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	<title>Comments on: Data Property Rights, Not Portability</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/</link>
	<description>Tracking the Internet Evolution</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 05:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MySpace Builds a Bigger Walled Garden - GigaOM</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-877435</link>
		<dc:creator>MySpace Builds a Bigger Walled Garden - GigaOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 18:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-877435</guid>
		<description>[...] in to sharing their MySpace information on a variety of partner sites. While not exactly complete data portability (the social networking company also said it was joining the Data Portability Project), it&#8217;s a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in to sharing their MySpace information on a variety of partner sites. While not exactly complete data portability (the social networking company also said it was joining the Data Portability Project), it&#8217;s a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-865759</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-865759</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Completely agree - the user owns the data and not the website.  Something Facebook seemed to have forgotten when they tried to make money out of it all with Beacon.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree - the user owns the data and not the website.  Something Facebook seemed to have forgotten when they tried to make money out of it all with Beacon.</p>
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		<title>By: Adriana Lukas</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-861678</link>
		<dc:creator>Adriana Lukas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-861678</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with you that the 'pure' data portability cannot be the whole story. I see it as a subset of a bigger shift towards the individual user where the data ultimate comes under his/her 'sphere of influence'. I have been working (with others with Project VRM) explicitly on the kind of 'new “data infrastructure” layer of the Internet operating system' you hint at.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.mediainfluencer.net/2008/02/power-to-the-persons-redux/
http://www.mediainfluencer.net/2008/02/social-cloud-and-the-blue-pill/&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Btw, I am a keen supporter of dataportability.org... taking the toys (data) away from web apps and platform owners should bring some interesting developments. :)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you that the &#8216;pure&#8217; data portability cannot be the whole story. I see it as a subset of a bigger shift towards the individual user where the data ultimate comes under his/her &#8217;sphere of influence&#8217;. I have been working (with others with Project VRM) explicitly on the kind of &#8216;new “data infrastructure” layer of the Internet operating system&#8217; you hint at.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mediainfluencer.net/2008/02/power-to-the-persons-redux/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mediainfluencer.net/2008/02/power-to-the-persons-redux/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.mediainfluencer.net/2008/02/social-cloud-and-the-blue-pill/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mediainfluencer.net/2008/02/social-cloud-and-the-blue-pill/</a></p>
<p>Btw, I am a keen supporter of dataportability.org&#8230; taking the toys (data) away from web apps and platform owners should bring some interesting developments. :)</p>
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		<title>By: This Week&#8217;s Bookmarks at Not So Relevant</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860760</link>
		<dc:creator>This Week&#8217;s Bookmarks at Not So Relevant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860760</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Data Property Rights, Not Portability - GigaOM [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Data Property Rights, Not Portability - GigaOM [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Data portability meeting in San Francisco &#171; foldier&#8217;s blog</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860621</link>
		<dc:creator>Data portability meeting in San Francisco &#171; foldier&#8217;s blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860621</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] GigaOM [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] GigaOM [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Q dub</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860502</link>
		<dc:creator>Q dub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860502</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great thoughts Nitin,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I sincerely hope that pay-for-meter becomes more popular in the future.  The penny-gap is largely a cultural phenomenon where people think the internet should be both free as in speech and free as in beer, combined with the lack of a really simple and ubiquitous micro-payment provider.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But until then, a majority of startups will depend on the very very unoriginal "lets get popular and stick ads in there!" business model, upon which raw data accessibility is not easily monetizeable.  I don't think Amazon S3 is a good analogy: it's customer base are the content/application providers, who are business and don't really exhibit a penny gap like consumers do.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thoughts Nitin,</p>
<p>I sincerely hope that pay-for-meter becomes more popular in the future.  The penny-gap is largely a cultural phenomenon where people think the internet should be both free as in speech and free as in beer, combined with the lack of a really simple and ubiquitous micro-payment provider.</p>
<p>But until then, a majority of startups will depend on the very very unoriginal &#8220;lets get popular and stick ads in there!&#8221; business model, upon which raw data accessibility is not easily monetizeable.  I don&#8217;t think Amazon S3 is a good analogy: it&#8217;s customer base are the content/application providers, who are business and don&#8217;t really exhibit a penny gap like consumers do.</p>
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		<title>By: Nitin Borwankar</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860406</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitin Borwankar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860406</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Steve,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Given the current situation communal data property rights, IMHO, can only be established meaningfully when strong individual data property rights are first established.  In the current situation any attempt at communal property rights will, again just my viewpoint, dominated by web site vendor domination of data property.
