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	<title>Comments on: Mobile VoIP: Killer App in More Ways than One</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/</link>
	<description>Tracking the Internet Evolution</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 04:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mobile VoIP doesn't need WiMAX / WLAN / 3G</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-144715</link>
		<dc:creator>Mobile VoIP doesn't need WiMAX / WLAN / 3G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-144715</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Most important is to be reachable outside WLAN / 3G. 4S newcom thus forwards incoming VoIP calls for free over a GSM gateway to the cell phone. Outgoing mobile calls are free because they use calltrough over the internet. No WLAN necessary, just a cheap flatrate for mobile to fixed line.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most important is to be reachable outside WLAN / 3G. 4S newcom thus forwards incoming VoIP calls for free over a GSM gateway to the cell phone. Outgoing mobile calls are free because they use calltrough over the internet. No WLAN necessary, just a cheap flatrate for mobile to fixed line.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Bubley</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-141703</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Bubley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-141703</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is an area I have been researching in a lot of depth. VoIPo3G is inevitable - later versions of both CDMA and UMTS are all-IP. The question is whether VoIP will be purely operator owned-and-controlled, purely independent (Fring / Skype etc over a data connection), or some partnered version.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, later variants of HSPA and LTE should get higher volumes of VoIP traffic than circuit-switched in the same capacity, owing to improvements like header compression. Latency will also improve in stages.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My take is that it will be a mix, varying by country, demographic, CDMA vs UMTS prevalence, frequency allocations, and device type. Independent VoIPo3G will be more important in markets with lots of competing operators, plenty of fully-open smartphones and plenty of scope for tariff arbitrage.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Another angle is whether there are more valuable applications for VoIP than basic person-to-person telephony. Embedding VoIP elements into games, enterprise apps, social network etc could enable pricing models that look very different from either per-minute, or plain flatrate data.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I'll be commenting a lot more on all this over coming weeks and months.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dean Bubley&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an area I have been researching in a lot of depth. VoIPo3G is inevitable - later versions of both CDMA and UMTS are all-IP. The question is whether VoIP will be purely operator owned-and-controlled, purely independent (Fring / Skype etc over a data connection), or some partnered version.</p>
<p>Also, later variants of HSPA and LTE should get higher volumes of VoIP traffic than circuit-switched in the same capacity, owing to improvements like header compression. Latency will also improve in stages.</p>
<p>My take is that it will be a mix, varying by country, demographic, CDMA vs UMTS prevalence, frequency allocations, and device type. Independent VoIPo3G will be more important in markets with lots of competing operators, plenty of fully-open smartphones and plenty of scope for tariff arbitrage.</p>
<p>Another angle is whether there are more valuable applications for VoIP than basic person-to-person telephony. Embedding VoIP elements into games, enterprise apps, social network etc could enable pricing models that look very different from either per-minute, or plain flatrate data.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be commenting a lot more on all this over coming weeks and months.</p>
<p>Dean Bubley</p>
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		<title>By: Hoddo</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-141363</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoddo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-141363</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can't see many consumers being sold on the idea of paying high plan charges for "high quality" offerings.  Such an approach reflects badly on their other plans (intimating their inferior quality).  Are we all to expect an echo-riddled service or a sparser bank account?  Not much of a choice!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t see many consumers being sold on the idea of paying high plan charges for &#8220;high quality&#8221; offerings.  Such an approach reflects badly on their other plans (intimating their inferior quality).  Are we all to expect an echo-riddled service or a sparser bank account?  Not much of a choice!</p>
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		<title>By: Jacomo</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-141240</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-141240</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The issue for the carriers is sufficient spectrum and bandwidth, whether CDMA or GSM. Data/Video and VoiceIP demands, not to mention the real killer P2P requests, are and will continue to seriously impact these carriers ability to deliver on their real business a consistant high quality voice service.
