GigaOM

Wagner,

So—disastrous in terms of money spent versus profits (not) earned? Sure. A failure 3-5 years from now, when HDTVs are much cheaper and broadband is better and faster? I suspect not.

You’re forgetting that in 3-5 years, MS will need to release a new Xbox console! The cycle will have to repeat and the money loss will continue all over again. Your theory would stand correct if MS could get 7-10 years of life out of Xbox 360. Game tech and game consoles are just aging fast for the blades and razor model to work its magic. Just when MS starts breaking even and starts getting some revenue from having a large install base, it will be time to replace old Xbox360.

/mike

xbox will fail… and fail again, American Company will never capture the Japanese gaming audience, it’s right next to being one of Japan’s greatest cultural offerings, and is something They have a personal and somewhat different taste for…. it just won’t happen, and therefor… expect japanese publishers to stick with nintendo/sony mostly… good luck monopolysoft, oh and do you think if i made ink + machines that print comic books I’d stand a chance at besting MARVEL - DC - Image as a comic company? yea… no… sorry.

Sure in 3-5 years there won’t be any new Competitor in the Home Entertainment market. The market will remain stagnant, which will make it easy for MS to finally get somewhere with the Home entertainment Business.

Now that Apple has entered into this market. It means absolutely nothing. Apple, shucks they are just losers. what do they know. SlingMedia are just babies. and Tivo never worked anyway. MS will take over this market segment for sure.

Future of MS in this market segment is absolutely bright.

Time to wake up.

I would disagree that the 360 is a “complete entertainment platform” - for example, no TV tuning (OTA, let alone cable/satellite), and even with the forthcoming 120GB “Elite” edition Xbox360, scarcely enough room to store all the media (music, pictures, videos) that the modern household is generating.

The Xbox360 is being cast as the client piece in a 3-tier MS home strategy which includes Windows Home Server in the basement, and a Vista Media Center in the equipment rack. Pretty luxurious …

I agree. With the tremendous movie studio and developer support for the 360, even the Sony exclusives are coming to the 360. Something tells me if a console is such a failure then developers/studios would stop supporting it. With such a great Live service along with XNA and Arcade, which allows smaller developers to publish their games on a large platform, I don’t see the Xbox going anywhere.

Although I give a lot of respect to Nintendo being able to find an untapped demographic and being able to create hype over what is really a Gamecube with a motion sensitive controller. I mean Wii’s are still selling out like crazy! Don’t get me wrong, I own and like the Wii but once you buy one and Zelda you look at the shelves you realize there are absolutely no games for it OR online multiplayer.

During Zelda or Trauma Center (a DS Port) I am constantly wanting to text/voice message my friends, download game demo’s, movies, game content, game trailers, etc., in the background and/or listen to my custom soundtracks as I play! For me, the 360 is the console of choice. I see the Wii and PS3 having huge problems down the road not the 360.

I mean even Wii owners have to agree, being able to download game demoes and movies so you don’t have to go or spend money at the local movie store is awesome! With the capacity for up to 2.0GB SD memory for the Wii I am surprised they don’t also support custom soundtracks.

Jim, the Wii is absolutely competitive against the PS3 and the XBox. Different price points are not the same as different market segments.

I think MS has done well to enter the market but they are in some trouble. In comparison to PS3 360 seems under powered, how long will it be until MS has to spend again to keep on a graphical par with PS3?

Having said if I were MS i’d be far more worried by the open social platform Sony are building with PS3. With PS3 i can watch my own movies/photos without having to worry about servers or streaming, i can surf the web, soon i’ll be able to create my own social community in LittleBigPlanet.

Now if Sony could monetise the open web structure they really would be in the lead. Anyone for a Google/Sony partnership?

http://rosler28.wordpress.com/2007/01/08/google-and-sony-match-made-in-heaven/

Your theory would stand correct if MS could get
7-10 years of life out of Xbox 360.

The PS2 came out in 2000, and it’s still selling extremely well– better than the PS3, even.

Wagner; Microsoft have shown they don’t apply the same model as Sony when releasing a new unit.

Sony cost reduced the PS2, then redesigned it into a slim unit and continue cost reducing that and selling it alongside the PS3. Sony did the same with the PS1 -> PS2 transition.

Microsoft’s model so far has been “We have a new console, take the old one out the back and bury it”, which means they don’t get the long profit from a cost reduced commoditized platform acting as a low cost entry point.

The lack of this high profit transitional phase points to Microsoft never breaking even with the XBox line if they keep it up.

As for other points raised, the problem with the 360 is that it isn’t designed for the living room. It’s a noisy beast with a power supply brick that’s bigger than a Wii (and I think noisier)… That takes some doing.

And as a platform for playing back HD media, well, to date the PS3 is the hands down winner. Bluray does get past the need to wait for broadband to be “fast enough” with a machine which is capable of not just playing media that’s been put online, but also anything you can put on a USB drive, compact flash card, SD card and so on, as long as it’s in a playable format (H264/AAC).

Oh, and as for the keyboard thing, I think Sony won out there by making it compatible with any USB keyboard. The PS3 even has a nice wireless keyboard/trackpad combo from Logitech in the shops now.

“first console-based keyboard out the gate.”?

I hope you don’t mean first ever. I had a Sega Keyboard for my Sega Dreamcast and browsed the web using DreamKey. It even supports Flash. This was about 7 years ago!

The first console based keyboard actually came out for the Sega Dreamcast. As that had web browsing enabled. The Dreamcast also came with a mouse. I dont know why people overlooked this fantastic console! Too ahead of it’s time methinks.

The PS2 is selling better than the PS3.

In fact… isn’t it also selling better than the Xbox 360 too?

Sony should lose a lot of real gamers because it’s just slightly updated sequel after sequel, GTA, Metal Gear Solid have kept Sony going for too long. Xbox is the console of choice for this generation.

Also the Xbox 360 isn’t the first console to come out the gate with a keyboard because the Gamecube had a controller with a keyboard in it.

I have to disagree with some of the other contributors over the importance of Japan in the gaming market. Whilst the Japanese market is the current leader in terms on consol development, notably Sony and Nintendo, the software development market is currently dominated by Europe and North America. Also, in terms of units sold of both consoles and games Japan only makes up a small proportion of the global market. Therefore I don’t think the Xbox 360’s lack of sales in Japan will be a deciding factor in it success of failure. Brand loyalty to Sony and Nintendo as well as the first true killer app to appear on the next generation machines will be prove to be much more vital.

