Comments on: In Search of the Über Set-top Box http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/ The Business of Technology Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:34:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Knut Midtveit http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-825581 Knut Midtveit Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:36:04 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-825581 <p>Kiss-Technology (now Cisco/Linksys) was pretty good if they only could iron out the bugs AND could develop a up to date version with HD and DVB-T tuner. With the VR-558 I could: - play DVD - play music from my PC - see pictures from my PC - transfer recorded video from the box and other media to the box over FTP - use it as PVR (something like TiVo DVR)with a pretty good EPG</p> <p>Will be interesting to see if Linksys are up making the near perfect box.</p> <p>Regards Knut</p> Kiss-Technology (now Cisco/Linksys) was pretty good if they only could iron out the bugs AND could develop a up to date version with HD and DVB-T tuner.
With the VR-558 I could:
- play DVD
- play music from my PC
- see pictures from my PC
- transfer recorded video from the box and other media to the box over FTP
- use it as PVR (something like TiVo DVR)with a pretty good EPG

Will be interesting to see if Linksys are up making the near perfect box.

Regards
Knut

]]> By: Mark Phillip http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-798317 Mark Phillip Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:42:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-798317 <p>How about a STB that understands sports? I laugh whenever those Tivo commercials say they "get me" as a sports fan. Then why do I have to pad every sports event by 2 hours so I don't miss overtime?</p> <p>I want to tell my STB I like ACC Basketball, SEC Football, the Yankees and the Red Wings. Anytime any of them are involved in an exciting game, I want you to automatically start recording.</p> <p>http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17547982</p> How about a STB that understands sports? I laugh whenever those Tivo commercials say they “get me” as a sports fan. Then why do I have to pad every sports event by 2 hours so I don’t miss overtime?

I want to tell my STB I like ACC Basketball, SEC Football, the Yankees and the Red Wings. Anytime any of them are involved in an exciting game, I want you to automatically start recording.

(link)

]]> By: Allan Leinwand http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-792000 Allan Leinwand Sat, 22 Dec 2007 04:20:24 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-792000 <p>@Jessie - fair enough, but I still want what I want. Besides, as a VC I think I am destined to over-simplify :)</p> @Jessie - fair enough, but I still want what I want. Besides, as a VC I think I am destined to over-simplify :)

]]> By: YUvamani http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-789288 YUvamani Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:39:07 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-789288 <p>Allan: Great post. I do not agree with your hardware requirements as I think you have included too many components. Also the cost of such a device you mention is prohibitively expensive 800 - 1000$+ which puts it out of the range of most people.</p> <p>For now I use my mac mini + eyetv to do some of the things you mentioned.... Accessing network content in frontrow can be as easy as adding a shortcut to the network share in the Movies folder.</p> <p>Sure HDDVD/BluRay would be good and a decent TiVo style HD recorder / Cable card support would rock. But for that there is seriously no option now and somebody has to step up. Plus the high def dvd formats are prohibitively expensive hardware wise.</p> <p>I see a great market opportunity for either TiVo or Apple or Microsoft to step up. Of these 3, Microsoft with its software platform strategy seems the most likely to fail short term - Although long term that might be a good strategy. Tivo has got the recording and web media integration part almost right. Its also got the penetration in the living room, which Apple and to a lesser extent MS dont have (Despite what Microsoft will tell you - The 360 is a gaming console that non gamers will not touch). What it needs to do is become better at using external hdds or network storage and become a true media centre. TiVo also needs to replace the cable STB which it looks like they are working on. Apple, Well they need to buy TiVo or add cable card support and also open up the AppleTV. - The MacMini and the AppleTV are such promising platforms. Being closed (Both hardware and software wise) are causing its demise.</p> <p>Also I have realised that to do all the things that I need, I am forced to have a wireless mouse and keyboard - I dont know how many people are comfortable with that setup in the living room. However, The remote like the cellphones 5 way navigator or scroll wheel is clunky to use for webcontent and really are not great replacments for the mouse. For the cell phone the answer is clear - The touch screen is the only viable input for the mobile web. What will it be for the Set Top Box/ Media Centre.</p> Allan:
Great post. I do not agree with your hardware requirements as I think you have included too many components. Also the cost of such a device you mention is prohibitively expensive 800 - 1000$+ which puts it out of the range of most people.

For now I use my mac mini + eyetv to do some of the things you mentioned…. Accessing network content in frontrow can be as easy as adding a shortcut to the network share in the Movies folder.

