Comments on: Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/ Trusted Insights and Conversations on the Next Wave of Technology Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:29:57 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Can ad-supported B-2-B software be as fun as iTunes? « FoundRead http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-866283 Can ad-supported B-2-B software be as fun as iTunes? « FoundRead Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:28:08 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-866283 <p>[...] idea that innovation in the enterprise space is driven by creativity in the consumer space. (GigaOM guest columnist M.R. Rangaswami wrote about this last year.) Last week M.R’s own site, Sandhill.com had a nice post with tips [...]</p> [...] idea that innovation in the enterprise space is driven by creativity in the consumer space. (GigaOM guest columnist M.R. Rangaswami wrote about this last year.) Last week M.R’s own site, Sandhill.com had a nice post with tips [...]

]]> By: Kashif Shaikh http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-619163 Kashif Shaikh Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:01:35 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-619163 <p>This is one of the dilemmas I face - I'm relatively young within the SW world - currently 29 and about 5 years of experience working for the storage industry. I always thinking if I should join a startup (where you need considerable investment before payout - like 3 or 4 years) or a relatively new company (5 or so years) with high growth .</p> <p>One one hand I would like to join a startup, because it's fast paced where ideas, designs, prototyping, coding, testing, move very fast. You sacrifice software design and features because you want to get "Version 1" out the door. The software I develop is very specific to the target audience. The software I develop is my baby, and I become very proud of it.</p> <p>At the other hand, I want to join a very high growth company that is less than 5 years old that is going to be a multi-billion dollar company with hundreds if not thousands of employees. I am wooed with stocks and stock options, and the fact the IPO or acquisition is very real. The software development itself is Enterprise and boring to work at, and there is no real ownership of software development since so many people are working on the same codebase.</p> <p>Which company do you think I should join?</p> This is one of the dilemmas I face – I’m relatively young within the SW world – currently 29 and about 5 years of experience working for the storage industry. I always thinking if I should join a startup (where you need considerable investment before payout – like 3 or 4 years) or a relatively new company (5 or so years) with high growth .

One one hand I would like to join a startup, because it’s fast paced where ideas, designs, prototyping, coding, testing, move very fast. You sacrifice software design and features because you want to get “Version 1″ out the door. The software I develop is very specific to the target audience. The software I develop is my baby, and I become very proud of it.

At the other hand, I want to join a very high growth company that is less than 5 years old that is going to be a multi-billion dollar company with hundreds if not thousands of employees. I am wooed with stocks and stock options, and the fact the IPO or acquisition is very real. The software development itself is Enterprise and boring to work at, and there is no real ownership of software development since so many people are working on the same codebase.

Which company do you think I should join?

]]> By: Scott Schnaars’ Knuckle Sandwich – Weekend Reading & Watching 10/19/07 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-619034 Scott Schnaars’ Knuckle Sandwich – Weekend Reading & Watching 10/19/07 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:27:07 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-619034 <p>[...] Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain - My initial opinion is due to young people in these industries using their own tools, but I want to read it deeper. Follow up on SmoothSpan. [...]</p> [...] Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain – My initial opinion is due to young people in these industries using their own tools, but I want to read it deeper. Follow up on SmoothSpan. [...]

]]> By: Youth Drain : Venture Chronicles http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-615009 Youth Drain : Venture Chronicles Wed, 17 Oct 2007 03:55:25 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-615009 <p>[...] Read this and take note: [...]</p> [...] Read this and take note: [...]

]]> By: Phil Crissman http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613512 Phil Crissman Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:02:24 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613512 <p>Disclosure: I work for Oracle.</p> <p>I think your last bullet point (internal "startups") is the key. If companies have internal "intrapreneur" -type departments, that would be a very attractive option for those who are leaning towards leaving to join or found a tech startup.</p> <p>Oracle has the folks at <a href="http://oracleappslab.com" rel="nofollow">OracleAppsLab</a>, who are doing some interesting stuff internally with Ruby on Rails and social networking/web 2.0-type ideas. My understanding is that SAP is trying similar things. I don't know if it will work or not -- I think it depends on whether or not these are just internal toy projects, or concepts that will be allowed to affect the companies they're working within.</p> Disclosure: I work for Oracle.

I think your last bullet point (internal “startups”) is the key. If companies have internal “intrapreneur” -type departments, that would be a very attractive option for those who are leaning towards leaving to join or found a tech startup.

Oracle has the folks at OracleAppsLab, who are doing some interesting stuff internally with Ruby on Rails and social networking/web 2.0-type ideas. My understanding is that SAP is trying similar things. I don’t know if it will work or not — I think it depends on whether or not these are just internal toy projects, or concepts that will be allowed to affect the companies they’re working within.