Don’t forget that the XBox is purely a stepping stone on the roadmap for XNA. Microsoft don’t want to be the sole manufacturer of a console running their software.

What they want is numerous manufacturers to produce consoles all running XNA games. It’s how they started out, multiple hardware manufacturers all running DOS and later Windows.

Their vision is for consumers to have a choice of consoles, be they made by Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, HTC or any other manufacturer. All plugged into their TVs and all capable of running the same game.

They want consoles to be like DVD players in this respect. You buy an XNA game and play it on any XNA Game Console.

To this end, the XBox line is a just a forerunner, an expensive wedge to get into the console market. The release of Game Studio Express reinforces this strategy. It’s popularity with school and college based coders with will result in a whole new generation of coders, all fluent in C# and XNA withgin 5-10 years in addition to those developers already capable in the languages.

Microsoft are thinking far bigger and longer term than a simple console war with Sony here.

This reader wonders if the writer will still be defending MS when his 360 stops working in a few months with the now documented and well-lamented 3-red-lights fatal error issue… Sorry - cheap shot. =)

In the same way that playing a game with an infinite money trainer running blows away the level-playing field with your virtual opponent, MS endeavors to destroy (or at least hobble) the competition by throwing their ill-gotten gains from years and years of unrepentant anti-competitive behavior at a market. They don’t need to make a profit, as long as the competition is damaged.

It’s the american way I suppose. Pork for Pork’s sake. MS props up a huge and largely pointless technology sector by virtue of their continued strategy of throwing gigantic gobs of money at everything instead of simply designing things properly in the first place. Would we have a booming (and self-sustaining) antivirus industry if MS had bothered to make some relatively simple design decisions in historical versions of windows? Would the EU be having to wait years for the API documentation for windows, if MS had bothered to follow the normal development practices that most other software houses are obliged to follow? The examples are endless, ad nauseum, without even stooping to mention Netscape et al.

Perhaps this is what happens when the computer industry is led by someone who is a better contract lawyer than he is a software developer/designer. Perhaps when Gates and Ballmer finally leave, maybe MS might actually consider writing a single product that doesn’t equate to a long-term publically-funded alpha test.

“The PS2 came out in 2000, and it’s still selling extremely well– better than the PS3, even.”

Thats because the PS2 was a phenomenal success in all territories from day one, it still sells now because it has the most games - which at the end of the day is what sells a console.

In other words, XBOX doesn’t stand a chance of having the PS2s success so talking about it in the long term is pointless, IMHO.

to those who says MS will not succeed in japan, that is true but bear this in your heads. japn is not the first video game market ever since the late 90’s, if you dont know that then you dont know games. the biggest market is north america and even japanese developers know it that is why you dont see many games exclusive to japan only, they want our cash since their currency is weak and theur market collapse 10 years ago, now japan makes games to please westerners because they recognize that facts..who ever has north america and europe wins..yo wants proof?? sony sold more ps2 in north america than japan and europe put together you go do your math and see that this gentleman is not making sense and the x360 is made to last at least 7 to 10 years like the ps2 did, because video game makers cant keep up to making a console every 5 years it is too expensive(well MS can do it on bill’s gate cash alone), before posting fanboyist comments get your facts together, the video game market has change and it isnt what some here knew back then and i suspect most here are new video game players who started with the ps1 therefore dont knwo much about video gaming and which market generate the most cash(last year in noth america 11 billions were made)japan didnt even touch that amount. get out of the gutter, japan is not the be all end all of gaming no more, ask square enix, konami, capcom, fromsoftware etc where they make their cash and they will tell you north america. i own all the 3 consoles so i know what im talking about, the ps3 is overpriced with no games and weak sales therefore developers dont wanna risk yet(like with the 1st xbox), the wii is a gimmick with only one game worth it, i havent touch mine since i beat zelda, the x360 has too many first person shooters and need more diversity and less red ring of death….

Point by point answers:

1) Although true, this ignores the runaway success of the Wii. Which of course you choose to ignore via point 2.

2) So? The gaming market is unitary–most consumers do not buy multiple consoles, they settle on one. Any platform which grows/dominates the market is, by virtue of that success, dominant. Unarguably Wii has the mindshare and the sales figures and empirical as well as statistical evidence proves it. This is an artificial distinction which the industry itself does not make. Nintendo did an end-run on the HD battle and has thus far acquitted itself admirably.

3) All talk of a “unified entertainment platform” is speculative, at best. If the Apple TV starts allowing game downloads, does it enter the gaming market? My point being that although the industry continues to push for this “concept”, it is a concept driven by the desire to impress investors with POTENTIAL revenue channels. Outwith online gaming, which average consumer is going to let their gaming system replace a normal PC? Not many.

When you look at the bare facts, Nintendo is winning this war, and they have done so by growing the gaming market through TRUE innovation in gaming, not an empty “better specs” approach. Consumers respond to visceral improvements, not statistical improvements.

–

In sum, your arguments are strawmen. The truth is, as the FAs original article makes clear: on a hard-headed, investor-side basis, MS’ H&E division has lost beaucoup bucks without any obvious upside and turn to profitability. Hence one of the myriad reasons investors still sniff at MS’ stock, as the static band it has traded in for the last five years, makes clear.

IF, as a shareholder in MSFT, you think that the 360 play was a good one for MSFT, you need to go back to FInance 101. If they didn’t have a balance sheet full of cash they would never get away with such folly. Put it this way, would you rather have a dividend of 26 Billion (investment plus losses) or all the future returns on the Xbobx business Even if you had earned 10% on that money it would be well north of 30billion. You could more than buy Ninetendo with that kind of money, and pretty near buy Sony.

Microsoft’s whole strategy relies on consoles in the Living Room which is not where all this is going, that is pretty much clear. Media Center PC anyone?

They are following the same ridiculous business model on Zune, which is an even crappier product with even less upside. I don’t understand how their shareholders put up with this crap.

Evan, the 360 will do IPTV near the end of this year. Who needs antequated TV tuners when the future of content is clearly going to be downloading?

Yes, RLY(sic)

“1 – Microsoft has finally bested Sony in the console wars.”

Wagner, you’ve sited an article from Jan 2007, a time when the PS3 had been available for just 3 more and 3 months before the European launch. If you align monthly performances for both consoles since their launch, you will see the PS3 is actually winning.

“2 – The Wii and the 360 aren’t directly competing.”

If it’s a games console it is competing with the others. It’s the same market in case you didn’t notice.