How do we talk about "our data property" when we don't even have a concept of data as property?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nitin&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve,</p>
<p>Given the current situation communal data property rights, IMHO, can only be established meaningfully when strong individual data property rights are first established.  In the current situation any attempt at communal property rights will, again just my viewpoint, dominated by web site vendor domination of data property.<br />
How do we talk about &#8220;our data property&#8221; when we don&#8217;t even have a concept of data as property?</p>
<p>Nitin</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Ellwood</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860352</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ellwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860352</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Excellent post. Just tweeted about it. I've talked about this area a bit on my blog, and in http://shaidorsai.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/trust-openid-vrm-data-portablity-and-how-does-it-hang-together/ I wondered which bits of data were mine.
JP Ranagaswami suggests (http://twitter.com/jobsworth/statuses/673242682) that data comes in "yours, mine, ours" forms.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;How does this model address the "ours" data? Our mutual rep/feedback status - and the data in my social graph?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post. Just tweeted about it. I&#8217;ve talked about this area a bit on my blog, and in <a href="http://shaidorsai.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/trust-openid-vrm-data-portablity-and-how-does-it-hang-together/" rel="nofollow">http://shaidorsai.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/trust-openid-vrm-data-portablity-and-how-does-it-hang-together/</a> I wondered which bits of data were mine.<br />
JP Ranagaswami suggests (http://twitter.com/jobsworth/statuses/673242682) that data comes in &#8220;yours, mine, ours&#8221; forms.</p>
<p>How does this model address the &#8220;ours&#8221; data? Our mutual rep/feedback status - and the data in my social graph?</p>
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		<title>By: Nitin Borwankar</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860311</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitin Borwankar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860311</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi John,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You're absolutely spot on about users giving away rights.  I personally use coercive web services as little as possible - I try to use for fee web services that don't try to take over my data.  The big trap of web 2.0 has been the so called "free" services that take all your data property rights in return for their non-fee-but-not-really-free services.  If users want only free services then they have to give up something and that has been data rights. But it won't take a revolution - all it will take is the next generation of web apps whose main differentiation is YOYODA - You Own Your Onw Data Always. Yoyoday apps will of necessity be for-fee apps and as I mentioned earlier the foundation for Yoyoda apps is Amazon Web Services and similar for fee "data infrastructure" layer services in the Internet Operating System.
In future rather than creating your data "in the web app" you would create it on your desktop in raw form ( text, image, ausio, video ) then save it to say S3.  Then in your web app you would merely add a URI pointing to your asset on S3.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Note that when you save all your data like this you are only moving pointers around and you never, never need to move your data around because your data is never in the app in the first place.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also since you save your data in the cloud and not in the app, a single definitive copy of your data is in S3 and you don't have to copy in and out, you can version it and send notifications to listeners etc.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Aside from the EULA's which are coercive, the concept of saving data "in the app" is broken.  increasingly web service providers are using S3 and S3 like services to save your data and mine while they still own our data.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A simple way to get out of this situation is to go save it on S3 ourselves so we continue to own our data and then just put a URI in teh app.  Voila! We just routed around the damage.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely spot on about users giving away rights.  I personally use coercive web services as little as possible - I try to use for fee web services that don&#8217;t try to take over my data.  The big trap of web 2.0 has been the so called &#8220;free&#8221; services that take all your data property rights in return for their non-fee-but-not-really-free services.  If users want only free services then they have to give up something and that has been data rights. But it won&#8217;t take a revolution - all it will take is the next generation of web apps whose main differentiation is YOYODA - You Own Your Onw Data Always. Yoyoday apps will of necessity be for-fee apps and as I mentioned earlier the foundation for Yoyoda apps is Amazon Web Services and similar for fee &#8220;data infrastructure&#8221; layer services in the Internet Operating System.<br />
In future rather than creating your data &#8220;in the web app&#8221; you would create it on your desktop in raw form ( text, image, ausio, video ) then save it to say S3.  Then in your web app you would merely add a URI pointing to your asset on S3.</p>
<p>Note that when you save all your data like this you are only moving pointers around and you never, never need to move your data around because your data is never in the app in the first place.</p>
<p>Also since you save your data in the cloud and not in the app, a single definitive copy of your data is in S3 and you don&#8217;t have to copy in and out, you can version it and send notifications to listeners etc.</p>
<p>Aside from the EULA&#8217;s which are coercive, the concept of saving data &#8220;in the app&#8221; is broken.  increasingly web service providers are using S3 and S3 like services to save your data and mine while they still own our data.</p>