Sure HDDVD/BluRay would be good and a decent TiVo style HD recorder / Cable card support would rock. But for that there is seriously no option now and somebody has to step up. Plus the high def dvd formats are prohibitively expensive hardware wise.

I see a great market opportunity for either TiVo or Apple or Microsoft to step up. Of these 3, Microsoft with its software platform strategy seems the most likely to fail short term - Although long term that might be a good strategy. Tivo has got the recording and web media integration part almost right. Its also got the penetration in the living room, which Apple and to a lesser extent MS dont have (Despite what Microsoft will tell you - The 360 is a gaming console that non gamers will not touch). What it needs to do is become better at using external hdds or network storage and become a true media centre. TiVo also needs to replace the cable STB which it looks like they are working on. Apple, Well they need to buy TiVo or add cable card support and also open up the AppleTV. - The MacMini and the AppleTV are such promising platforms. Being closed (Both hardware and software wise) are causing its demise.

Also I have realised that to do all the things that I need, I am forced to have a wireless mouse and keyboard - I dont know how many people are comfortable with that setup in the living room. However, The remote like the cellphones 5 way navigator or scroll wheel is clunky to use for webcontent and really are not great replacments for the mouse. For the cell phone the answer is clear - The touch screen is the only viable input for the mobile web. What will it be for the Set Top Box/ Media Centre.

]]> By: Jesse Kopelman http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788819 Jesse Kopelman Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:38:31 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788819 <p>@Allan - You are oversimplifying. How many people do you know who have their DVD player built into their main TV? Can you even buy a 30+" screen with such a thing? Last time I checked, most peoples' washers and dryers were still separate units. The reason you need 5 remotes is because there is no standardized user interface for A/V gear, not because you have multiple boxes. Having modular components with standardized interfaces, like we do in the PC world, is the best solution for anything where new features and capabilities are constantly being developed. Uber-box is the solution for some, even many, but certainly not for all, and probably not even for the majority.</p> @Allan - You are oversimplifying. How many people do you know who have their DVD player built into their main TV? Can you even buy a 30+” screen with such a thing? Last time I checked, most peoples’ washers and dryers were still separate units. The reason you need 5 remotes is because there is no standardized user interface for A/V gear, not because you have multiple boxes. Having modular components with standardized interfaces, like we do in the PC world, is the best solution for anything where new features and capabilities are constantly being developed. Uber-box is the solution for some, even many, but certainly not for all, and probably not even for the majority.

]]> By: Wes Felter http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788673 Wes Felter Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:28:00 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788673 <p>Wow, no one mentioned Moxi?</p> Wow, no one mentioned Moxi?

]]> By: Paul Schneider http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788541 Paul Schneider Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:27:06 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788541 <p>When it comes to streaming media and Web video, maybe the answer isn’t a better set-top box, but rather network-based services. There's one already launched by Grande Communications in Texas that delivers Web-based video applications to the television through any existing set-top box.</p> When it comes to streaming media and Web video, maybe the answer isn’t a better set-top box, but rather network-based services. There’s one already launched by Grande Communications in Texas that delivers Web-based video applications to the television through any existing set-top box.

]]> By: Allan Leinwand http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788522 Allan Leinwand Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:17:45 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788522 <p>@Barlow - how did I miss that one?!? Good point - this would give a great entry to folks trying to do a triple-play offer as well. I even wrote about that last year: http://gigaom.com/2006/12/10/femto-cellular/</p> @Barlow - how did I miss that one?!? Good point - this would give a great entry to folks trying to do a triple-play offer as well. I even wrote about that last year: (link)

]]> By: Barlow Keener http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788401 Barlow Keener Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:15:06 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788401 <p>What about incorporating a femtocell in the STB so I can use my cell phone in my home? And take advantage of unlimited cell calling and fully available 3G data? 2Wire and Thomson are both headed in this direction.</p> What about incorporating a femtocell in the STB so I can use my cell phone in my home? And take advantage of unlimited cell calling and fully available 3G data? 2Wire and Thomson are both headed in this direction.