“3 – The 360’s a full entertainment platform.”

Are we talking about a machine that neither supports Wi-Fi or Bluray / HD-DVD out of the box and until recently did not support HDMI? Oh but wait, the HDMI is the old 1.2 standard…

The gap between the Xbox 360 and PS3 will be insignicant this time next year.

This is the downfall of public companies in general. It’s all about the $$ … who cares that the 360 is the best console on the market, and most users love it. It’s sad really that the most important thing - user satisfaction doesn’t match the market value.

I agree 100% with Steve, they are losing an insane amount of money, in everything entertainment related Xbox, Zune, you name it, there is no way to call this a success, even if you somehow can get a profit in the next 5 year (assuming thy can hold the next xbox that much , unsure at best) it is not worth investing in this effort.
A Lot of People have PS2, And are still buying them ( remember the first Xbox ? )

as for the points James makes…

a) It’s true now, but I’m not so sure in 2 years, especially in Europe.
And actually more important , Nintendo will surpass them both in units sold in less than a year.
( I’m taking worldwide totals not just the US)

b) Not so sure, when a “non gamer” is set to buy a game console he may prefer a Wii and surely he (or she) will not buy 2 consoles.

c) So is Apple TV and a bunch of other devices, and they cost less and have more media center features (wifi built in, some have tuners and bigger hard drives )

Can sb point to sales figures for all the major consoles ? So what is the top-selling console today ?

They lost money developing it.
They lose money each time they sell one.
They lose money on most of the games they sell for it.
The games that are profitable are made by other people.

This product will never, ever cover its costs (Robbie Bach, in charge of Xbox, recently pushed back predicted breakeven point until late 2010, but to be honest, he can probably pick any date in the future he wants to, and it’ll still just be a number be plucked out of thin air, because the overall day-by-day picture for Xbox continues to be one of steady and predictable loss: the company doesn’t even have the finances heading in the right direction for ‘breakeven’ to something that is going to be achievable).

There is no way this product would survive a shareholder revolt, and Microsoft is long overdue a sharholder revolt.

Alright, I own all three and I like them all - for different reasons. Wii is just plain bonkers brilliant fun, 360 has the best action games at the moment and a certain glossy sparkle, PS3 - everything about it from the hardware to the games is sleek and professional.

The biggest problem with the 360 is that it was rushed to market to try and jump the PS3.

It’s really not ready to sit under a TV in a normal home. They screwed up not fitting HDMI or offering HDMI compatibility which is needed for most modern European sets.

It’s just too loud to have on all of the time. Sitting there at the Dashboard it is bellowing, put a disk in the tray and its plain unpleasant to be around.

There’s no guarantee users have a hard disk, so caching and the like are limited to the amount of free RAM.

Not having an integral next-generation drive is also a drawback which will limit the machine’s lifetime - games are coming on multiple DVDs already, a couple of years down the road they’ll be commonplace.

And it’s a little too early to say that HD-DVD is a Betamax for the 21st Century, but it’s not looking good.

Sony did a better job with the PS3, they made it much quieter and dispensed with the power brick, offered good connectivity, put a hard disk in as standard and threw in BluRay. And they don’t charge you for the privilege of using their online environment - Live! should be free.

Microsoft will most probably resort to the old tactic of releasing a new generation of console in the near future. The 360 will be obsoleted and dropped as quickly as MS dropped the original XBox. They’ll use their Office money to try and grab a larger share of the market next time round - and as anyone who uses Microsoft knows, by the third attempt at something they’re getting quite good at it.

But I suspect that neither Sony nor Microsoft will become rich (okay richer) from the current generation of consoles. Games are getting too expensive both to buy and to develop and the market for the first person shoot ‘em up, war simulator, racing game, fight fest that dominate these consoles (especially 360) is probably close to its maximum limit. Innovation and novel markets are the future, and here they’ll be playing catch-up to Nintendo.

“first console based keyboard out of the gate”.

No. Dreamcast had one. Others may have existed even before that.

dont actually believe what you read. do you think MS would continue to poor money into a massive loss? No.

If MS were reporting 24billion dollar profits do you think people would stand for it and buy their system? No.

MS are making money off the 360 Brand

The Atari XE gamesystem allready had a keyboard, so you could use it as a computer…
Even the Famicom (japanese Nes), had one for their downloadservices i think (and to use it as a computer).

Doh– I meant first next gen console with a keyboard. Will fix.

Hi Mike,

This article might be more realistic/believable if you linked to an assessment of the comparable market positions at the end of March rather than December 2006, nearly 4 months before the post. I don’t own (or plan to) own either console.

Shane

For Microsoft is long-term thing. I’m surprised actually at some of the comments about, I was under the impression from coverage when the original X-box launched that Microsoft weren’t planning on making a profit for quite some time and that their entry into gaming (perhaps household media covergence although they’ve had a few false starts, XP Media Edition anyone?) was a bold and somewhat epic cash-burning market-share grabbing campaign.

And lets look at the console market. Compared to practically any other form of electronic goods market or whatever (including making PC operating systems to some extent) I believe it still has absolutely massive scope to expand. The Wii with its “casual” niche is demonstrating that and I think its the tip of the iceberg (and frankly, its April, and I still can’t find one at RRP). Wii isn’t stealing X-box market share, its opening up its own territory, so I agree with Point 2. Its a gamble of course but I can’t help wondering how we’ll be reappraising this situation in 10 or even 20 years time.

I’m not worried. It’s about marketshare. When the Xbox came out, people were skeptical but it came along. When the 360 hit, people were nuts about it. It occupies a nice sweet spot pricewise between the PS3 and the Wii.

I don’t think that Microsoft is playing quarter to quarter like most companies. They’re thinking way down the road where the Xbox rev 5 or 6 is in a lot of homes and is the frontend to media center.

You don’t make money by selling someone a car, you make money by selling them 5 cars over 15 years.

I think many of you are taking a short term view of all this. I have no doubt in my mind that Microsoft knew the losses it would incur with its first 2 or 3 consoles. Sony has dominated the console wars for years with PlayStation, and before that Nintendo ruled, both Japanese companies I might add.

However, this time around its different. Microsoft has had a full year headstart on Sony Playstation 3, which has so far failed to live up to expectations. Recent reports have shown that after only a couple of months on the market, Sony has already stopped production of one of its consoles and is considering a ‘radical’ shakeup of its pricing structure. Did that happen when the PS2 came out? It certainly did not.