They cannot cost effectively go to a flat rate per month for service because bandwidth, Latency, not to mention slow return path links prevent them from deploying a viable (QoS)and competitive service offering against either the emerging (yet to be proven) WiMAX mobile service and a properly designed (not these lame 1 radio nodes)Wireless Mesh Networks being deployed across the US in their major markets.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;An interesting question here is what role will Google Play if they teamed up with Muni Wireless Mesh Network (or new WiMAX)providers and handled all their VoiceIP Processing over an end to end Google Data Network (No need for the best effort internet here). They are about to launch their open standard VoiceIP Softphone and VoiceIP central management package that will reside in and be operated by them in their Fiber linked Data Centers(will be suprised if they do any Phone hardware).
So when combined with Intels new line of Centrino Pro CHips for Laptops and bluetooth links for headsets they have a built in soon to be ubiquitous customer base.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jacomo&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue for the carriers is sufficient spectrum and bandwidth, whether CDMA or GSM. Data/Video and VoiceIP demands, not to mention the real killer P2P requests, are and will continue to seriously impact these carriers ability to deliver on their real business a consistant high quality voice service.<br />
They cannot cost effectively go to a flat rate per month for service because bandwidth, Latency, not to mention slow return path links prevent them from deploying a viable (QoS)and competitive service offering against either the emerging (yet to be proven) WiMAX mobile service and a properly designed (not these lame 1 radio nodes)Wireless Mesh Networks being deployed across the US in their major markets.</p>
<p>An interesting question here is what role will Google Play if they teamed up with Muni Wireless Mesh Network (or new WiMAX)providers and handled all their VoiceIP Processing over an end to end Google Data Network (No need for the best effort internet here). They are about to launch their open standard VoiceIP Softphone and VoiceIP central management package that will reside in and be operated by them in their Fiber linked Data Centers(will be suprised if they do any Phone hardware).<br />
So when combined with Intels new line of Centrino Pro CHips for Laptops and bluetooth links for headsets they have a built in soon to be ubiquitous customer base.</p>
<p>Jacomo</p>
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		<title>By: john h schwieters</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-137567</link>
		<dc:creator>john h schwieters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 16:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-137567</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;high speed Wireless broadband across the same matrix as cell phone seems to be the right direction if we are truly going to have offices without the restrictions of being tied  to our office&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>high speed Wireless broadband across the same matrix as cell phone seems to be the right direction if we are truly going to have offices without the restrictions of being tied  to our office</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Puchol</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-134487</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Puchol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-134487</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The mobile carriers control the transport medium for VoIP. Ergo, they can regulate or even charge specially for use of VoIP, or excessive streaming. Random throttling of connections will have no noticeable effect on 'normal' browsing, but will make a VoIP call unusable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think there is an overzealous use of terms such as "disruptive", which although can be applied in some cases, I don't think it flies when the technology is disrupting the very service it relies on in order to function. TASTAAFL*&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;There ain't such thing as a free lunch.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mobile carriers control the transport medium for VoIP. Ergo, they can regulate or even charge specially for use of VoIP, or excessive streaming. Random throttling of connections will have no noticeable effect on &#8216;normal&#8217; browsing, but will make a VoIP call unusable.</p>
<p>I think there is an overzealous use of terms such as &#8220;disruptive&#8221;, which although can be applied in some cases, I don&#8217;t think it flies when the technology is disrupting the very service it relies on in order to function. TASTAAFL*</p>
<ul>
<li>There ain&#8217;t such thing as a free lunch.</li>
</ul>
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		<title>By: samab</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-134440</link>
		<dc:creator>samab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-134440</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This piece is totally non-sense.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Clearwire --- drop 20% since its IPO (at one time it went down by as much as 40%). Financial basketcase --- losing hundreds of millions of dollars --- and nobody is going to fund them the second time around.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sprint Nextel --- another financial basketcase that got much of their AWS spectrum auction funding from cable operators. It is the cable operators that are gaining big on the VoIP front (killing Vonage in subscriber net adds).  Vonage's sharp fall from its IPO --- signals the end of pure-play VoIP companies.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Even the WiMAX trade group (the official cheerleader) is hyping only tens of millions subscribers world-wide for their technology --- against (by that time) 4 billion mobile users.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;T-Mobile USA --- well if VoIP is such a killer --- then its German landline parent DT will also be in the same boat as AT&#38;T and Verizon. And if DT gets weak then TMO USA will also be weak as well.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This piece is totally non-sense.</p>
