uk.techcrunch.com/2007/09/21/vodafone-in-mobile-web-storm/</p> For more on Novarra check out this TechCrunch story

http://uk.techcrunch.com/2007/09/21/vodafone-in-mobile-web-storm/

]]> By: العاب http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861857 العاب Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:09:56 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861857 <p>Great summary of the very basic problems that plague universal application and services delivery on mobiles!</p> Great summary of the very basic problems that plague universal application and services delivery on mobiles!

]]> By: Nigel Choi http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861734 Nigel Choi Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:30:47 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861734 <p>Here is a more recent outcry from Novarra's questionable practices</p> <p>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/momolondon/message/3938</p> Here is a more recent outcry from Novarra’s questionable practices

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/momolondon/message/3938

]]> By: Nigel Choi http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861733 Nigel Choi Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:13:37 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861733 <p>To most web developers and those of us who care about our audiences enough to design mobile web sites specifically to cater to mobile usage, Stacey's characterization of Novarra as a success is unfortunately very one-sided and very incorrect. While it perhaps did drive data usage for mobile phone companies, the damage it has done to the existing mobile web is not to be neglected. There is no mention of that in the article, and I find that very disturbing. As David above mentioned, I have documented extensively how Novarra is destroying existing sites that are designed for mobile.</p> <p>There are numerous other examples that Novarra is trampling all over the mobile web without regard of existing standards and practices.TeliaSonera in Sweden is using Novarra to transcode sites found through their search. The questionable practice is not only they are transcoding third party sites without the site owner's consent, they are running ads on those content. I am not sure if there are rev share agreements with the third party sites. But if they are running ads without the content owners consent or a rev share agreement, it would be a terrible mistake.</p> <p>If you need a good illustration that there is no escaping of designing for specific mobile use instead of just throwing a transcoder in front of the desktop web, see Barbara Ballard's excellent presentation about leveraging device characterisics:</p> <p>http://www.slideshare.net/barbaraballard/leveraging-device-characteristics</p> <p>Miss Higginbotham, I hope you can write another post and give equal voice to the other side of the debate -- the fact that Novarra and their wireless carrier customers are destroying the usability of the mobile web, and in some case doing something questionable in deploying their technology.</p> To most web developers and those of us who care about our audiences enough to design mobile web sites specifically to cater to mobile usage, Stacey’s characterization of Novarra as a success is unfortunately very one-sided and very incorrect. While it perhaps did drive data usage for mobile phone companies, the damage it has done to the existing mobile web is not to be neglected. There is no mention of that in the article, and I find that very disturbing. As David above mentioned, I have documented extensively how Novarra is destroying existing sites that are designed for mobile.

There are numerous other examples that Novarra is trampling all over the mobile web without regard of existing standards and practices.TeliaSonera in Sweden is using Novarra to transcode sites found through their search. The questionable practice is not only they are transcoding third party sites without the site owner’s consent, they are running ads on those content. I am not sure if there are rev share agreements with the third party sites. But if they are running ads without the content owners consent or a rev share agreement, it would be a terrible mistake.

If you need a good illustration that there is no escaping of designing for specific mobile use instead of just throwing a transcoder in front of the desktop web, see Barbara Ballard’s excellent presentation about leveraging device characterisics:

http://www.slideshare.net/barbaraballard/leveraging-device-characteristics

Miss Higginbotham, I hope you can write another post and give equal voice to the other side of the debate — the fact that Novarra and their wireless carrier customers are destroying the usability of the mobile web, and in some case doing something questionable in deploying their technology.

]]> By: James Pearce http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861713 James Pearce Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:22:00 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861713 <p>Many who didn't really "get" the desktop web thought it was just a new way of displaying printed material. Hence brochure-ware, to the amusement and despair of the web in-crowd.</p> <p>It's happening again. The mobile web is far more than just the sedentary web viewed through a keyhole. It is different medium which brings new opportunities and requires new philosophies.</p> <p>James Pearce CTO, dotMobi</p> Many who didn’t really “get” the desktop web thought it was just a new way of displaying printed material. Hence brochure-ware, to the amusement and despair of the web in-crowd.

It’s happening again. The mobile web is far more than just the sedentary web viewed through a keyhole. It is different medium which brings new opportunities and requires new philosophies.

James Pearce
CTO, dotMobi

]]> By: David Salgado http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861706 David Salgado Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:08:30 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861706 <p>The Novarra proxy is the kiss of death for the mobile internet, because it makes it impossible for developers of mobile websites to identify the devic e that the user is using and optimise their content accordingly.</p> <p>For a telling example, check out this before and after rendering of the Wall Street Journal's site.</p> <p>http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/vodawsj/nigel.html</p> The Novarra proxy is the kiss of death for the mobile internet, because it makes it impossible for developers of mobile websites to identify the devic e that the user is using and optimise their content accordingly.

For a telling example, check out this before and after rendering of the Wall Street Journal’s site.

http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/vodawsj/nigel.html

]]> By: Carmi http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861664 Carmi Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:08:44 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861664 <p>If we replace "mobile" with "desktop", we're back to the late 70s and early 80s, before the DOS - and later Windows - hegemony drove the industry toward broadly accepted standards.</p> <p>Exciting times, especially given the number of open standards currently being pushed as lingua franca solutions to the current conflicting/non-existent-standards dilemma afflicting the mobile world.</p> <p>I feel the need to pull up a seat, grab hold of my mug of tea and prepare for what promises to be an entertaining, longish show. Neat.</p> If we replace “mobile” with “desktop”, we’re back to the late 70s and early 80s, before the DOS - and later Windows - hegemony drove the industry toward broadly accepted standards.