Add that to the fact the 360 has ben out longer, is currently a lot cheaper, has the same games, its no wonder why it is selling more. Granted the PS3 has greater graphics, but that will only appeal to the hardcore Playstation fan willing to spend the ridiculous cost to purchase one.

Sony has removed much, but not all, of the backward compatibility capabilities the PS3 has. As you know it is selling at a huge price. It has few/no exlusive ‘massive’ games for sale that the 360 does not already have. It has treated Europe like 3rd rate citizens in numerous ways. It has delayed the release in europe by several months meaning our release was months behind Japan and USA, albeit that was not directly their fault. But still, you get my point.

As I said in the beginning, Microsoft will not be taking a short term view on this. When they first release the original Xbox, that was their ‘test’ console to see how they’d perform. It did nothing wonderful in terms of damaging Sony Playstation 2. Now the 360 is out and is vastly outstripping the PS3 in sales, you will see the 360 take a massive chunk out of Sony’s marketshare. In a few years time when all consoles have bottomed out in terms of pricing, I would think the PS3 will still be king.

But, the next console will prove decisive. With the way Sony has more or less forgotten about its loyal fanbase in the PS2 market, many will jump ship to 360. Microsoft has the money to withstand huge losses, whereas Sony is much more vulnerable in that department, it cannot.

In conclusion, 360 will beat the PS3 hands down. Over the course of the next few years, PS3 will win this ‘generation’ war. The next generation, I suspect, Microsoft will have a lot to say about that.

Its not like Sony will sit down waiting for Microsoft to take over. Sony’s strategy has always been to get as many great games as possible. That has always paid off. Sony owns many great 1st party studios that will continue to make top notch exclusive triple-A titles for the playstation platform.

X360 and the Wii are great platforms but game developers are not too excited to work on them. Game developers want a challenging platform that allows them to push their creativity to the limit. PS3 allows them to do that. Of course thats not enough to make the PS3 a winning platform but it won’t be a losing one either.

My money is on the professional analyst, who’s incidentally paid , or not even in the job, depending on his credibility.

Explanation:

• Hardcore gamers aside (i.e. a minority). People buy games consoles because it’s cheaper than forking out for a PC, or initially cheaper than a DVD/Blu ray player (PS2 & PS3).
• Both PS3 and XBOX 360 are above the price of low spec PCs (in Europe at least.)
• PS3 has the advantage of a blu ray player at a lower cost than a stand alone blu ray player.
• MS reputation outside of US is abysmal.

• XBox Live, good as it is, is only a selling point to the comparatively small user base that have used it.

• I think PS3 and Nintendo Wii will be 1st & 2nd in console wars globally for this generation, because one is
  a) cheap and targeted for parents to buy for the kids
  and the other;
  b) is a cheaper way of getting HD playback into the home, and you can use your PS2 & PS1 games on it.

Sony always push backward compatability as a feature. MS simply haven’t bothered to mention it.

In fact the sooner MS hive off Xbox as a seperate entity, the sooner the gaming division can rid themselves of the negative baggage the MS brand brings to the Xbox.

They might make an annual profit then, but MS might as well forget about ever re-couping on the investment.

As mentioned above, 360 was launched to market in haste, but actually that was the only possible rational choice, short of scrapping the whole project. It simply isn’t up there with the PS3. It’s also clear both are significantly loss making products.

I’m not sure if Sony investors should be any happier than MS ones.

Nintendo stock holders have every right to be happy.

I think it is just shows the conflict between an anlayst whose objective is to make a short term profit for their investors, i.e. 3 to 5 months and a company which is looking 5 to 10 years into the future.

This more than just about video games, Microsoft needs to be more than a one horse company and the gaming division is just part of this. It also needs to be in a position to compete against future companies who intend to stray into their field of expertise and profit in the future.

I’m so glad glad I bought a Wii, (all I could afford). This sony microsoft flamewar from people who clearly are typing and not playing their consoles is so funny.

Anyway I’m off for another 2 player session on the Wii as we are playing winner stays on rules tonight… (NETWORK PLAY???, Wii play for TEAM & FUN PLAY withg real people in a one place)

My rebuttals to your 3 “defenses” (which don’t seem very strong in the first place would be:

“1 – Microsoft has finally bested Sony in the console wars.”

I do not see this. Sony is only slightly behind with a much more expensive product while they’ll continue to seel both PSOnes and PS2s. The PS2 still hugely outsells the XBox. In the game space, you can’t just look at latest models: again, Sony leads in games because of the PS2.

“2 – The Wii and the 360 aren’t directly competing.”

And? Microsoft could have said PFS didn’t compete with iPod for a million hair splitting reasons. Either Wii is taking some market share from Microsoft, or in fact, the graphic-rich console market is much smaller than the fun console market.

“3 – The 360’s a full entertainment platform.”

This is nice for XBox users, but it has proven to have ZERO appeal to the alleged wider home entertainment market. The first XBox took years to get to 24 million units, and it’s taking longer to grow past 10 million in this generation. The wider platform hasn’t opened XBox to a wider market; they have become an add-on rationalization for the small, hardcore XBox market.

And this one gets back to #2: does the XBox compete with AppleTV, or are you dismissing market segment competitors to rationalize a product? If so, in the home media space, a product like AppleTV can be upgraded every six months — a game console cannot.

I love my Xbox 360 and the games available on it.

Thankyou Microsoft :)

While this may appear to be bad publicity for microsoft and bad news for its investors, Its great news for gamers. If it is part of microsofts grand scheme to invade our living rooms, then they will keep throwing money into the machine. Not only do you get a very nifty piece of tech at a heavily subsidised price but also they will pay the money to secure key the game releases. I think the PS3’s technical superiority will eventually show on the cross-platform games, the 360 has, so far, the better exclusive titles lined up.

I can never see the point of cheerleading MS’s ultimate success in a market where they’re bleeding billions; because it’s a game where MS have infinite lives and everyone else has one (or maybe Nintendo have 3!).

It’s always the same story. 1996: Wired ran a whole section on why Microsoft were far too late into the internet & browser market to win despite being willing to bleed billions to fund it. Today, you have to fight to prevent MS technology dominating yet another site after another.

In 1998 MS were producing overpriced, overpowered, underperforming, buggy PDAs. Again MS lost billions, but their PDAs still won and their rivals either exited the market (e.g. Psion) or produced Windows-based PDAs (e.g. Palm) in order to compete.