<p>A simple way to get out of this situation is to go save it on S3 ourselves so we continue to own our data and then just put a URI in teh app.  Voila! We just routed around the damage.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860293</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860293</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I totally agree with you that more is at stake than just moving from site to site. But I think we as consumers bear some responsibility for not thinking through the implications of giving out our information at will on tons of websites. Whether we like it or not, we signed EULAs for websites and didn't ask for Data Portability Rights when we did so. Now, we're asking businesses to fundamentally change the way they do business. I think it will take either a strong business value incentive, or a massive uprising to really push Data Portability as a "right".&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you that more is at stake than just moving from site to site. But I think we as consumers bear some responsibility for not thinking through the implications of giving out our information at will on tons of websites. Whether we like it or not, we signed EULAs for websites and didn&#8217;t ask for Data Portability Rights when we did so. Now, we&#8217;re asking businesses to fundamentally change the way they do business. I think it will take either a strong business value incentive, or a massive uprising to really push Data Portability as a &#8220;right&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nitin Borwankar</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860268</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitin Borwankar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860268</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi YDRIVE,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Actually one implication of this article is that lack of Data Portability is actually a symptom and the disease is lack of Data Property Rights. So I beg to differ.  If you consider the two to be equal you are confusing the effects (lack of Data Portability) with the cause (lack of Data Property Rights).&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi YDRIVE,</p>
<p>Actually one implication of this article is that lack of Data Portability is actually a symptom and the disease is lack of Data Property Rights. So I beg to differ.  If you consider the two to be equal you are confusing the effects (lack of Data Portability) with the cause (lack of Data Property Rights).</p>
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		<title>By: Nitin Borwankar</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860267</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitin Borwankar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860267</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Q dub,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Each data right does not necessarily have to be monetized separately, it is possible for revenue from one to subsidize the other.  Also note that Amazon charges a per request and per Gig data transfer charge so that's  a straightforward way to monetize accessibility.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Note that Amazon Web Services is one strong candidate for being the "data infrastructure layer" of the Internet Operating System and they are doing it in a way that by default respects all data property rights.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So look for how this will be disruptive to the big players while generating revenue for Amazon which is independent of ad revenue dependent booms and busts.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Q dub,</p>
<p>Each data right does not necessarily have to be monetized separately, it is possible for revenue from one to subsidize the other.  Also note that Amazon charges a per request and per Gig data transfer charge so that&#8217;s  a straightforward way to monetize accessibility.</p>
<p>Note that Amazon Web Services is one strong candidate for being the &#8220;data infrastructure layer&#8221; of the Internet Operating System and they are doing it in a way that by default respects all data property rights.</p>
<p>So look for how this will be disruptive to the big players while generating revenue for Amazon which is independent of ad revenue dependent booms and busts.</p>
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		<title>By: Data Portability update &#187; Zen and the Art of Nonprofit Technology</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860266</link>
		<dc:creator>Data Portability update &#187; Zen and the Art of Nonprofit Technology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860266</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] you can move your data from place to place. And you have control over who can see what. There is a good blog article, which, in some regards, might be seen as a criticism of the dataportability.org group, but which, [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you can move your data from place to place. And you have control over who can see what. There is a good blog article, which, in some regards, might be seen as a criticism of the dataportability.org group, but which, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Q dub</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860253</link>
		<dc:creator>Q dub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;While data portability and ownership rights are sensible requests, I wonder how content hosts would monetize data accessibility.  It's parallel to the RSS problem, except in this case, inserting ads into raw data could be quite destructive.  Traffic usage on raw data streams could be quite substantial if a 3rd party app gains popularity and becomes a bandwidth leach.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The only way out as far as I can guess is to charge a fee-for-access, but given the penny gap, your data accessibility is criteria would be quite difficult to meet, save a handful of application where the value of data accessibility is clear and marketable.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While data portability and ownership rights are sensible requests, I wonder how content hosts would monetize data accessibility.  It&#8217;s parallel to the RSS problem, except in this case, inserting ads into raw data could be quite destructive.  Traffic usage on raw data streams could be quite substantial if a 3rd party app gains popularity and becomes a bandwidth leach.</p>
<p>The only way out as far as I can guess is to charge a fee-for-access, but given the penny gap, your data accessibility is criteria would be quite difficult to meet, save a handful of application where the value of data accessibility is clear and marketable.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rafer at Winksite &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Much More Important than Data Portability</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860214</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rafer at Winksite &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Much More Important than Data Portability</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860214</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] what Nitin Borwankar said: Data [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] what Nitin Borwankar said: Data [...]</p>
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		<title>By: YDRIVE</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/#comment-860205</link>
		<dc:creator>YDRIVE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/?p=11395#comment-860205</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In our opinion both aspects are equally important.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In our opinion both aspects are equally important.</p>
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