Comments on: Are They ISPs, or Are They Bobbies? http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:43:09 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Six of One, Half Dozen of the Other? - GigaOM http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-868836 Six of One, Half Dozen of the Other? - GigaOM Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:53:42 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-868836 <p>[...] have read any of my previous posts on this topic, you know I have taken to task U2’s manager and UK ISPs, not to mention writing a bitterly sarcastic, Swift-like proposal to disconnect the Internet to [...]</p> [...] have read any of my previous posts on this topic, you know I have taken to task U2’s manager and UK ISPs, not to mention writing a bitterly sarcastic, Swift-like proposal to disconnect the Internet to [...]

]]> By: Internet. » Blog Archive » Save Music — Disconnect the Internet! http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-866709 Internet. » Blog Archive » Save Music — Disconnect the Internet! Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:08:24 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-866709 <p>[...] Lunatic proposals involving governments regulating Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and then forcing them to disconnect users suspected of performing illegal downloads are gaining traction in the United Kingdom, France and Australia. When these ridiculous proposals first popped up, I publicly flamed the manager of my favorite band. Then I went to town on the proposed UK enforcement policy. [...]</p> [...] Lunatic proposals involving governments regulating Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and then forcing them to disconnect users suspected of performing illegal downloads are gaining traction in the United Kingdom, France and Australia. When these ridiculous proposals first popped up, I publicly flamed the manager of my favorite band. Then I went to town on the proposed UK enforcement policy. [...]

]]> By: Save Music — Disconnect the Internet! - GigaOM http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-866669 Save Music — Disconnect the Internet! - GigaOM Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:39:41 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-866669 <p>[...] Allan Leinwand, Thursday, March 20, 2008 at 11:00 AM PT Comments (5) Lunatic proposals involving governments regulating Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and then forcing them to disconnect users suspected of performing illegal downloads are gaining traction in the United Kingdom, France and Australia. When these ridiculous proposals first popped up, I publicly flamed the manager of my favorite band. Then I went to town on the proposed UK enforcement policy. [...]</p> [...] Allan Leinwand, Thursday, March 20, 2008 at 11:00 AM PT Comments (5) Lunatic proposals involving governments regulating Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and then forcing them to disconnect users suspected of performing illegal downloads are gaining traction in the United Kingdom, France and Australia. When these ridiculous proposals first popped up, I publicly flamed the manager of my favorite band. Then I went to town on the proposed UK enforcement policy. [...]

]]> By: Jeremy Penston http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-862076 Jeremy Penston Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:32:47 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-862076 <p>Hi - better late than never...</p> <p>This has been rumbling along for some time. A rep from the MCPS-PRS spoke to telco 2.0 in October and warned that this was coming. Of course, he would because he is paid by the producers but they have support in government. The Gowers Review which allowed ISPs to the end of 2007 to fix it themselves or "Government should consider whether to legislate".</p> <p>The problem for telcos is DPI. If they look in a packet for the purposes of shaping traffic or making money from advertisers, they cannot argue that they are unaware of what is going over their networks. The bit pipe ("look, we are like the postal service") argument no longer holds.</p> <p>Consider adding to the Glock analogy earlier that the gun had a detector that could tell if it was pointing at someone and Glock failed to prevent the weapon being used to shoot at people... They could quite likley be considered an accomplice. Handguns are banned in the UK by the way, which is evidence of our social values and legislative culture.</p> <p>Personally, I think we are missing the real benefit of such policing - I don't think we should use it to make sure that rights holders get paid or poor students get locked up. I think it should be used to block child pornography and stop children being abused.</p> Hi – better late than never…

This has been rumbling along for some time. A rep from the MCPS-PRS spoke to telco 2.0 in October and warned that this was coming. Of course, he would because he is paid by the producers but they have support in government. The Gowers Review which allowed ISPs to the end of 2007 to fix it themselves or “Government should consider whether to legislate”.

The problem for telcos is DPI. If they look in a packet for the purposes of shaping traffic or making money from advertisers, they cannot argue that they are unaware of what is going over their networks. The bit pipe (“look, we are like the postal service”) argument no longer holds.

Consider adding to the Glock analogy earlier that the gun had a detector that could tell if it was pointing at someone and Glock failed to prevent the weapon being used to shoot at people… They could quite likley be considered an accomplice. Handguns are banned in the UK by the way, which is evidence of our social values and legislative culture.

Personally, I think we are missing the real benefit of such policing – I don’t think we should use it to make sure that rights holders get paid or poor students get locked up. I think it should be used to block child pornography and stop children being abused.

]]> By: Graham Lewis http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861426 Graham Lewis Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:27:05 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861426 <p>LINX, the London Internet Exchange have spoken to the UK Govt. Dept. responsible and they deny that legislation is anywhere near imminent. The Copyright holders seem to have spun the Times into running a non story.</p> <p>We will see what happens but UK ISPs are not caving in on this one.</p> <p>http://publicaffairs.linx.net/news/?p=735</p> LINX, the London Internet Exchange have spoken to the UK Govt. Dept. responsible and they deny that legislation is anywhere near imminent. The Copyright holders seem to have spun the Times into running a non story.