In 2001: MS didn’t have a smart phone on the market (AFAIK), it was dominated by Nokia and Ericsson (now Sony Ericsson). These days, Nokia and Ericsson have 80% market share, but MS have majority mind-share on Smart phones.

Truth is, people just gravitate towards MS in every market, it’s just a question of ‘familiarity’. Even if they couldn’t use their PCs terribly well and find their new Windows Smart Phone incomprehensible and debilitating, it’s still familiar, so they’ll buy it.

Fast forward a couple of years and the same story is repeated in the games console market.

That’s the difference. By and large, the other companies have to make money from these products to justify the expense, MS don’t. So, with all due respect, where’s the excitement in cheering MS on?

-cheers from Juls @P.

No one appears to be a winner in the next-gen wars. And the customer is the biggest loser. Why?

1) High Def. Your average joe is not going to go and blow £1k for the tv for just gaming, and there is not enough broadcast content to pull people in. And Freeview will not get any if the government sell it off to the mobile ops!

2)The 360 was rushed to market. I’m on my 4th 360 - two overheated, and the 3rd “broke” with a faulty MS update. Looking back, I wished I never bothered.

3)The comment about the Wii having limited games? All the next gen consoles do: when are the releases AND THE QUALITY going to improve.

4) Price of games. Microsft must be charging for all the fault consoles with the price of the games. That’s going to put off the average joe.

I could probably list losts more reasons - but NEXT GEN HAS FAILED TO DELIVER.

Nintendo are the only profitable video console manufacturer, and they’ve make a tidy profit year on year for decades. Whereas Sony and Microsoft are both making a horrid loss, and again have been doing so for a long time.

Nintendo is making technically inferior machines, which are innovative and cheap to make. How can the soulless powerhouses ever compete with that.

N.B if i wanted a media centre i’d buy a PC, which i have.

Do Wii have a winner yet?

Lest we forget the humble Nintendo DS: 40 Million sold in 2 years. Fastest selling console ever. Hell, it just prints Money for Nintendo and has done for gaming what the ipod did for music downloads.

Whilst not a home console par se it proves that as long as great games are there, tech doesnt matter. In a years time the Wii may have repeated this (provided Nintendo can actually put them in the shops to buy!).

Gamers (and the Author) bemoan the lack of software available after Zelda but its been out for 6 months. The PS3 has nothing out between now and Christmas and until Oblivion came out there was little reason to own a 360.

This Christmas will where the lines are drawn as Sony have MGS4 and Microsoft have Halo 3. But is Nintendo can find a title on the Wii that is that repeats what Brain Age did for the DS (its still in the top 10) then they may outsell both these titles. Even the almighty GTA4 is looking like a fancier remake of GTA3.

I’m not a fan of MS but people who keep saying that they are going to be facing big problems because of their entertainment division clearly show a lack of understanding (Dont have a clue what your on about, in other words!), while it is true that they may be making a small loss on the xbox 360, they have actually managed to bring the manufacturing costs of the parts down due to them owning the rights which means they are not paying a third party to produce them as they did with the previous xbox (Intel and Nvidia). They are in a situation now where by for each xbox 360 console sold they are in fact just about breaking even something which certainly can not be said of Sony, do you see people saying they should leave the console market?

Another point I would like to make is that the company will release figures very soon which show overall the company still continues to make massive profits so for those saying there will be a shareholder revolt your talking rubbish. Dont believe me? Well lets just wait and see.

Nintendo (an innovative company I really like) at the moment seem to be the only company doing really well in the console market to a point where they are making a profit, but remember this is all they are about consoles and games while Sony and Microsoft are not.

I fail to see where people are getting the idea that PS3 graphics are superior. Antone who knows about GPUs would know that the 360 architecture is much more flexible and easier to use than the PS3. Not to mention that the PS3’s background Operating system uses up 20% of the RAM.
The cell proccessor may be more powerful, but anyone who’s seen Gears of War would know that the graphics war hasn’t been won by Sony quite yet.

Another point I forgot to mention was XNA which is going to play an ever increasing role in games as far as developers are concerned. XNA allows developers to make games for the 360 and simply port them over to the PC(running windows) or vice versa with ease. This means when looking at the PC to develop games they can also consider the 360, in other words a developers dream!

The 360 needs a bigger hard drive and to be able to play all video formats if it will truely be a media centre, I’ve got 500GB of videos, none of it is in a format that the 360 will play.

MS messed up again. They came out with a machine for the present. Sony came out with a machine for the Present and Future(2-4years minimum).

Proof is that MS is already coming out with a “elite” model…then next will be “super elite”…while PS3 can stand on its own.

I have the old Xbox..and am going to buy PS3 just cause it gives me so much. I may not need it today..but I want it for tomorrow.

MS messed up BIG TIME. Hahahahaha

1 – Microsoft has finally bested Sony in the console wars.

After the first Xbox failed to capture the market away from the PS2, the 360 dominates over PS3, and looks poised to continue doing so.

Hold on there buddy!! That is way too early to say. It is impossible for Microsoft to outclass a much more superior product which is truly ready for the next generation. Microsoft has not bested PS3 and it will not because their product is not future proof.

If you are referring to the sales aspect only, that is only because Microsoft has had a whole year’s lead on the Playstation 3. A console with years old technology (XBOX 360 and DVD) versus a superior console (PS3 and Blu-Ray)stands no chance in the long term and it not poised to continue doing what it has not done so. There are many factors that need to be considered when commenting on this issue and your blog is insanely biased and provides incomplete information.

Sincerely,
Unbiased Reader

@ Unbiased Reader (O RLY?)

If you truly believe it’s a case of technology then you have not been in the gaming scene for very long. Let’s look at just how well technology faired in the previous generation.

Previous gen consoles in order of success

Playstation 2
Xbox
Gamecube.

Previous gen consoles in order of power and technology

Gamecube
Xbox
Playstation 2

Any hardware buff is well-aware of these facts. May I point out other technologically sound but still glorious failures such as the Dreamcast and Saturn? Technology is meaningless for several reasons.

1) Console gamers buy consoles in order to play games (shockingly enough). The console with the most killer-apps and popular franchises will win the day. How many terraflops the console can put out is irrelevant to the average consumer.

2) Powerful technology does not neccessarily mean ‘easy to develop for’. Development houses have limited budgets and staff. They will not sit around banging their heads against an infuriating piece of hardware if they can develop for something simpler. Ask anyone that has attempted to develop for a Saturn with it’s nightmare architecture and you’ll know exactly of what I speak.

