Comments on: Here Comes Trouble: The Thin Edge of SIP http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/ The Business of Technology Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:36:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: 7 Ways to VoIP On the Go - GigaOM http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-881762 7 Ways to VoIP On the Go - GigaOM Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:10:40 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-881762 [...] protocol, technology has already helped push down the cost of making a phone call, now it’s starting to have a deflationary impact on the world of mobile, where call charges remain stubbornly [...] [...] protocol, technology has already helped push down the cost of making a phone call, now it’s starting to have a deflationary impact on the world of mobile, where call charges remain stubbornly [...]

]]> By: Alex http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-833944 Alex Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:34:38 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-833944 <p>While Adobe is still working on SIP in flash player, you already can use flash-based SIP softphone with any SIP providers you want and make your free SIP calls right from webpage, http://flashphone.ru</p> While Adobe is still working on SIP in flash player, you already can use flash-based SIP softphone with any SIP providers you want and make your free SIP calls right from webpage, (link)

]]> By: Ike Elliott http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-829501 Ike Elliott Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:22:48 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-829501 <p>Thought-provoking post, Dan, though I can't go so far as to predict that SIP, as we now know it, will be the basis for the advance to 4 billion users. I think we will see SIP continue to evolve, and the future service model for the protocol may look substantially different than our current model. I am particularly interested in the peer-to-peer concepts that are under development. More on my blog at http://ikeelliott.typepad.com/telecosm/2008/01/too-early-to-de.html</p> Thought-provoking post, Dan, though I can’t go so far as to predict that SIP, as we now know it, will be the basis for the advance to 4 billion users. I think we will see SIP continue to evolve, and the future service model for the protocol may look substantially different than our current model. I am particularly interested in the peer-to-peer concepts that are under development. More on my blog at (link)

]]> By: Christian Schlatter http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-823539 Christian Schlatter Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:02:02 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-823539 <p>SIP is (mis-)used by the telco companies to replace existing PSTN with VoIP services, no big innovation here. Exisiting SIP IM and presence implementations are mostly proprietary (e.g. MS OCS) and XMPP/Jabber seems to be the better choice. From the beginning, SIP was flawed by not solving the NAT/firewall traversal problem, and by being totaly unsecure. After 10 years of development, these issues are still not solved (e.g. ICE is still in draft and SIP/SRTP doesn't work because key exchange isn't standardized).</p> <p>SIP is a 2nd generation realtime communications (RTC) protocol, it is time to work on the next generation of RTC protocols that allow for real innovation and do solve the problems mentioned above. One such initiative was started by ITU-T SG 16 called Advanced Multimedia System (AMS). Have a look at http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com16/ams/index.html for further information about this project.</p> SIP is (mis-)used by the telco companies to replace existing PSTN with VoIP services, no big innovation here. Exisiting SIP IM and presence implementations are mostly proprietary (e.g. MS OCS) and XMPP/Jabber seems to be the better choice. From the beginning, SIP was flawed by not solving the NAT/firewall traversal problem, and by being totaly unsecure. After 10 years of development, these issues are still not solved (e.g. ICE is still in draft and SIP/SRTP doesn’t work because key exchange isn’t standardized).

SIP is a 2nd generation realtime communications (RTC) protocol, it is time to work on the next generation of RTC protocols that allow for real innovation and do solve the problems mentioned above. One such initiative was started by ITU-T SG 16 called Advanced Multimedia System (AMS). Have a look at (link) for further information about this project.

]]> By: Daniel Berninger http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-820518 Daniel Berninger Tue, 01 Jan 2008 08:37:53 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-820518 <p>Vince,</p> <p>The headline and column identify a disconnect between the capabilities of SIP and the implementation delivered to end users. The present manifestation offers cheaper ways of delivering telephony, but the functionality does not qualify as revolutionary from an end user perspective. I am speculating there needs to be a "SIP equivalent of the web browser" in order for SIP to reach its full potential.</p> Vince,

The headline and column identify a disconnect between the capabilities of SIP and the implementation delivered to end users. The present manifestation offers cheaper ways of delivering telephony, but the functionality does not qualify as revolutionary from an end user perspective. I am speculating there needs to be a “SIP equivalent of the web browser” in order for SIP to reach its full potential.

]]> By: vince kraemer http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-819427 vince kraemer Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:02:47 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-819427 <p>I don't see how your headline makes sense. The ascendance of SIP seems like a good thing... but I am biased. Folks that use Java for application development may want to check out JSR 289, which defines APIs for creating SIP "applications" in Java.</p> I don’t see how your headline makes sense. The ascendance of SIP seems like a good thing… but I am biased. Folks that use Java for application development may want to check out JSR 289, which defines APIs for creating SIP “applications” in Java.