]]> By: Allan Leinwand http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788007 Allan Leinwand Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:38:54 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-788007 <p>@Peter Drier - we've come to the same thoughts... Unified components = green planet :)</p> <p>@Brian - All-in-ones are good ideas for some products if executed properly - and all I want is my home entertainment in one place. The iPhone, Blackberry and many cars sure do put everything they are trying to do in one basket. But, traditionally, you are right, picking best of breed components produces a higher quality solution.</p> <p>@Mark - thanks - great info.</p> <p>@Jeffrey - when Tivo updates their software every 18 months, just push it to my uber-box. I'm assuming the hardware won't need to be upgraded that fast if it's done right.</p> <p>@ronald - now you're talking! I included a firewall in my solution and if it's an Internet router you'll have DHCP, but I like your additions!</p> <p>@Jesse - I agree with you on concept, but to I firmly believe to make technology successful in a consumer marketplace you have to make it disappear (I know I am plagiarizing someone here, but don't recall who). When we can have best-of-breed that all talk together and are controlled together then we have the best of all worlds. I'm not holding my breath as I sit here staring at my five remote controls :)</p> <p>@Ryno - Good points, but I still want my wireless Internet router built-in here. STBs of today are Internet connected, there is not much of a hardware difference to get to what I suggest. I was suggesting that a file server as well, but used Samba as my example. Any NAS/CIFS server would be fine :)</p> <p>@batman22 - Tell us how it works out!</p> <p>@joe - Thanks for the link - I agree that the next-gen STB needs to be able to access Internet content. What happens when you blow up that video to my plasma screen?</p> @Peter Drier - we’ve come to the same thoughts… Unified components = green planet :)

@Brian - All-in-ones are good ideas for some products if executed properly - and all I want is my home entertainment in one place. The iPhone, Blackberry and many cars sure do put everything they are trying to do in one basket. But, traditionally, you are right, picking best of breed components produces a higher quality solution.

@Mark - thanks - great info.

@Jeffrey - when Tivo updates their software every 18 months, just push it to my uber-box. I’m assuming the hardware won’t need to be upgraded that fast if it’s done right.

@ronald - now you’re talking! I included a firewall in my solution and if it’s an Internet router you’ll have DHCP, but I like your additions!

@Jesse - I agree with you on concept, but to I firmly believe to make technology successful in a consumer marketplace you have to make it disappear (I know I am plagiarizing someone here, but don’t recall who).
When we can have best-of-breed that all talk together and are controlled together then we have the best of all worlds. I’m not holding my breath as I sit here staring at my five remote controls :)

@Ryno - Good points, but I still want my wireless Internet router built-in here. STBs of today are Internet connected, there is not much of a hardware difference to get to what I suggest. I was suggesting that a file server as well, but used Samba as my example. Any NAS/CIFS server would be fine :)

@batman22 - Tell us how it works out!

@joe - Thanks for the link - I agree that the next-gen STB needs to be able to access Internet content. What happens when you blow up that video to my plasma screen?

]]> By: joe http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-787563 joe Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:46:28 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-787563 <p>The future Set-Top-Box/Media Center PC will provide both the 2 foot and 10 foot experience in an integrated way.</p> <p>See the demo at http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.jsp?channel=1343657452</p> The future Set-Top-Box/Media Center PC will provide both the 2 foot and 10 foot experience in an integrated way.

See the demo at (link)

]]> By: batman22 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786942 batman22 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:41:35 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786942 <p>Allan, funny thing, I spent all day yesterday researching (almost) this very topic. But first, after a couple Google searches I discovered -- believe it or not -- that the Vista laptop I had just bought my wife (and thought it was overkill for her needs) would be the right choice.</p> <p>I found a good tutorial on Lifehacker.com where you use the free Media Center that comes with Vista Home Premium (typically preloaded in new computers) as your DVR that has zero subscription fees, unlike TiVo. Obviously you hook up a TV tuner, but the key is a networked Xbox 360 (all you need is an Xbox USB network adapter) which serves as your media streamer to your TV. I don't have an Xbox 360 and at its current price point have no intention of getting one soon, so I won't get to experience this setup, but I will try the Media Center with TV Tuner. Have heard nothing but great reviews.</p> <p>As the lifehacker article says, add on an Xbox- or Vista-specific remote control and as long as you're comfy with your computer next to the cable in, basically your Xbox 360 streaming everything off your Vista machine (which can be anywhere else) might as well be your "STB" to your TV. It's as easy as it gets right now.</p> <p>I know this might not fulfill every bit of your wants (apparently there are legality issues with HDTV), but I honestly think Vista MC + Xbox 360 is a major, yet quite simple, step in the right direction of where you wanna go with this.</p> <p>And only last week I was highly critical of needing to buy a Vista machine for my wife who really only needs it for Web, Word, and PPT.</p> Allan, funny thing, I spent all day yesterday researching (almost) this very topic. But first, after a couple Google searches I discovered — believe it or not — that the Vista laptop I had just bought my wife (and thought it was overkill for her needs) would be the right choice.