We will see what happens but UK ISPs are not caving in on this one.

http://publicaffairs.linx.net/news/?p=735

]]> By: Allan Leinwand http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861314 Allan Leinwand Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:29:23 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861314 <p>@Dave - please tell me that was dripping sarcasm....</p> <p>@Peter - violent agreement (no pun intended).</p> @Dave – please tell me that was dripping sarcasm….

@Peter – violent agreement (no pun intended).

]]> By: Peter Radizeski http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861263 Peter Radizeski Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:17:02 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861263 <p>When will gun companies be sued for murder? I mean, same premise. No reason to have a gun except to deter or shoot something.</p> <p>How about car manufacturers? When my car runs someone over, will GM be sued?</p> <p>How about my cell phone? Because they encourage me to text and call while driving, when I hit someone, will Nokia and ATT be sued?</p> When will gun companies be sued for murder? I mean, same premise. No reason to have a gun except to deter or shoot something.

How about car manufacturers? When my car runs someone over, will GM be sued?

How about my cell phone? Because they encourage me to text and call while driving, when I hit someone, will Nokia and ATT be sued?

]]> By: Dave Asprey http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861216 Dave Asprey Wed, 13 Feb 2008 05:45:53 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861216 <p>I can't wait until we have enough compute power to do voice recognition in real time, at which point the telcos can sell a service to big companies that disconnects the VOIP service of customers who don't verbally show adequate brand loyalty. They could use an obfuscated, illogical algorithm like the credit agencies in the US use to score credit. We also might consider banning paper and pencils because they can't be tracked, and thus could be used for hacking or transmitting unauthorized information (like the constitution). Automated, realtime censorship is just what the world needs to make sure everyone behaves.</p> I can’t wait until we have enough compute power to do voice recognition in real time, at which point the telcos can sell a service to big companies that disconnects the VOIP service of customers who don’t verbally show adequate brand loyalty. They could use an obfuscated, illogical algorithm like the credit agencies in the US use to score credit. We also might consider banning paper and pencils because they can’t be tracked, and thus could be used for hacking or transmitting unauthorized information (like the constitution). Automated, realtime censorship is just what the world needs to make sure everyone behaves.

]]> By: The Culture of Ownership » Finally: the problem of ISPs http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861182 The Culture of Ownership » Finally: the problem of ISPs Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:39:41 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861182 <p>[...] UK is taking the strongest tack, introducing legislation this week that would Internet service providers to monitor traffic on their networks and take action against [...]</p> [...] UK is taking the strongest tack, introducing legislation this week that would Internet service providers to monitor traffic on their networks and take action against [...]

]]> By: Allan Leinwand http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861110 Allan Leinwand Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:45:28 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861110 <p>@deralaand - thanks. No, it was not the US.... but I have a sinking feeling this is headed to our side of the pond soon enough.</p> <p>@macdad614 - huh? You want to abolish aliases and screen names on the Internet as a way to prevent illegal downloads? Not sure I follow that train of thought.... Presumably, if you are a customer of an ISP they already have your name and billing information. So, an ISP should comply with police and Bobbies doing investigations into theft, cyber-theft or otherwise.</p> @deralaand – thanks. No, it was not the US…. but I have a sinking feeling this is headed to our side of the pond soon enough.

@macdad614 – huh? You want to abolish aliases and screen names on the Internet as a way to prevent illegal downloads? Not sure I follow that train of thought…. Presumably, if you are a customer of an ISP they already have your name and billing information. So, an ISP should comply with police and Bobbies doing investigations into theft, cyber-theft or otherwise.

]]> By: macdad614 http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861104 macdad614 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:27:22 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861104 <p>Just make it impossible for everyone to remain completely anonymous so that the REAL criminals on the internet can be located, arrested and prosecuted for their crimes against law-abiding citizens. Stealing a person's identity is as bad as rape (look at the long-term consequences), and it should be punished as such.</p> Just make it impossible for everyone to remain completely anonymous so that the REAL criminals on the internet can be located, arrested and prosecuted for their crimes against law-abiding citizens. Stealing a person’s identity is as bad as rape (look at the long-term consequences), and it should be punished as such.

]]> By: deralaand http://gigaom.com/2008/02/12/are-they-isps-or-are-they-bobbies/#comment-861077 deralaand Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:22:55 +0000 http://gigaom.com/?p=11483#comment-861077 <p>Allan, you are spot on here. Will this increase the costs for ISPs ? If so then the consumers will be paying more for the hook up. In essence, taking money away from the people that would be buying the product, that the legislation was trying to protect.</p> <p>In this world...it makes perfect sense.</p> <p>Are you sure it wasn't the U.S. Government that cooked up this idea?</p> Allan, you are spot on here. Will this increase the costs for ISPs ? If so then the consumers will be paying more for the hook up. In essence, taking money away from the people that would be buying the product, that the legislation was trying to protect.

In this world…it makes perfect sense.

Are you sure it wasn’t the U.S. Government that cooked up this idea?

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