]]> By: Santosh http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-815618 Santosh Sun, 30 Dec 2007 06:07:24 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-815618 <p>The "Browser Moment" (for me) could not have happened without the pull of the web in the first place. I discovered Netscape only after first hearing about applications on the web like News, Chat and E-mail.</p> <ul> <li>Santosh</li> </ul> The “Browser Moment” (for me) could not have happened without the pull of the web in the first place. I discovered Netscape only after first hearing about applications on the web like News, Chat and E-mail.

  • Santosh
]]> By: jason http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-815579 jason Sun, 30 Dec 2007 05:24:01 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-815579 <p>as maybe the largest sip network, we've found the peering and integration opportunities growing rapidly in the past 6 months. it's not economical to embed any other protocol in your hardware or software app. just like other open codecs and protocols, there's a tipping point at which open takes over closed.</p> <p>for example, all of nokia's phone come with sip support. in 24 months, every mobile phone on the market will have sip. this is a boon for voice application developers.</p> <p>the one aspect of sip not mentioned here is open-ness. many networks are based on sip (mostly because of hardware support), but few are open.</p> as maybe the largest sip network, we’ve found the peering and integration opportunities growing rapidly in the past 6 months. it’s not economical to embed any other protocol in your hardware or software app. just like other open codecs and protocols, there’s a tipping point at which open takes over closed.

for example, all of nokia’s phone come with sip support. in 24 months, every mobile phone on the market will have sip. this is a boon for voice application developers.

the one aspect of sip not mentioned here is open-ness. many networks are based on sip (mostly because of hardware support), but few are open.

]]> By: Ajay http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-812313 Ajay Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:30:44 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-812313 <p>Sean, I agree with you that SIP is being used for a lot of stuff like IM, Conferencing and IMS applications like Presence, Push to Talk etc. However, all these applications have been done without SIP too, so don't know if these applications will qualify as the "browser moment".</p> <p>SIP is definitely a next generation protocol, and has a lot of market momentum, but there are lots of other realities in the world of communications, that did not apply when the www took over from ftp, telnet, Veronica, Archie etc.</p> Sean, I agree with you that SIP is being used for a lot of stuff like IM, Conferencing and IMS applications like Presence, Push to Talk etc. However, all these applications have been done without SIP too, so don’t know if these applications will qualify as the “browser moment”.

SIP is definitely a next generation protocol, and has a lot of market momentum, but there are lots of other realities in the world of communications, that did not apply when the www took over from ftp, telnet, Veronica, Archie etc.

]]> By: SIP is reaching critical mass, look for SIP everywhere in the coming year | http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-812139 SIP is reaching critical mass, look for SIP everywhere in the coming year | Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:35:08 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-812139 <p>[...] December 28, 2007SIP is reaching critical mass, look for SIP everywhere in the coming year The big telcos need  to get used to the idea that we’ll be paying for voice connections over their dedicated network less with growing speed. There will be a declining market for them to connect SIP to non-SIP PSTN devices, but there’s no long term future in it either. Increasingly, Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is playing a similar role as the common denominator interconnecting diverse communication devices and networks. And although the protocol geeks either love or hate SIP, its rapid adoption makes it impossible to ignore. The entry-level price for an SIP telephone fell to $40 in 2007 from $400 in 2002. Chip manufacturers like Texas Instruments and Broadcom already have third-generation functionality in the pipeline. Best Buy et al do not currently carry SIP phones, but web sites dedicated to SIP-enabled products (e.g. telephonydepot.com) arrived in 2007. Hundreds of companies (e.g. Betamax Group) bridge SIP calls to the traditional telephone network. Fring provides free software that turns mobile handsets into SIP clients enabling voice and IM functionality via Wi-Fi and 2G or 3G data plans. (from GigaOm) [...]</p> [...] December 28, 2007SIP is reaching critical mass, look for SIP everywhere in the coming year The big telcos need  to get used to the idea that we’ll be paying for voice connections over their dedicated network less with growing speed. There will be a declining market for them to connect SIP to non-SIP PSTN devices, but there’s no long term future in it either. Increasingly, Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is playing a similar role as the common denominator interconnecting diverse communication devices and networks. And although the protocol geeks either love or hate SIP, its rapid adoption makes it impossible to ignore. The entry-level price for an SIP telephone fell to $40 in 2007 from $400 in 2002. Chip manufacturers like Texas Instruments and Broadcom already have third-generation functionality in the pipeline. Best Buy et al do not currently carry SIP phones, but web sites dedicated to SIP-enabled products (e.g. telephonydepot.com) arrived in 2007. Hundreds of companies (e.g. Betamax Group) bridge SIP calls to the traditional telephone network. Fring provides free software that turns mobile handsets into SIP clients enabling voice and IM functionality via Wi-Fi and 2G or 3G data plans. (from GigaOm) [...]