<p>Clearwire &#8212; drop 20% since its IPO (at one time it went down by as much as 40%). Financial basketcase &#8212; losing hundreds of millions of dollars &#8212; and nobody is going to fund them the second time around.</p>
<p>Sprint Nextel &#8212; another financial basketcase that got much of their AWS spectrum auction funding from cable operators. It is the cable operators that are gaining big on the VoIP front (killing Vonage in subscriber net adds).  Vonage&#8217;s sharp fall from its IPO &#8212; signals the end of pure-play VoIP companies.</p>
<p>Even the WiMAX trade group (the official cheerleader) is hyping only tens of millions subscribers world-wide for their technology &#8212; against (by that time) 4 billion mobile users.</p>
<p>T-Mobile USA &#8212; well if VoIP is such a killer &#8212; then its German landline parent DT will also be in the same boat as AT&amp;T and Verizon. And if DT gets weak then TMO USA will also be weak as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jobson Lemos</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-134437</link>
		<dc:creator>Jobson Lemos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-134437</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi, I would like introduce you the sec.un.dum (http://www.secundum.com.br). It looks like a Brazilian Technorati which pays for post's bloggers. In the last month, sec.un.dum paied 2.4 dollars for each post in the 100 more visited list. This month it will pay 5 dollars. The site is a blog community for portuguese content.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I would like introduce you the sec.un.dum (http://www.secundum.com.br). It looks like a Brazilian Technorati which pays for post&#8217;s bloggers. In the last month, sec.un.dum paied 2.4 dollars for each post in the 100 more visited list. This month it will pay 5 dollars. The site is a blog community for portuguese content.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Leyland</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-133931</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Leyland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-133931</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;T-mobile in the UK have a $15 a month unlimited data package supporting over a HSPA network.  I don't believe they restrict voip.  Vodofone and Orange are a bit more reserved, when the Nokia N95 came out a couple of months ago they removed the voip client.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T-mobile in the UK have a $15 a month unlimited data package supporting over a HSPA network.  I don&#8217;t believe they restrict voip.  Vodofone and Orange are a bit more reserved, when the Nokia N95 came out a couple of months ago they removed the voip client.</p>
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		<title>By: fracardi</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-133629</link>
		<dc:creator>fracardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 09:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-133629</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I'm quite skeptic about the mass-market uptake of VoIP over wireless, at least for three reasons:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;a) It will be difficult for end users to install use applications;
b) The QoS will continue to lag behind normal calls;
c) The operators will put some barriers&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here some post from Dean Bubley's blog on how European operators are limiting VoIP usage on 3G handsets.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2007/05/3g-terms-of-service-comparison.html
http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2007/05/vodafones-new-data-plan-defensive.html
http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2007/04/handsets-naked-sip-openness-voip-n95s.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Francesco&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://fracardi.wordpress.com/&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m quite skeptic about the mass-market uptake of VoIP over wireless, at least for three reasons:</p>
<p>a) It will be difficult for end users to install use applications;<br />
b) The QoS will continue to lag behind normal calls;<br />
c) The operators will put some barriers</p>
<p>Here some post from Dean Bubley&#8217;s blog on how European operators are limiting VoIP usage on 3G handsets.</p>
<p> (<a href="http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2007/05/3g-terms-of-service-comparison.html" rel="nofollow">link</a>) <br />
 (<a href="http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2007/05/vodafones-new-data-plan-defensive.html" rel="nofollow">link</a>) <br />
 (<a href="http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2007/04/handsets-naked-sip-openness-voip-n95s.html" rel="nofollow">link</a>) </p>
<p>Francesco</p>
<p> (<a href="http://fracardi.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">link</a>) </p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132805</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132805</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;wow, nothing else to say then I couldn't agree more....&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;r.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, nothing else to say then I couldn&#8217;t agree more&#8230;.</p>
<p>r.</p>
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		<title>By: tomcoseven</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132586</link>