3) The HD format war is not yet decided, nor may it be in the forseeable future. HD is currently a seriously minority market. Current market analysis for Europe indicates that the majority will own an HD device by 2012 (currenlty it is just 8% in Europe) That’s a long way away in the great scheme of things and more than long enough for a format to die a death. Without an HD display device, as you are no doubt I would hope aware, HD-DVD and Blu-ray are meaningless. The console war will not be decided on the basis of these formats.

It is also of note to point out that when the 360 was released, the HDMI standard was not yet complete. It is unwise to integrate an unfinished standard into an expensive piece of hardware and while I freely admit that the 360 has some serious hardware issues and was rushed out, it does not stop the consumer from utilising their rights and having the unit replaced. Be it on Microsoft’s head and bottomless wallet.

To sum up. The technology argument will win you no points with the gamer in the know. History has proved time and again that if technology and processing power were the deciding factors, then we’d all be playing on our Atari Jaguar’s and RISC-OS compatible StrongARM PCs, and the PSP would have crushed the DS in the handheld war, which it has universally failed to do.

Here’s a view on the ‘Tokyo Front” of the console wars. There IS one aspect that hasn’t hit the US or European markets yet, and that is the use of Wii / DS for non-game purposes.
There have been many new softwares for self-learning, brain training, even cooking recipes, opening whole new market sectors such as the elderly, housewives, and even middle-aged men. What this means is that Wii is fast becoming a console for the whole household, not just the kids…. the VERY thing that Microsoft want Xbox360 to become.

Also, the prevailing Japanese attitude towards the next-gen disk war is “Why bother? DVD is good enough”, as you really need an HDTV to tell the difference between DVD and the Next Gen, and the format war is putting off many people here altogether.

@ TotalBiscuit

That was my whole point originally in a few lines which took you an essay. A lot more factors need to be considered before you can say anything. Not just technology and processing power.

My personal opinion is Sony will rise on top in the end eventually due to the fact that technology is rapidly changing, people are adapting more to change than ever before and HDTV prices are falling at faster rates than ever.

As for Gamecube and its technological prowess, if it cant play a DVD, its not getting very far in its generation. Just like they did not adapt to change and failed, so will Microsoft. Ofcourse, they realize this and which is why they have released the seperate HD-DVD player for 299.00 USD which sums the total value of the 360 at Seven Hundred Dollars.

Hmmm.. my two cents worth. Firstly the points:
- Japan is not important in size of market (it’s perception)
- Most people only buy one console, those with more brag louder ;-)
- Xbox 360 wins the high-end short term market, as it has games unlike PS3
- Wii will win the volume market as you ‘average’ consumer wants a fun cheap console, remember in a lot of cases mummy & daddy buy these things
- people who don’t have a home PC would really like a webrowser

Microsoft made a clever move by getting out early to get market penatration but its shortcomings and the Wii will hit it mid-term with PS3 dominating (if the games come) in the long term. My friends & I were thinking about a 360 but we’re all waiting for the chips to be shrunk (lower power, etc..) before buying one. Our problems our:
- 360 exclusives are coming to PC ‘lost planet’ etc.. (& we have PCs)
- I want to buy and all-in-one, no extra Wi-Fi adapter, no external HD-DVD drive, etc..
- I would like to use the console to Web browse
- If you support keyboard and mouse, then I & other gamers will see this as a FPS console, which is important

So basically once the PS3 has a die shrink, better firmware & more games, we will buy. And I think in 2 years or so Wii owners with HDTVs and RSI from the nunchuck will follow.

“As for Gamecube and its technological prowess, if it cant play a DVD, its not getting very far in its generation”

The Gamecube was
1. The Previous Generation
2. Used smaller discs and was thus unable to play DVD’s. Mainly an anti-piracy attempt from Nintendo (that worked!) but also to decrease load times.
3. Not as powerful as the Xbox.

On the Subject of the Dreamcast being a total failure, whilst it did fail in the mainstream market due to a certain Playstation 2 on the Horizon, ask any seasoned gamer over 21 and they will likely say that the Dreamcast is one of the greatest consoles ever made.
And did you know that Sega only stopped manufacturing them last month? It lasted 9 years!

The 360 Elite is a waste of time however as it is just a Premium 360 painted black with a larger HDD. It doesnt have the HD-DVD drive and it still has the worst GUI of the present consoles.

it states that the 360 has already bested the ps3.
it clearly hasnt :s.
the ps3 wave has only just begun.
i find it amausing that they say this since the console has been around for at least a year and a bit.
and it also says the 360 is the ultimate home entertainment machine.
i laugh at that.
its taken then at least a year and a bit to get it to what it is now and stil doesnt compare ro the ps3. yeah sure the ps3 atm doesnt have some formats that allow playback but give it a month and it will have full functionality and already a web browser ;).

sorry but the 360 will deplete in numbers very soon.
because of sales, and the facts that more n more of 360’s are breaking down every day.
my brothers 360 broke yest.
i laughed.
they rushed it, and look wot apend.

The quality of the games will decide which console sells more.

The PS2 was a huge success but mainly down to a handful of high quality games franchises coming out on it first. If you take away GTA, GT and MGS from the PS2 it would not have sold as well.

MS will probably close the gap with the 360 as it has been out longer, however i would think the PS3 will eventually retake its crown when the big games start coming out.

It was well documented that each xbox was sold at a huge loss, but MS did this in order to break into the market. Im not sure if this is happening with the 360 or not but they now have a strong market share and will not have the huge startup costs from entering the industry.

The Wii is fun but after playing one i cant help feel there is somewhat of a novelty factor attached.

Bought the original Xbox only because of Halo. Great! entirely happy with it had it 3 years only just got rid of it cos games not sold in shops any more. My son bought a gamecube last year hardly ever plays it cos again no games in shops. Both consoles excellent graphics. I am sure PS3 (way overpriced!) and Xbox 360 both do a good job in their own way but the deciding factor for me is not the technology but affordability offset against how long am I going to keep it. This also being dependant on how long being able to get new games before some new console makes this one obsolete.

Some people here don’t know what they’re on about. The 360 has sold more units than any other. None of the consoles are profitable - these companies profit from the games rather than systems. True that perhaps today the forcasts as they are do not look good, but wait until most of the good games are out. Halo 3 will be a bigger seller than Gears of War, the most succesful brand of the new generation. GTA4 will be out for both the 360 and PS3. Other games will come in time. As for who is ahead of whom, 360 is way ahead of the PS3, not only for the costs but also for the ease of programming, it’s multiplayer functions (Live service), units sold, and of course the most popular games.