]]> By: Sean Olson http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-812129 Sean Olson Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:33:41 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-812129 <p>I'm a bit biased, but I believe SIP has already gone beyond just PSTN interconnect. At Microsoft, we have used SIP to enable instant messaging, presence, video conferencing, and even web conferencing. SIP is definitely the protocol to bet on as many companies including Microsoft have already done. Any protocol that stops at just replicating the PSTN is doomed... fortunately SIP is not that kind of protocol.</p> I’m a bit biased, but I believe SIP has already gone beyond just PSTN interconnect. At Microsoft, we have used SIP to enable instant messaging, presence, video conferencing, and even web conferencing. SIP is definitely the protocol to bet on as many companies including Microsoft have already done. Any protocol that stops at just replicating the PSTN is doomed… fortunately SIP is not that kind of protocol.

]]> By: Shai Berger http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811870 Shai Berger Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:48:19 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811870 <p>"TCP-IP protocol [had] little in the way of public awareness until the arrival of [the] web browser...SIP still needs its web browser moment."</p> <p>The difference is, TCP-IP was the protocol behind the browser from day one. There were no "legacy" browsers in 1990. SIP has a much tougher battle in that there are several <em>billion</em> non-SIP telephony devices out there.</p> <p>I like SIP, and it has a strong foothold. But we are still early enough in the adoption process that this whole thing could go another way. More here: http://www.callthecloud.com/?p=49</p> “TCP-IP protocol [had] little in the way of public awareness until the arrival of [the] web browser…SIP still needs its web browser moment.”

The difference is, TCP-IP was the protocol behind the browser from day one. There were no “legacy” browsers in 1990. SIP has a much tougher battle in that there are several billion non-SIP telephony devices out there.

I like SIP, and it has a strong foothold. But we are still early enough in the adoption process that this whole thing could go another way. More here: (link)

]]> By: Is SIP unstoppable? at Call the Cloud http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811865 Is SIP unstoppable? at Call the Cloud Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:46:06 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811865 <p>[...] Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is certainly on the rise these days. GigaOm has a great article today examining its progress towards becoming the dominant standard of real-time [...]</p> [...] Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is certainly on the rise these days. GigaOm has a great article today examining its progress towards becoming the dominant standard of real-time [...]

]]> By: Ajay http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811745 Ajay Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:50:15 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811745 <p>Agree, so far SIP has not been used for much beyond what the PSTN. But then the PSTN (including cellular) has grown to >2Billion endpoints. And that is still growing, so don't see how or why the "horseless" paradigm will change. Maybe with IMS...</p> Agree, so far SIP has not been used for much beyond what the PSTN. But then the PSTN (including cellular) has grown to >2Billion endpoints. And that is still growing, so don’t see how or why the “horseless” paradigm will change. Maybe with IMS…

]]> By: Cory http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811501 Cory Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:06:14 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811501 <p>Verizon's patent claims that lead to the Vonage infringement would not hold up in court against a defendant with the financial resources to adequately defend themselves.</p> <p>This was a calculated tactical move on Verizon's part against a wounded enemy. In the long term (Long term meaning 2-5 years), I do not believe these will hold any water. You have not seen them pursuing it beyond Vonage, they have no interest in tangling with a worthy adversary.</p> <p>There is a wealth of substantially close prior art out there. The methods and technologies Verizon is laying claim to were in use well before their application.</p> Verizon’s patent claims that lead to the Vonage infringement would not hold up in court against a defendant with the financial resources to adequately defend themselves.

This was a calculated tactical move on Verizon’s part against a wounded enemy. In the long term (Long term meaning 2-5 years), I do not believe these will hold any water. You have not seen them pursuing it beyond Vonage, they have no interest in tangling with a worthy adversary.

There is a wealth of substantially close prior art out there. The methods and technologies Verizon is laying claim to were in use well before their application.

]]> By: Peter http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811497 Peter Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:05:16 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/28/here-comes-trouble-the-thin-edge-of-sip/#comment-811497 <p>this is what I am talking about! Technology at its best! http://www.spymac.com/details/?2322571</p> this is what I am talking about! Technology at its best!
(link)

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