]]> By: Yuri Ammosov http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613325 Yuri Ammosov Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:07:38 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613325 <p>I would humbly disagree with just one thing. Most of the work done for consumer-centric web is simply too low quality to sell as enterprise product. Security, reliability, scalability, data control - all those were the weak spots of Web 2.0 in the past. The current quality level can pass with free riders that have no fiduciary responsibilities but corporate customers would be extremely sensitive to this for their buck, because they stand much more to lose from disruption, breach or hiccup.</p> I would humbly disagree with just one thing. Most of the work done for consumer-centric web is simply too low quality to sell as enterprise product. Security, reliability, scalability, data control – all those were the weak spots of Web 2.0 in the past. The current quality level can pass with free riders that have no fiduciary responsibilities but corporate customers would be extremely sensitive to this for their buck, because they stand much more to lose from disruption, breach or hiccup.

]]> By: Colin Kingsbury http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613162 Colin Kingsbury Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:04:59 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613162 <p>I'm 31 and started a b2b SaaS company in late '04, and among my circle of friends can find at least a half dozen other similar stories. All of us are largely or totally bootstrapped, revenue-generating, and living in a moderately low-rent lifestyle.</p> <p>A prestige event in Pebble Beach is quite an extravagance for a company like that, especially when the odds of finding a prospective customer at the show are limited. With the types of SaaS plays that I see in my circle, you're selling to very specific niches, and an event like this simply doesn't strike me as having a high probability of short-term yield.</p> I’m 31 and started a b2b SaaS company in late ‘04, and among my circle of friends can find at least a half dozen other similar stories. All of us are largely or totally bootstrapped, revenue-generating, and living in a moderately low-rent lifestyle.

A prestige event in Pebble Beach is quite an extravagance for a company like that, especially when the odds of finding a prospective customer at the show are limited. With the types of SaaS plays that I see in my circle, you’re selling to very specific niches, and an event like this simply doesn’t strike me as having a high probability of short-term yield.

]]> By: Shawn http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613147 Shawn Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:41:42 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-613147 <p>If Enterprises actually want some young blood in their product suppliers, it will take active effort to change behaviors.</p> <p>Last year we made the VC rounds, with a technology that could target enterprise or consumer, with a business plan for the enterprise. Feedback was nearly unanimous, and something we knew going in, that the hurdles were much higher on the enterprise. Two potential investors told us specifically to come back with a consumer-focused plan.</p> <p>At the same time, consolidation in the enterprise software industry means the less experienced (younger) get the layoff notices.</p> <p>Combine those two, no tolerance for inexperience and no money for the experienced to try something new, and I think things are going to get worse before they get better.</p> If Enterprises actually want some young blood in their product suppliers, it will take active effort to change behaviors.

Last year we made the VC rounds, with a technology that could target enterprise or consumer, with a business plan for the enterprise. Feedback was nearly unanimous, and something we knew going in, that the hurdles were much higher on the enterprise. Two potential investors told us specifically to come back with a consumer-focused plan.

At the same time, consolidation in the enterprise software industry means the less experienced (younger) get the layoff notices.

Combine those two, no tolerance for inexperience and no money for the experienced to try something new, and I think things are going to get worse before they get better.

]]> By: links for 2007-10-13 | mad dog in the fog http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-611919 links for 2007-10-13 | mad dog in the fog Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:44:43 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-611919 <p>[...] Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain « GigaOM “…within the software space, young business leaders are choosing web 2.0, open source, SaaS or consumer applications over traditional business apps.” (tags: enterprisesoftware software trends) [...]</p> [...] Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain « GigaOM “…within the software space, young business leaders are choosing web 2.0, open source, SaaS or consumer applications over traditional business apps.” (tags: enterprisesoftware software trends) [...]

]]> By: John Murphy http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-611003 John Murphy Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:58:12 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-611003 <p>How old are you? Exactly. It takes someone old(er) to comment on the woes of the enterprise software space.</p> <p>It is simpler than that. People are tired of working for someone else with reduced work/life balance. So if you are going to be forced to work for less money/benefits/balance than might as well be for yourself. THAT is what is driving away youth.</p> <p>When was the last time a "cool" idea came from IBM? We read only about Oracle's CEO, but none of their employees. part of the problem is the press (yes you Om).</p> How old are you? Exactly. It takes someone old(er) to comment on the woes of the enterprise software space.

It is simpler than that. People are tired of working for someone else with reduced work/life balance. So if you are going to be forced to work for less money/benefits/balance than might as well be for yourself. THAT is what is driving away youth.

When was the last time a “cool” idea came from IBM? We read only about Oracle’s CEO, but none of their employees. part of the problem is the press (yes you Om).

]]> By: Charles Hudson http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610935 Charles Hudson Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:11:45 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610935 <p>This is a great post and reflects a few thoughts I've had in my own head for awhile. I posted my own thoughts here:</p> <p>http://blog.charleshudson.net/?p=378</p> This is a great post and reflects a few thoughts I’ve had in my own head for awhile. I posted my own thoughts here:

http://blog.charleshudson.net/?p=378

]]> By: More Thoughts on “Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain” | Charles Hudson’s Weblog http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610933 More Thoughts on “Enterprise Software’s Youth Drain” | Charles Hudson’s Weblog Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:09:23 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610933 <p>[...] was reading this really interesting post on GigaOm about how young people aren’t going into enterprise software anymore. My initial [...]</p> [...] was reading this really interesting post on GigaOm about how young people aren’t going into enterprise software anymore. My initial [...]