The biggest selling point for the PS3 was the superior graphics, something that hasn’t materialised at all yet. In fact in some cross-platform games, the 360 is the clear winner. I suspect that will change when the developers will get to grips with the difficult design of the PS3, but it may be too late by then. Ironically enough, the most critisised aspect of the PS3, the Blu-Ray may just save it from utter failure as most of the film industry vowed to use it exclusivly against the HD-DVD. Funnily enough though, Microsoft has not made a similar commitement to the HD-DVD and stated that if it’s what people want they will make the Blu-Ray aviable to them just like the HD drive is now.

My 2 cents worth here…I normally do not follow this website or analysis here and there, but I saw some comments that should not be in the format they are.

Living in Europe, I have seen the European consumers attitude towards consoles. Currently, PS3 does not appeal to the wider audience.

PS3 in Europe at least is massively, massively overpriced (Sony’s decision to “equalize” prices between Euros / USD $ has brought the price over 25-30% up compared to other markets), lacks PS2 compatibility for “cost reasons” with EE+GS removed from the EU version, and does not exactly perform admirably in sales. Initially, over 800,000 consoles were sold, for the loyal Sony fanbase. Then, the sales dropped over 80%.

In the Wii camp, the console is still hard to find in most European countries, and has set some unprecedented sales records in individual countries that indicate consumers liking its innovative features and / or its price point, two things that it inevitably has.

In the 360 camp, several people have bought it and enjoy it, Xbox Live is branded well enough and penetrates most broadband-enabled homes, and its no longer “the poor relative of Sony”.

Amazingly enough, the barebones cost of a Wii + Xbox360 is the one of a barebones PS3 in Europe. As such, even “financially comfortable” people opted to have two consoles instead of one, and do not care.

Finally, HDTV has a much, much slower uptake in Europe compared to US or other markets, and most countries do not properly support HDTV channels yet, with only 1-2 pilot channels being available. This is poised to change by 2012 when digital transmission becomes compulsory, but certainly not before 2008-9. This renders many of the “HDTV era” advantages very premature.

All in all, it’s not a won game for Sony as it was with the PS2, and I would be surprised to see them maintain the #1 position with this attitude, pricing policy, and marketing losses (”exclusive” titles not-so-exclusive anymore - see football (soccer) games in Europe!)

These discussions are great…

Personally, i have a 360, it has never failed me unlike many of my friends 360s (which in all have spent many months away from home being repaired), and it has totally served it’s purpose. In all it is a good console. As many have pointed out it is useless for the living room due to the excessive noise it makes, to shut it in a cabinet for noise reduction would result in overheating (as surprisingly it kicks out an awful lot more heat than my ps3 seems to)!

Oh yes, i own a ps3 as well, this lives in my living room, the only film rentals i have made recently are on Blu ray, fantastic quality, the current games are fun, especially motorstorm, if they are anything to go by then i can not wait to see what is produced a year from now, the games should be phenomenal.

As i said, my 360 has served it’s purpose, to see me through until i get a ps3. I have now not switched on my 360 for near on a month, and ebay is looming.

I did attempt to use my 360 as a media centre extender from a media centre pc, that pc died the same death that my 360 is about to, i sold it, it was useless. Amazingly i then went out and purchased my first ever apple mac, the mac mini, which incredibly was tiny, could sit in my living room without making too much noise or kicking out much heat, and front row is great, does everything much better than media centre attempted to do, and to my understanding Apple never intended to create a media computer with front row and the mac mini.

Why do ms products just come across as being so inferior, and how do they manage to steal such a vast chunk of the market? The xbox and xbox 360 are ugly beasts, media on the 360 is pointless.

1/ Is the 360 really going to win over the ps3, Hahahahahaha. (well to be honest i hope not as the ps3 totally rocks).

2/ a games console is always going to be in competition with any other games console, of course the wii is a competitor to the 360, just as it is to the ps3.

3/ 360 as a media device, not in my house, well not unless they get rid of that brick, include a built in hd dvd player (not that ugly add on), make it a bit smarter (in black is a good attempt, 360 elite, but lets face it the thing is still butt ugly), make it run quieter, and definitely make it kick out less heat.

@ Omair Aleem - What an intriguing turnabout considering the post before you were lauding the PS3’s technological prowess as the reason for it’s forthcoming ‘dominance’. Are you simply spinning around for the sake of argument or are you willing to pick a side of this particular fence?

Let me refer you to the figures that you ignored. At this point in time, only 8% of European households own an HD-TV. So that is assuming that every SINGLE one of these households (ludicriously unlikely) wishes to adopt the Blu-Ray format, that’s still a shoddy market penetration. History has also proven one rather key factor. The better format tends to lose against the cheaper one.

Examples? Sony’s very own Betamax vs VHS. Betamax, the better format. Winner? VHS. Or how about Laserdisc? Also considered the better format, far sharper picture, variety of nifty features, flopped. Funnily enough Laserdisc is also considered by some to be a superior format to DVD due to the way it uses it’s compression, avoiding such things as ‘macro-blocking’ and giving a sharper, more film-like presentation. Flopped. Need I go on?

It is foolish to judge the potential success of a console on a format that is still totally unproven. It would be safe to say that the majority of consumers are not yet ready to give up DVD, and will not be for a very long time due to the high cost of entry into the HD market. I must repeat the figures that you managed to ignore in my previous comment, analysts believe the majority will own an HD device by 2012. That’s a long, long time in the gaming industry and long enough for developers to jump ship and abandon the PS3 to it’s fate, which they are already doing with the PS3 losing the vast majority of it’s exclusives including Assassin’s Creed, GTA4, Virtua Fighter 5, Devil May Cry 4, the recent announcement by Square Enix that Final Fantasy 13 will not be a PS3 exclusive and the strong rumours circulating that Metal Gear Solid 4 will also go cross-platform. It is plain to see that there is absolutely no certain winner as of yet and the PS3 is on extremely shakey ground and is aimed at a different niche of the market than the area which allowed the PS2 it’s success, that of the casual and family gamer, a niche which the DS and Wii are attacking with gusto at present.

A few points :-

1) When are people going to realise you CAN PLUG IN A USB KEYBOARD INTO THE 360! You can use it for messaging which - with the latest upgrade incorporating integration with live messenger - is great. With the FPS adaptor you can use it along with a mouse for games too.