Exciting times, especially given the number of open standards currently being pushed as lingua franca solutions to the current conflicting/non-existent-standards dilemma afflicting the mobile world.

I feel the need to pull up a seat, grab hold of my mug of tea and prepare for what promises to be an entertaining, longish show. Neat.

]]> By: Jesse Kopelman http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861649 Jesse Kopelman Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:12:10 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861649 <p>The big problem is not really software, especially OS. After all, browser as OS is a perfectly good solution for a device that will always be underpowered compared to a desktop (thanks to battery dictated power constraints). The big problem is user interface hardware. We're a long way from some sort of usable minimum resolution on the handheld being as ubiquitous as 1024X768 is on the desktop. Even after everyone is at 320X240 or (hopefully) better, what about input method. Not everyones got a touchscreen. Not everyones got a keyboard. Meanwhile, are any of these things part of the proper paradigm for the mobile web? Realistically, we are 10 years behind the desktop, when it comes to the mobile web. There is enough potential for profit, that I've no doubt the breakthroughs will come. The only question is when. Linux on the mobile is a great thing, as it gives the best playing field for wisdom of the nets to be brought to bear on these problems.</p> The big problem is not really software, especially OS. After all, browser as OS is a perfectly good solution for a device that will always be underpowered compared to a desktop (thanks to battery dictated power constraints). The big problem is user interface hardware. We’re a long way from some sort of usable minimum resolution on the handheld being as ubiquitous as 1024X768 is on the desktop. Even after everyone is at 320X240 or (hopefully) better, what about input method. Not everyones got a touchscreen. Not everyones got a keyboard. Meanwhile, are any of these things part of the proper paradigm for the mobile web? Realistically, we are 10 years behind the desktop, when it comes to the mobile web. There is enough potential for profit, that I’ve no doubt the breakthroughs will come. The only question is when. Linux on the mobile is a great thing, as it gives the best playing field for wisdom of the nets to be brought to bear on these problems.

]]> By: Alan Wilensky http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861639 Alan Wilensky Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:27:12 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861639 <p>Even the mobile JVM, which was supposed to solve this mess (J2ME), is fraught with incompatibilities across platforms.</p> Even the mobile JVM, which was supposed to solve this mess (J2ME), is fraught with incompatibilities across platforms.

]]> By: kurukshetra-wallah http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861630 kurukshetra-wallah Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:09:11 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861630 <p>The assumptions that mobile-web = PC-web or mobile data device = PC are flawed and excessively US-centric. The analysis, in turn, suffers from these flaws though consistent with its own logic.</p> The assumptions that mobile-web = PC-web or mobile data device = PC are flawed and excessively US-centric. The analysis, in turn, suffers from these flaws though consistent with its own logic.

]]> By: Dean Collins http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861612 Dean Collins Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:54:39 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861612 <p>Great post Article. It's good to see people are finally starting to pay attention to Mobile Web content.</p> <p>For too long it's been an 'also ran' repurposing of desktop content that content providers threw up at the last minute without even bothering to monitor traffic (didn't matter most of the time as the content was static and unchanging anyway).</p> <p>I've said for a long time, if someone visits your mobile site and you dont have any analytics and dont know anything about them or their visit.....does it count (as a homage to the saying "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear").</p> <p>If you run a mobile web site check out Amethon's Mobile Analytics from www.Amethon.com</p> <p>One of the worlds first analytics applications specifically built for mobile browsers. With no page tagging, artifacts or javascript we offer a real time analytics solution with no overhead or lag.</p> <p>You can finally see what your mobile web visitors are trying to tell you about your mobile content.......good or otherwise. At least then you will be able to move forward offering dynamic mobile web content that interests your visitors - or is 'thumb' fatigue a bigger issue than WAP content providers think.</p> <p>Cheers, Dean Collins www.Amethon.com</p> Great post Article. It’s good to see people are finally starting to pay attention to Mobile Web content.

For too long it’s been an ‘also ran’ repurposing of desktop content that content providers threw up at the last minute without even bothering to monitor traffic (didn’t matter most of the time as the content was static and unchanging anyway).

I’ve said for a long time, if someone visits your mobile site and you dont have any analytics and dont know anything about them or their visit…..does it count (as a homage to the saying “if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear”).

If you run a mobile web site check out Amethon’s Mobile Analytics from http://www.Amethon.com

One of the worlds first analytics applications specifically built for mobile browsers.
With no page tagging, artifacts or javascript we offer a real time analytics solution with no overhead or lag.

You can finally see what your mobile web visitors are trying to tell you about your mobile content…….good or otherwise. At least then you will be able to move forward offering dynamic mobile web content that interests your visitors - or is ‘thumb’ fatigue a bigger issue than WAP content providers think.

Cheers,
Dean Collins
http://www.Amethon.com

]]> By: Mobile Browsing Gets Better | www.univalleihe.org http://gigaom.com/2008/02/15/using-the-mobile-web-is-a-sticky-proposition/#comment-861592 Mobile Browsing Gets Better | www.univalleihe.org Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:24:13 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11473#comment-861592 <p>[...] Higginbotham over at GigaOm has some thoughts on mobile browsing and concludes that the mobile web browsing experience is still not great but it [...]</p> [...] Higginbotham over at GigaOm has some thoughts on mobile browsing and concludes that the mobile web browsing experience is still not great but it [...]

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