]]> By: steve http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610684 steve Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:59:42 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610684 <p>In the software spectrum, enterprise sw is considered the least "sexy" from a computer science point of view. There are no slick algorithms or data-structures. The focus is more on "business process" and less on the software wizardry. (The early enterprise appln language COBOL was not even taught in computer science curricula http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL leading a computer scientist to remark "The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense" )</p> <p>Now business process is understood only by folks who have done time in industry (aka suits) and not by geeks in high-school or college.</p> <p>Hence its hard to imagine geeks gravitating to enterprise sw (building the next ERP or HR application) for the above 2 reasons.</p> In the software spectrum, enterprise sw is considered the least “sexy” from a computer science point of view. There are no slick algorithms or data-structures. The focus is more on “business process” and less on the software wizardry. (The early enterprise appln language COBOL was not even taught in computer science curricula http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL leading a computer scientist to remark “The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense” )

Now business process is understood only by folks who have done time in industry (aka suits) and not by geeks in high-school or college.

Hence its hard to imagine geeks gravitating to enterprise sw (building the next ERP or HR application) for the above 2 reasons.

]]> By: Jason Fried http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610561 Jason Fried Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:37:59 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610561 <p>Here's what we said about Enterprise anything in 2006:</p> <p>http://www.37signals.com/svn/archives2/predicting_06_enterprise_is_the_new_legacy.php</p> <p>We may have been a bit premature in our prediction, but we stand by the trend.</p> Here’s what we said about Enterprise anything in 2006:

http://www.37signals.com/svn/archives2/predicting_06_enterprise_is_the_new_legacy.php

We may have been a bit premature in our prediction, but we stand by the trend.

]]> By: Jeff http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610430 Jeff Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:44:34 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610430 <p>Great observation. I was just discussing this topic with a friend over dinner. I come home and see this post; awesome.</p> Great observation. I was just discussing this topic with a friend over dinner. I come home and see this post; awesome.

]]> By: Sadagopan http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610315 Sadagopan Sat, 13 Oct 2007 08:48:55 +0000 http://gigaom.com/2007/10/12/enterprise-softwares-youth-drain/#comment-610315 <p>MR - Thought provoking note. I think that accelarated innovation & faster adoption of advances in consumeristic technologies by the enterprise software industry is the key for success. I am optimistic about the enterprise software world embracing innovation centered around consumerism sooner than later - The impact of consumerization on enterprise and opportunities to leverage such advances are all groomed in the consumer space itself. The transition of such things into enterprise IT thereby happens automatically – in a way, advances in consumer space dictates the corresponding fallout in the enterprise space. True, but difficult to believe – right? Someone referred this phenomenon as akin to a civil war. An analysis of the past shows that in a significant number of cases the technologies that were originally focused on consumer space have made deep impact over time have made deep impact on the enterprise space – Personal computers, search, IM all are shining examples of this powerful trend. Native web companies keep coming out with a lot of full blown but trial offerings that entices lot many more consumers and many a times a revenue and utilization value evolves out of more and more usage of such offerings. In the process the consumer space gets more and richer forcing successful offering to be pushed into the enterprise –in larger numbers and faster pace.</p> <p>MR is in a way definitely right – a mixture of more young people along with some of the best minds (who could be older)driving the enterprise industry would make this transition happen faster.See my note http://123suds.blogspot.com/2007/10/enterprise-software-accelerated.html here.</p> MR – Thought provoking note. I think that accelarated innovation & faster adoption of advances in consumeristic technologies by the enterprise software industry is the key for success. I am optimistic about the enterprise software world embracing innovation centered around consumerism sooner than later – The impact of consumerization on enterprise and opportunities to leverage such advances are all groomed in the consumer space itself. The transition of such things into enterprise IT thereby happens automatically – in a way, advances in consumer space dictates the corresponding fallout in the enterprise space. True, but difficult to believe – right? Someone referred this phenomenon as akin to a civil war. An analysis of the past shows that in a significant number of cases the technologies that were originally focused on consumer space have made deep impact over time have made deep impact on the enterprise space – Personal computers, search, IM all are shining examples of this powerful trend. Native web companies keep coming out with a lot of full blown but trial offerings that entices lot many more consumers and many a times a revenue and utilization value evolves out of more and more usage of such offerings. In the process the consumer space gets more and richer forcing successful offering to be pushed into the enterprise –in larger numbers and faster pace.

MR is in a way definitely right – a mixture of more young people along with some of the best minds (who could be older)driving the enterprise industry would make this transition happen faster.See my note http://123suds.blogspot.com/2007/10/enterprise-software-accelerated.html here.

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