2) I will commend Sony a one thing at least. They have managed to convince a lot of gamers that the PS3 has a superior power advantage over the 360. Ask any game developer who has worked with both systems and they’ll tell you this is simply not the case. On paper the numbers impress, in practice, coding for modern gaming, they match up very evenly.

3) HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray. Who cares? At the moment, not many people have embraced HD and probably will not for a long time. By the time that happens, standalone players will be cheap and perform much better than the built-in Blu-Ray player in the PS3 and the HD-DVD add-on for the 360.

4) HDMI - The standard component cables with the 360 are more than good enough for HD gaming. Most people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

5) Playstaion’s online service is free! Indeed, but it is very badly implemented and is definitely not next-gen compared to Live! Leaving a lot of the decisions up to game developers has created a very strange environmeny where things like friends list behave differently from game to game. Given the amount of time Sony have had to mimic Live!, the playstation network is shocking.

In summary, both systems are going to have and play great games. There won’t be a difference in performance and graphics between the two. The difference will be in which games you prefer and which are available for each system. Sony will probably end up selling more PS3’s thanks to the brand name, but the advantage they enjoyed with the PS and PS2 is long gone.

(Don’t laugh in the next comment)

Apart from my analysis presented couple posts above, the fact that Blu-Ray snubs adult industry as Betamax once did may eventually prevent its dominance. I am being serious here…

Phasing out any part of film / entertainment industry does not help any “new formats”.

Still, my analysis stands - Seen from a European perspective, it’s a wholly different story re: consoles…

Microsoft don’t have any choice but to bleed money on consoles.

I think the console will eventually morph into the home hub entertainment system that Microsoft has to own. They own the PC and they have to own the eventual replacement.

Couple of things. The article referenced is very good. The points made in Wagner James AU’s rebuttal.

“1 – Microsoft has finally bested Sony in the console wars”

That’s one hell of a generalisation surely. What would have been more correct is Microsoft look set to best PS3 for now. But the reasons why are really obvious. PS3 costs zillions, the 360 is more reasonable. The 360 has a decent games base already, while the PS3’s “Gears of War’s” aint here yet. The PS3 (debatable) had stock shortages since the factories cant pump that many out just yet. You just can’t tell yet I’m sorry its ludicrous to reach that conclusion just yet. What the referenced article does point out though is MS are losing money on every console sold (over $100 each if i remember right). Is this really something to gloat about?

“2 – The Wii and the 360 aren’t directly competing.”

I have heard this thrown around alot but I don’t buy it. In an average household people go out and they buy a Wii or a PS3 or a 360. Unlike people who read these kind of blogs the vast majority don’t buy multiple games consoles. Not everyone can afford this stuff, count yourself lucky! People are buying Wii’s as opposed to the other consoles now. I don’t see how that isn’t competition. They may buy a 360 or PS3 one day but your talking mid-long term there. The point the article makes is IF the Wii keeps selling the way it is why will developers invest as much in the other supposedly front runners when they have a bigger market from the Wii? This ofc has a knock on effect of people buy more Wiis as theres more games for it etc…
I will agree that atm the Wii’s games base is VERY limited especially for the previous generation average western gamer. Much depends on Nintendo’s ability to make the most of the start they have and address this issue.

“3 – The 360’s a full entertainment platform.”

No doubt here the 360 has the best multimedia platform (kindly nicked from the hacking community who gave us XBMC :P) I love Arcade its all easy to use and simple. The hard drive is however too small to have it as a full media box (at least until the hackers work out how to format a standard ATA drive and bypass the MS buy our more expensive crappy proprietary drive drivel). Its also heavily tied into you already having your Windows PC tied into it (again not everyone has one of these and certainly doesn’t have the competence to link the two). Sony’s Home sounds awesome but will it have the user base by that time who knows.

What people seem to have forgotten about the Wii is who made it. Nintendo have the IP to so many arcade games its untrue. Some have started making there way now but they’ve only scratched the surface. PS3/Sony in terms of platform but Nintendo all the way for content in this niche imo.

I’m not particularly interested in the console wars and who comes out on top. I do however think Sony and Ms are turning into the film industry by pumping out endless amounts of formulaic crap in search of a hit with little variety in between. So I am biased towards the Wii atm which I’ve found to be very entertaining.

Anyway thanks for pointing me in the direction of the original article it was a good read. Time to get back to work

[...] Given that mobiles are supposedly the platform for the next billion - aka a market Microsoft has to play in - it is a surprise that Microsoft and its vast press corps failed to send us a single alert about this conference, and instead chose to spend all their attention (and some serious dollars) on MIX 07. Such apathy is contrary to the progress Microsoft has made with Windows Mobile, which is one of the two future platforms of growth for the company. (Xbox is the other.) [...]

[...] GigaOM » Hey Microsoft, forget MIX, focus on Mobiles Given that mobiles are supposedly the platform for the next billion - aka a market Microsoft has to play in - it is a surprise that Microsoft and its vast press corps failed to send us a single alert about this conference, and instead chose to spend all their attention (and some serious dollars) on MIX 07. Such apathy is contrary to the progress Microsoft has made with Windows Mobile, which is one of the two future platforms of growth for the company. (Xbox is the other.) [...]

Vista Media Center requires a V2 Extender to allow for entertainment delivery. Xbox 360 is the only current V2 Extender.

I own most consols, yes.
Personaly, I prefer Nintendo consols over all.
Nintendo is definatly on my toplist, while second is Sony, and MS is…. well, I wouldn’t even bother.

Like most people say, the Xbox was rushed into the market too soon. It’s a hassle, honestly.

Sony has always tried to get the best games with their consol. (My favorite game company would have to be Square Enix. They only have one game out for gamecube, and the rest are for ps2, etc.)

Nintendo was, and will always be, my favorite. Take the Wii, for example. It’s fun. Period.
The kids love it, and it’s great for the family.

Alternative gaming definatly over rules better graphics.

Not satisfied? Well, what else can you expect from a 14 year-old girl? You’re lucky I understand a bit of the marketing that you are all talking about.

If it’s true, of what some of you say, MS is going way downhill.
Kids want videogames that are fun. Not fancy.
(…Unless if fun and fancy can become combined together and still be avordable…)
The majority of wealth in families is not that very high. Like someone else, here, said that the parents would buy the more affordable one.
Nintendo made fun gaming very affordable when it comes to the Wii.
MS made the Xbox360 very… unessicary. But not completely, though! I enjoy playing it, every once in a while! It&#