I found a good tutorial on Lifehacker.com where you use the free Media Center that comes with Vista Home Premium (typically preloaded in new computers) as your DVR that has zero subscription fees, unlike TiVo. Obviously you hook up a TV tuner, but the key is a networked Xbox 360 (all you need is an Xbox USB network adapter) which serves as your media streamer to your TV. I don’t have an Xbox 360 and at its current price point have no intention of getting one soon, so I won’t get to experience this setup, but I will try the Media Center with TV Tuner. Have heard nothing but great reviews.

As the lifehacker article says, add on an Xbox- or Vista-specific remote control and as long as you’re comfy with your computer next to the cable in, basically your Xbox 360 streaming everything off your Vista machine (which can be anywhere else) might as well be your “STB” to your TV. It’s as easy as it gets right now.

I know this might not fulfill every bit of your wants (apparently there are legality issues with HDTV), but I honestly think Vista MC + Xbox 360 is a major, yet quite simple, step in the right direction of where you wanna go with this.

And only last week I was highly critical of needing to buy a Vista machine for my wife who really only needs it for Web, Word, and PPT.

]]> By: Jose Miguel Cansado http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786658 Jose Miguel Cansado Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:39:58 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786658 <p>Pushkar, You propose a very good HW set-up.</p> <p>For SW, have a look at Linux MCE, as per my previous comment.</p> <p>You can see in the demo, the remote control is a gyro-remote, quite Wii-like...</p> <p>If you get to install LinuxMCE on a MacMini that is a killer!!</p> Pushkar,
You propose a very good HW set-up.

For SW, have a look at Linux MCE, as per my previous comment.

You can see in the demo, the remote control is a gyro-remote, quite Wii-like…

If you get to install LinuxMCE on a MacMini that is a killer!!

]]> By: Mari Silbey http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786654 Mari Silbey Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:35:11 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786654 <p>Here's why it's so difficult to deliver that uber box: http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-08/the-challenge-in-building-that-perfect-entertainment-box/</p> Here’s why it’s so difficult to deliver that uber box:
(link)

]]> By: Jose Miguel Cansado http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786652 Jose Miguel Cansado Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:34:11 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786652 <p>Have a close look at Linux MCE. Running on Kubuntu, it brings not only Media Center functions, but also Home Automation, VoIP and others...</p> <p>You can wacht a quite impressive demo video here:</p> <p>http://tech-talk.biz/2007/12/14/linux-mce-video-demo-impressive/</p> <p>and</p> <p>http://tech-talk.biz/2007/12/14/video-linux-mce-vs-microsoft-mce-and-other-alternatives/</p> Have a close look at Linux MCE. Running on Kubuntu, it brings not only Media Center functions, but also Home Automation, VoIP and others…

You can wacht a quite impressive demo video here:

(link)

and

(link)

]]> By: Pushkar http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786633 Pushkar Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:21:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/12/19/in-search-of-the-uber-set-top-box/#comment-786633 <p>You may have better luck by simply configuring a mac mini with elgato. Your total setup costs are around $1k (give or take) but you get everything.</p> <p>Mac mini( Drop dead gorgeous or simply beautiful - whatever you want to call it) Elgato Tuner + the works. MiniStack for etternal Hard drive (extensible). Has file server, wifi, 1080i output, digital audio, etc built in</p> <p>THe question is only of the right software (if front row was extensible, it would be easy, but there are OSS alternatives) - and you are pretty much there.</p> <p>I am missing a cool-ass remote - try Remotebuddy (IO spirit) with the WiiMote and you have that as well!!</p> <p>Hmm.. what else? yes - maintenance of this setup sucks.. truly sucks, it wont be completely reliable - esp DVR, HD programming etc etc.. but its atleast 70% of the way there.</p> You may have better luck by simply configuring a mac mini with elgato. Your total setup costs are around $1k (give or take) but you get everything.

Mac mini( Drop dead gorgeous or simply beautiful - whatever you want to call it)
Elgato Tuner + the works.
MiniStack for etternal Hard drive (extensible).
Has file server, wifi, 1080i output, digital audio, etc built in

THe question is only of the right software (if front row was extensible, it would be easy, but there are OSS alternatives) - and you are pretty much there.

I am missing a cool-ass remote - try Remotebuddy (IO spirit) with the WiiMote and you have that as well!!

Hmm.. what else? yes - maintenance of this setup sucks.. truly sucks, it wont be completely reliable - esp DVR, HD programming etc etc.. but its atleast 70% of the way there.

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