		<dc:creator>tomcoseven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 02:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132586</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;About 7 years ago I spent untold hours trying convince US and European MNO's to introduce fixed price data plans for precisely the reason you describe -- to increase take rates.  At the time they were using per minute and per byte pricing that retarded adoption because subscribers couldn't figure out how much they might be spending before the bill came.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The MNO's biggest concern was VoIP, both because it drained revenue from the voice business and used so much more BW.  Circuit on mobile is best case 4kbps, whereas VoIP was about 26kbps (16kbps plus overhead) best case and sometimes significantly more.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My suggestion at the time was fixed price downlink and per byte pricing on the uplink (above some reasonable limit).  That way they wouldn't have to block VoIP or P2P.  The heavy users would end up paying $3-400 and all the normal users would get the benefit of fixed pricing.  With the net neutality push, I wouldn't surprised to see variable pricing again.  It's neutal and accomplishes the same thing... shut down Skype, Vonage and Joost.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About 7 years ago I spent untold hours trying convince US and European MNO&#8217;s to introduce fixed price data plans for precisely the reason you describe &#8212; to increase take rates.  At the time they were using per minute and per byte pricing that retarded adoption because subscribers couldn&#8217;t figure out how much they might be spending before the bill came.</p>
<p>The MNO&#8217;s biggest concern was VoIP, both because it drained revenue from the voice business and used so much more BW.  Circuit on mobile is best case 4kbps, whereas VoIP was about 26kbps (16kbps plus overhead) best case and sometimes significantly more.</p>
<p>My suggestion at the time was fixed price downlink and per byte pricing on the uplink (above some reasonable limit).  That way they wouldn&#8217;t have to block VoIP or P2P.  The heavy users would end up paying $3-400 and all the normal users would get the benefit of fixed pricing.  With the net neutality push, I wouldn&#8217;t surprised to see variable pricing again.  It&#8217;s neutal and accomplishes the same thing&#8230; shut down Skype, Vonage and Joost.</p>
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		<title>By: Chirayu</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132510</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirayu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 02:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132510</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We are in the process of rolling out an Avaya VOIP solution hosted on a private network.  I had just a conversation with a Sprint WiMax representative about being able to deply the data cards and the Avaya softphones.  The represantive wasn't resistent and actually thought it could be done -- limitedly -- with their current EVDO Rev A network.  It seems Sprint's business solution division seems to know which way the road is curving.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are in the process of rolling out an Avaya VOIP solution hosted on a private network.  I had just a conversation with a Sprint WiMax representative about being able to deply the data cards and the Avaya softphones.  The represantive wasn&#8217;t resistent and actually thought it could be done &#8212; limitedly &#8212; with their current EVDO Rev A network.  It seems Sprint&#8217;s business solution division seems to know which way the road is curving.</p>
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		<title>By: Aswath</title>
		<link>http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132262</link>
		<dc:creator>Aswath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 00:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gigaom.com/2007/06/01/mobile-voip-killer-app-in-more-ways-than-one/#comment-132262</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As Tom (http://blog.tomevslin.com/2007/05/verizon_wireles.html) reported, VZW does allow VoIP, presumably within the monthly quota that is "unlimited". As I commented in Tom's post this translates into a lot of minutes, but one would think while using a soft client. At first blush it looks like circuit switched voice is under threat, just as in the wireline world (http://www.telepocalypse.net/archives/001084.html), people will prefer to stay with circuit switched voice in the wireless world as well. Comparison to dinosaur turns out to be premature. But what will be appreciated is some form of enhanced signaling (without the intervention of the carriers) over the data connection to augment the voice session. VoIP proponents missed the boat for 10 years; one hopes that history doesn't repeat itself in the wireless world.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Tom (http://blog.tomevslin.com/2007/05/verizon_wireles.html) reported, VZW does allow VoIP, presumably within the monthly quota that is &#8220;unlimited&#8221;. As I commented in Tom&#8217;s post this translates into a lot of minutes, but one would think while using a soft client. At first blush it looks like circuit switched voice is under threat, just as in the wireline world (http://www.telepocalypse.net/archives/001084.html), people will prefer to stay with circuit switched voice in the wireless world as well. Comparison to dinosaur turns out to be premature. But what will be appreciated is some form of enhanced signaling (without the intervention of the carriers) over the data connection to augment the voice session. VoIP proponents missed the boat for 10 years; one hopes that history doesn&#8217;t repeat itself in the wireless world.</p>
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